Minnesota Sports Forum

SameOldDrew wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I like the signing. I didn't think Aldrich being our 4th big was very good, so Taj adds much needed depth, and may even earn a starting position. A bonus is he knows Thibs and his system.

But we still have zero backup wings. I guess that is where the Room exception will be used, and then a roster filled out with vet minimum guys.

So right now, here's our depth chart, as best I can tell:

Teague/Tyus
Wiggins/
Butler/
Taj/Belly/Payne
Towns/Gorgui/Aldrich/Patton

Whoa! Belly can probably play a little 3 when needed, but it's clear where we need the depth. We could match Bazz, but the dude can't shoot threes, so I'd let him walk.

Ok, let's pencil Patton in for the G league all year. Payne is just bench insurance. We really need to find a taker for Aldrich, because that's wasted money on this roster, and it would give us (7 million?) more flexibility to add a great shooter on the wing.

Thibs is going to play only 6 or 7 guys big minutes, and maybe only an 8 man rotation overall, so I think it's more important that we get the best possible backup wing with the biggest chunk of our money left, and fill in the rest with vet mins.

Assuming we can dump Aldrich, does that mean we'd have both 7 million PLUS the MLE? I don't understand how the cap works at this point. Can somebody help me out?

We have no MLE and minimal to no cap space at this point. We have to pull Bazz's QO to sign Gibson. We have a room exception which is like 3 million and minimum deals. So dumping Aldrich would open up 7 million, but who are you signing for 7 million that is that much better than the 3 million dollar guy and likely the first round pick you have to ship out with Aldrich to move him? That guy may be out there, but you'd have to have him lined up before dumping the first round pick with Aldrich.

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:He's a way better fit with KAT and G or Belly. We needed an improvement at the 4 one way or another. He may not be a starter on every team in the league but he certainly will adapt what we can do with G. This move is a solid B, and in a world where there were no As left Im happy with it.

I think I'm almost with you...B- may be. He's a plus defender, but not a game-changing defender. He won't make dumb mistakes and knows his own limits. He and Butler's biggest impact on defense is setting the tone and somehow coaxing better defense and connectedness with the other three guys (KAT, Wig, and Teague). We'll see....Thibs now has "his guys" in here to show the way. We'll see if everyone else follows.

Offensively, yes his 2-point efficiency isn't bad but overall he has an outdated, inefficient offensive game. He doesn't stretch the floor and doesn't get to the line, so his TS% is actually quite mediocre.

Good analysis, Q. But I think a B- is charitable. I'd give Thibs a C- on this when considering the way the game is played today, our needs (3-point shooting, back-up wings), where Taj is at in his career (not the player he once was), what we're paying him, and other FAs available on the market.

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I hate the signing. Thibs just blew the rest of our cap space on a backup PF on the backside of his career who can't stretch the floor. With our cap space gone we haven't improve our 3-point shooting at all.

Weren't you just upset earlier this morning because Thibs didn't blow it all on PJ Tucker? Thibs just can't win with you sometimes lol

No Bloop. Once again, you have your facts wrong. I was never advocating that we sign Tucker, although I think he would have been a better signing than Taj for $14 million because he can shoot threes and fill in our gaping hole on the bench at the wing position. If you've been reading carefully, you may have noticed that I've been lamenting not getting Snell and Ingles and that I wanted us to consider signing Collison and/or CJ Miles to add 3-point shooting.

gosh here's a post where you are already freaking out about us not signing PJ Tucker? Guess I just have my facts wrong though lol

"I just saw that, Wild. They used the MLE of $8.4 million per year to sign him. This confirms that the Wolves didn't pursue him because we could have easily outbid the Rockets.

Here's my question for you and anyone else out there. Does the Wolves front office have any plan beyond trading for Butler and effectively swapping Ricky for Teague?

We saw reports the Wolves were pursuing Redick and Millsap. One is a 3-point sniper, the other isn't. Each represents a very different path. Obviously we weren't going to get both since either one would have consumed all our remaining cap space. In fact, it was unrealistic to think we could sign either of those two with only around $15 million cap space left. Thibs has talked repeatedly about the compelling need to upgrade our 3-point shooting, but he traded our best 3-point shooter, LaVine, and hasn't added any upper eschelon 3-point shooters to the roster. There were no reports of the Wolves pursuing two attractive 3-point shooting RFAs, Snell and Ingles, who have both now re-signed with their current teams. Thibs talked about the need to add toughness, yet it appears he made no effort to sign what we now know would have been a very affordable PJ Tucker. I'm confused, but perhaps I'm just easily confused.

The next few days will be critical in determining whether the Wolves can fill in our disturbingly thin bench with enough quality rotation players to be a legitimate upper tier team."

short memory? you do seems to flip your positions every other day though so I understand, I mean come on you're pissy that Thibs talked about toughness and didn't add it, now he adds it hours laterand you're still pissy? You think Thibs walked into this after Butler without a plan now? jesus dude

khans2k5 wrote:

SameOldDrew wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I like the signing. I didn't think Aldrich being our 4th big was very good, so Taj adds much needed depth, and may even earn a starting position. A bonus is he knows Thibs and his system.

