Sam Mitchell coaching thread

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m4gor [enjin:6667447]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by m4gor [enjin:6667447] »

Yo guys more i watch Celtics more i think our next coach should some young talented guy and not some recycled old one, i mean we are not winning championship in next two years anyway so we could try to swing with somebody like Brad Stevens, give him 2 year contract and if it does not work we can still go for some proven one

Celtics have their coach for next decade or two, what Stevens does with talent level he has there is amazing, i mean you are not signing coach this good on open market, great coaches are staying in good organization who values them more than players, like Pop, Carlisle or Spoelstra
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thedoper
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by thedoper »

m4gor wrote:Yo guys more i watch Celtics more i think our next coach should some young talented guy and not some recycled old one, i mean we are not winning championship in next two years anyway so we could try to swing with somebody like Brad Stevens, give him 2 year contract and if it does not work we can still go for some proven one

Celtics have their coach for next decade or two, what Stevens does with talent level he has there is amazing, i mean you are not signing coach this good on open market, great coaches are staying in good organization who values them more than players, like Pop, Carlisle or Spoelstra


Hoiberg was supposed to be that for us I guess. I like your thinking here, but the question becomes who fits that bill.
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WildWolf2813
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by WildWolf2813 »

I think it's pointless to discuss potential coaches. I don't think Sam's going anywhere. The players love him. KG looks up to him, and if the team is gonna continue to close ranks the way they have and be completely insular, then the players as a collective will have a loud say in terms of keeping him around. Milt won't give him the boot; any potential big name coach will want Sam's job AND his. Glen won't opt for complete inexperience; he's too mentally scarred to go down that road. When this team doesn't think outside the box, they'll keep doing what they're doing.

Sam sucks at coach, but I'm resigned to the idea that this team will have to win despite the coach's efforts.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Lipoli390 »

WildWolf2813 wrote:I think it's pointless to discuss potential coaches. I don't think Sam's going anywhere. The players love him. KG looks up to him, and if the team is gonna continue to close ranks the way they have and be completely insular, then the players as a collective will have a loud say in terms of keeping him around. Milt won't give him the boot; any potential big name coach will want Sam's job AND his. Glen won't opt for complete inexperience; he's too mentally scarred to go down that road. When this team doesn't think outside the box, they'll keep doing what they're doing.

Sam sucks at coach, but I'm resigned to the idea that this team will have to win despite the coach's efforts.


Wild -- I'd like to argue with you, but it's pretty hard to refute your points given what we know about Glen and the history of this organization. But I'll say there is a chance Sam loses the players late this season. At some point players get tired of losing. If players on a losing team come to believe that their coach is not putting them in the best possible position to succeed and isn't listening to them, then they will rebel. That's what happened to Sam in Toronto. But I'm not counting on Glen to make the right decision.
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m4gor [enjin:6667447]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by m4gor [enjin:6667447] »

lipoli390 wrote:
WildWolf2813 wrote:I think it's pointless to discuss potential coaches. I don't think Sam's going anywhere. The players love him. KG looks up to him, and if the team is gonna continue to close ranks the way they have and be completely insular, then the players as a collective will have a loud say in terms of keeping him around. Milt won't give him the boot; any potential big name coach will want Sam's job AND his. Glen won't opt for complete inexperience; he's too mentally scarred to go down that road. When this team doesn't think outside the box, they'll keep doing what they're doing.

Sam sucks at coach, but I'm resigned to the idea that this team will have to win despite the coach's efforts.


Wild -- I'd like to argue with you, but it's pretty hard to refute your points given what we know about Glen and the history of this organization. But I'll say there is a chance Sam loses the players late this season. At some point players get tired of losing. If players on a losing team come to believe that their coach is not putting them in the best possible position to succeed and isn't listening to them, then they will rebel. That's what happened to Sam in Toronto. But I'm not counting on Glen to make the right decision.


You guys are probably right, but i can still dream :-). Btw. Sam is still interim to my knowledge, maybe there are really some negotiations about minority shares coming on, would make sense if POBO->coach positions would be part of that.

Also for example whole Kahn gambit was like hundred times more risky and outside of box and Glen did that anyway. Signing experienced POBO and giving chance to young coach with some body of work behind him in NCAA or elsewhere, not that risky.
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Tactical unit
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Tactical unit »

longstrangetrip wrote:
Tactical unit wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:I think everyone here agrees on a couple things.

