Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:LOL...

PS. Future -- If I am not mistaken, Thibs has not made a single off-season move you like!

I'm not quite 100% Future, but I'm probably 50% (taking a page out of the old Porkchop metric on how down folks were on Rubio).

While I think this team is improved for sure, I think Thibs fell asleep during "Roster Construction 101", one of the prerequisites to becoming an NBA GM.

I don't know, Q. No move is going to please everybody. Heck, even Future is put off by the Butler trade!

Thibs seems very organized and methodical about how he approaches anything. And when he does reveal his thoughts, he seems to be honest. What were the things he said they need to address this offseason? Toughness, defense, rim protection and shooting.

If you really think about those things and assume they don't just apply to the bench, where does that lead you in regards to the starting lineup? Well, Butler, Wiggins and KAT are fixtures, so that leaves Rubio and Dieng as candidates to upgrade/change. If you can accept that premise, then those two positions are clearly your top priority in free agency.

Rubio for Teague has been debated here ad nauseam. Monster and I feel this move will be regarded as a home run once the season gets under way. Others are more skeptical. Either way, if changing the flavor at point is a priority, Thibs wasted no time making the move he wanted.

Signing Taj Gibson has also been controversial. But if you accept the original premise of needing something else at PF, what do you do? We clearly pursued Milsap first. But the 30 mil per year territory cut that short. Thibs made a comment in his presser that most fans do not appreciate: when communicating with FAs, you need to know how quickly they plan to make a decision. Taj had several offers and was ready to make his decision. Thibs either makes an offer to get him, or moves on to Plan C (or whatever plan he was down to). Some people thought a play for Patrick Patterson would have been better, especially at the $s he signed for. But we are talking about our starting lineup that already has four guys who can create shots and score. Taj is a starting PF, Patrick is not. Taj checks 3 of those 4 boxes. Yeah, Thibs sacrificed cap space for bench players, but he got the guy he believes pushes his starting lineup into a top 10 defense.

And the latest signing is Jamal Crawford. While I like the signing, I see reasons why his fit can be questioned. I believe this one also comes down to timing -- make your play for Crawford now, or he is signing with someone else. Thibs has commented on several occasions how he likes guys with playoffs and big games under their belt. Crawford certainly has that, and adds some "credibility" to our bench -- something we did not have last year.

Anyway, we will clearly be adding 3 more players in the near future. 4 if we move Cole Aldrich. Who knows what the hold up is on CJ Miles. Thibs could be holding out on the 1st round pick. Or CJ could be holding out to see if other offers come his way. Building a roster is a process. And I am not finding fault with how Thibs is proceeding thus far.

Q12543 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Is anyone else hoping Thibs exploits matchups in the post with KAT, Wigs, or Butler? I'm ok with three points the old fashioned way.

Post ups are an overrated form of offense unless you are absolutely elite at it (KAT is elite) or the mis-match is so big that you can just throw the ball over the top for an easy layup (like when a guard gets switched onto a big). Teams will gladly allow Butler and Wiggins to shoot contested turnaround 2-point jumpers. That's why we don't see many teams do it anymore.

Hmm I think that if this team is going to stay away from 3 point shooting, which our personnel choices suggest, and instead control pace they should be taking advantage of the physical abilities on the wing. I'm not talking about everytime down the floor like Shaq but Thibs should pick good spots and exploit matchups. I don't like the idea of jacking up 3s all night because that's what the league is doing.

I'll add that there were many many many games last season in which a KAT or Wiggins post up would have killed some serious droughts. In their stead we got a lot of poor jumpers and a ton of lost leads.

TheFuture wrote:Crawford 4 years ago? Awesome! Crawford today? Money could have been better spent...

He's a sixth man of yesteryear. Not LAST year. Fuck these last two signings. As CoolBreeze would say ... screw just accepting everything blindly. When do we go full pitchfork rather than explaining ourselves into being convinced??

How about the team plays a few games before going full pitchfork?

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Crawford's name recognition is better than his actual game at this point. He's a low-efficiency volume shooter, that yes, can create a shot when the offense breaks down and you need someone to get a shot off. But with Teague/Butler/Wiggins/KAT, do we really need another shot creator on the team?

He can handle the ball and pass, but he and Tyus in the backcourt are going to be BRUTAL defensively.

I think they wanted a bucket getter off the bench. Is he the best no but I think he is the best bucket getter left.

I like the signing. If we get miles without a first I will give the offseason a A

If we get Miles, I'll certainly feel better.

I actually didn't think a shot creator was as much of a need given the fact we have four starters that were all #1 or #2 options last year. With that many scorers, we can always have at least one or two on the floor at all times.