1) Flip Saunders assembled an intriguing squad of young talent that has the potential to be very good.

2) in addition, since the Wolves were not a major player in the free agency market this year, we will be well-positioned to be active in free agency over the next few years as needed. Much of our young talent is on rookie contracts, and expensive vets like KG, Pek and KMart have contracts that soon expire.

Given that positive situation, having the right coach to get the most out of this talented group is going to be essential. And there is broad range of opinions about what we need in a head coach. I don't have a name in mind, but here are the criteria I need:

1) A defensive mindset. I want a guy who knows defense wins championships, stresses defense from day 1 in practice, and can show immediate improvement in team defense.

2) A history of overachieving, both as a player and as a coach. For example, a player who despite being picked in the third round of the NBA draft, went on to finish in the top three all-time in many categories for his franchise. Or a coach who won 48 games with a roster that looked a lot like the 76ers' roster this year.

3) While I don't need an offensive genius, it would be good to have a coach who was effective in designing plays during time outs...say, a guy that has his team in the top five in scoring out of time outs.

4) A guy with several years of experience as both a head and assistant coach, but still young enough to have the requisite energy needed to be an NBA coach.

5)And although this may be asking too much because there aren't many coaches who meet this criteria, it would be great if he had at least one year in which he was named NBA Coach of the Year. Nah, forget about that one...too limiting because there just aren't many coaches who have been COY but are still young enough to coach

6) A coach who is both hard-nosed, but fair, and has his players solidly behind him...veterans and rookies.

7) A coach who is willing to be flexible with such a young team in trying different combinations in an effort to find the best mix, even if hos experimentation results in the fan base questioning the consistency of his rotations.

It's probably asking too much, but that is what I'm looking for. Now, if only there was a guy out there who met a few of my criteria. Hmm...


God you love Sam (PUKE)


Hmm...I hadn't thought about Sam but you make a great point, tactical...Sam Mitchell does meet all the criteria I laid out above. Great call!

I think any fan who has been passionate about the Wolves since day 1 in the Metrodome loves Sam Mitchell, TU. KG is clearly Mr. Timberwolf, but Flip and Sam are 2a and 2b based on their performance and longevity. And I admit the "I'm so much smarter than Sam" arrogance that permeates most message boards annoys me at times. It's like posters think he experienced a full lobotomy since he was named Coach of the Year less then 10 years ago, and is no longer capable of making proper coaching decisions! Criticizing a coach's moves is what we do as fans. I criticize something any Wolves coach does every game...Sam's starting Martin over Prince, for instance, is a move I don't support, and just like I criticize the arrogance of some anti-Sam posts here, I have criticized Sam's arrogance in dismissing reporters' post-game questions. Both attitudes bug me. But the criticism of Sam seems to me to often go outside the bounds of normal questioning of coaching moves, and seems based on factors other than actual performance at times.


As a coach Sam doesn't seem to be developing our talent and while you might say it's early I combine that with what I see from the team. Lack of consistency, coming out flat, playing to the level of competition and barley beating LA twice, and also one win 76ers. Seeing ATL comeback from an NBA history type of lead to actually take a lead though we won that one and most recent allowing the DEN comeback.

This is all his body of work and a reflection of his coaching. I'd really like for him to be better as a coach but I don't see it. To many times I have seen this team needing a stop at the end of a game and Martin is on the floor. If he wants this team to progress it starts with developing the young talent which means they play big minutes and the success and improvement they show will determine how good we are both this year and for years to come.

I loved Sam I Am as a player with the silky baseline jumper :)

As a coach he seems to have his players behind him that's a plus. Will Sam develop as a coach and also develop his long term players? I'd hope so but what I have seen thus far displays no indication of that and I am basing that off of the performance to date. Maybe it's worth mentioning those performances again Lack of consistency, coming out flat, playing to the level of competition and barley beating LA twice, and also one win 76ers. Seeing ATL comeback from an NBA history type of lead to actually take a lead though we won that one and most recent allowing the DEN comeback.

How long will you back those type of outcomes?
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

Good post, tactical unit...you make some valid points. I'm also frustrated with the blown leads...we could easily have 3-5 wins now if we could have held on to those double digit leads. But I evaluate a coach primarily on whether I think he is over or underachieving, and I think Sam is doing what he has done consistently done in his coaching career...overachieving. The wolves are almost certain to finish with more wins than a lot of smart people here predicted and way more than Vegas forecast, and Sam's emphasis on defense and teaching is a big part of this. I've said this before, but you only have to look at the ridiculously inadequate roster he led to 48 wins in his COY year to understand the positive impact Sam can have on a team.

Ultimately you win with players, and we all know that the "experience level" of most of the Wolves' roster is not ideal. It's well documented that NBA players reach their peak 6-8 years into their career, and the Wolves have very few players in that category (in fact, maybe none). Instead Sam's go-to guys are either in their first three years or in the twilight of their careers. And despite that disadvantage, Sam has this club 1 game out of the playoffs 1/4 of the way into the season...that's overachieving. We're going to continue to lose a lot of games down the stretch because we will often have three or more near-teenagers on the court at the end of games, and as we saw last night, veterans are generally going to outplay rookies when the game is on the line. Flip has built a roster with enormous potential...yes, even championship potential...but even Pop isn't going to win consistently relying on a mix of guys who are either 20 or 40!

Sure, I'm frustrated too...I'm a fan of a team which has been out of the playoffs for far too long. But I don't think many of us had this unseasoned roster a game out of the playoffs in mid-December, and some of that credit has to go to Sam.
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Carlos Danger
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Carlos Danger »

I'm neutral on Sam. I really don't care because I feel at the end of the day who's coaching provided the results are there. I still think this team is performing better than many thought it would. We have 9 Wins. It took us until February to get that many last year. To me, the key going forward is to see continued progress. If we slump or fade as the year goes on, then he doesn't deserve to keep his job. But IF the team shows steady improvement - it certainly wouldn't make sense to switch coaches IMO.

Flip brought Sam over to be part of his staff. Now Sam has to walk the line between Flip's vision (and Flip's assistants) vs. his own vision/assistants. I assume that adds a little to the difficulty factor for the time being. We'll see. But at the end of the day, I think results will determine things as they should.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

Carlos Danger wrote:I'm neutral on Sam. I really don't care because I feel at the end of the day who's coaching provided the results are there. I still think this team is performing better than many thought it would. We have 9 Wins. It took us until February to get that many last year. To me, the key going forward is to see continued progress. If we slump or fade as the year goes on, then he doesn't deserve to keep his job. But IF the team shows steady improvement - it certainly wouldn't make sense to switch coaches IMO.

Flip brought Sam over to be part of his staff. Now Sam has to walk the line between Flip's vision (and Flip's assistants) vs. his own vision/assistants. I assume that adds a little to the difficulty factor for the time being. We'll see. But at the end of the day, I think results will determine things as they should.


Your assessment pretty much sums up where I am with Sam, Anthony. I defend him passionately here, but mostly to provide some balance on this board. I find the overall intensity of the criticism for a coach who inherited a roster primarily composed of players well before or well after their prime to be absurdly unfair...especially when he is on pace to more than double last year's win total despite that unbalanced roster. But despite my defense of Sam, I agree that the results will determine the correct course of action...and should. If he is somehow able to steal 39 wins out of this roster and make the playoffs (39 being the current projection of wins for the 8th place team), it would be difficult if not impossible to have any discussions about letting him go. And even if he continues at the pace he is on now and they win 33 games, I think it would be unprecedented for a coach to be fired after more than doubling the prior year's win total. Maybe a combo of an 18-win improvement and continued surliness with the press (he reverted a little last night, I thought) might be enough for Glen to make a move.

My guess? This young team continues to improve the rest of the year (as young teams generally do) and an upper 30s win total earns Sam another year. But I think he may need a first round playoff victory to keep his job in 2017.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

He hasn't overachieved with this roster. Sure, the on paper pre-season version of this team makes this look like he's overachieving. The reality is Towns is way better out of the gate than anyone could have predicted and Wiggins is scoring over 20 PPG's which not many if any thought he'd be doing. Sam has two borderline, but deserving all-stars on this team and yet he continues to not feature Towns as much as he should and he continues to rely very heavily on the likes of Martin and Prince to win him games when they combined have win us what? 2 games? I think this team has underachieved based on how good Towns and Wiggins already are combined with Lavine's improvement and Ricky only missing 6 games. If this team has any semblance of an offensive system those comebacks don't happen, but the offense gets stagnant and second unit defense can't stop anything and the leads disappear fast and in a hurry and he doesn't use timeouts or sub to do anything to stop the other teams momentum and by the time he does it's too late. His coaching tactics have this team underperforming based on the talent. Simple as that.
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