I'd much rather have a low mistake catch-and-shoot 3-baller that can also play passable defense. Hell, I might even prefer Thabo Sefolosha because he can defend, rebound, get deflections, and is OK-ish from 3.

Q - The player you described is Aaron Afflalo. A low mistake non-volume 3-point shooter who can defend. But otherwise, I'm all in on signing Thabo to the vet minimum if that's possible. Butler should be lobbying him to come here.

Arron Afflalo isn't the same player he used. His defense has decline tremendously.

But the 32 year old Afflalo is still a better defender than the 37 year old Crawford has ever been. And he remains a more efficient shooter, both inside and outside the arc.

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Is anyone else hoping Thibs exploits matchups in the post with KAT, Wigs, or Butler? I'm ok with three points the old fashioned way.

Post ups are an overrated form of offense unless you are absolutely elite at it (KAT is elite) or the mis-match is so big that you can just throw the ball over the top for an easy layup (like when a guard gets switched onto a big). Teams will gladly allow Butler and Wiggins to shoot contested turnaround 2-point jumpers. That's why we don't see many teams do it anymore.

Hmm I think that if this team is going to stay away from 3 point shooting, which our personnel choices suggest, and instead control pace they should be taking advantage of the physical abilities on the wing. I'm not talking about everytime down the floor like Shaq but Thibs should pick good spots and exploit matchups. I don't like the idea of jacking up 3s all night because that's what the league is doing.

How does adding 3 league average 3pt shooters signal that we are abandoning the 3pt shot? We added guys who can hit an open 3 when our penetrators pull the extra defender and kick out to the 3pt line. That's what a normal NBA offense looks like. The 3pt hunting by Houston and GS aren't normal.

60WinTim wrote:LOL...

PS. Future -- If I am not mistaken, Thibs has not made a single off-season move you like!

That's correct, I have not liked a single move. I accept the Butler trade, and realize that we did come out winning that trade. Didn't like it at first, have slightly warmed up to it. But I firmly believe we come out in 2-3 years regretting this route.

The subsequent Ricky deal, that was made "necessary" because of the Butler trade,I didn't and don't like. Again, I understand why Thibs made the deal, but it wasn't "necessary". When you dig into Teague you will find that his outside shooting is also a question mark. Which is the reason we targeted him, yes? Where he makes his money is in the mid range (kind of like Ricky) in the pick and roll, but I thought the idea was to have the ball in Butlers hands? So he is slightly better at outside shootinging than Ricky. Yet, he is nowhere near the gifted passer or defender that Ricky is. It isn't even a lateral move, it was a downgrade for 5mil more, for a season more. Look at all the advanced sites and they tout Ricky as a borderline allstar entering his prime, and Teague as a league average point guard.

The Taj Gibson signing was terrible. Complete bullshit. Spin it whatever way you want, but it is not a good signing. Butler called Taj, wanted him. Thibs called Taj, wanted him. Taj got paid. Another country club move.

Jamal Crawford is not what we needed with our RE. Is he a terrible player? No. But he isn't very good anymore. He is a ballstopper. We needed a defender or sharpshooter with that exception. He is neither. Thibs is going to be staggering our "big 4". They will have the ball in their hands. Crawford needs the ball to be effective. Again, 41% and 35% are his career averages. At the minimum? Sure, sign him. With our only exception and chance at signing someone without a trade? Hell no. He's an end of the bench guy, not a sixth man anymore. Shabazz should have been kept instead.

As you can see, I do not like any of the deals. Only the Butler trade is impactful. The rest are lateral or negative. There is too much praise around here just because moves are being made. I argue that none of them are the correct move.

I like the signing more so if they consider Crawford the #3 PG (in terms of depth chart). Then they can focus on signing a couple 3 & D types or maybe flipping Cole for one.

TheGrey08 wrote:I like the signing more so if they consider Crawford the #3 PG (in terms of depth chart). Then they can focus on signing a couple 3 & D types or maybe flipping Cole for one.

So would I. The reality? We just used up our exception. We now have no money, no exception. Our route to filling those spots at the wing would be only vet. minimums or forcing a cole trade. It is not a good position to be in.

TheFuture wrote:

TheGrey08 wrote:I like the signing more so if they consider Crawford the #3 PG (in terms of depth chart). Then they can focus on signing a couple 3 & D types or maybe flipping Cole for one.

So would I. The reality? We just used up our exception. We now have no money, no exception. Our route to filling those spots at the wing would be only vet. minimums or forcing a cole trade. It is not a good position to be in.

Yeah I agree. We would be in a much better position if Taj would have signed for 10m per. Makes me wonder if they even pitched building a good bench and winning with Taj & Teague.