But we still have zero backup wings. I guess that is where the Room exception will be used, and then a roster filled out with vet minimum guys.

So right now, here's our depth chart, as best I can tell:

Teague/Tyus
Wiggins/
Butler/
Taj/Belly/Payne
Towns/Gorgui/Aldrich/Patton

Whoa! Belly can probably play a little 3 when needed, but it's clear where we need the depth. We could match Bazz, but the dude can't shoot threes, so I'd let him walk.

Ok, let's pencil Patton in for the G league all year. Payne is just bench insurance. We really need to find a taker for Aldrich, because that's wasted money on this roster, and it would give us (7 million?) more flexibility to add a great shooter on the wing.

Thibs is going to play only 6 or 7 guys big minutes, and maybe only an 8 man rotation overall, so I think it's more important that we get the best possible backup wing with the biggest chunk of our money left, and fill in the rest with vet mins.

Assuming we can dump Aldrich, does that mean we'd have both 7 million PLUS the MLE? I don't understand how the cap works at this point. Can somebody help me out?

We have no MLE and minimal to no cap space at this point. We have to pull Bazz's QO to sign Gibson. We have a room exception which is like 3 million and minimum deals. So dumping Aldrich would open up 7 million, but who are you signing for 7 million that is that much better than the 3 million dollar guy and likely the first round pick you have to ship out with Aldrich to move him? That guy may be out there, but you'd have to have him lined up before dumping the first round pick with Aldrich.

You're right. The room exception is actually around $ 4.3 million, but you're basic analysis still stands. I see this as poor asset management.

I dont get why we are so glum. I looked at his stats and in his short stint with okc his defensive numbers did seem to take a dip but it was a new team and was most likely trying to adjust to their scheme. Damn the guys 32 not 36. Its a 2 year deal.

He knows what thibs wants and will bring the intensity that towns and wiggins lack on defense. I think a lot of you had hitched your wagons to millsap but that wasnt likely at the salary he would want. Like someone mentioned before, if butler and gibson cant get these kids to get after it on defense i think we were screwed from the get go. Also as far as 3 0t shooting goes you need to hope for improvement from towns and wiggins there also. Teague can shoot a bit and Butler can as well. Are they steph curry or durant, no but they still can shoot. Hopefully now with the rubio haters we will have the spacing they needed so they should shoot much better. Im not a rubio hater and am down on that trade but im optimistic as our offense has been good and now we have added some guys to get after it on defense. Trust in thibs.

We didn't need another 3pt shooter in the starting lineup. We have 4 guys who shoot league average including Towns. We needed defensive toughness in the frontcourt especially at the rim. Gibson will likely guard the opposing center and Towns will follow the 4 on the perimeter which works great as Towns has been struggling down low with guys at times. We had bad 3pt shooting this year and still had a good offense with the exception of 4th quarters. We needed defense more than we needed 3's and that's what we got. I think everyone is so focused on needing 40% 3pt shooters that they are underselling guys who can shoot league average and get to the bucket and draw fouls. I don't know how a team with 3 20pt scorers and a 15pt scorer is going to struggle for offense at the end of the day which seems to be the underlying tone behind the desperation for 3pt shooters. We're going to be able to score and defend now. This isn't Westbrook surrounded by Oladipo, Roberson, Sabonis and Adams. We have 4 good enough shooters in the starting lineup. That should be enough to not be a problem.

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I hate the signing. Thibs just blew the rest of our cap space on a backup PF on the backside of his career who can't stretch the floor. With our cap space gone we haven't improve our 3-point shooting at all.

Weren't you just upset earlier this morning because Thibs didn't blow it all on PJ Tucker? Thibs just can't win with you sometimes lol

No Bloop. Once again, you have your facts wrong. I was never advocating that we sign Tucker, although I think he would have been a better signing than Taj for $14 million because he can shoot threes and fill in our gaping hole on the bench at the wing position. If you've been reading carefully, you may have noticed that I've been lamenting not getting Snell and Ingles and that I wanted us to consider signing Collison and/or CJ Miles to add 3-point shooting.

gosh here's a post where you are already freaking out about us not signing PJ Tucker? Guess I just have my facts wrong though lol

"I just saw that, Wild. They used the MLE of $8.4 million per year to sign him. This confirms that the Wolves didn't pursue him because we could have easily outbid the Rockets.

Here's my question for you and anyone else out there. Does the Wolves front office have any plan beyond trading for Butler and effectively swapping Ricky for Teague?

We saw reports the Wolves were pursuing Redick and Millsap. One is a 3-point sniper, the other isn't. Each represents a very different path. Obviously we weren't going to get both since either one would have consumed all our remaining cap space. In fact, it was unrealistic to think we could sign either of those two with only around $15 million cap space left. Thibs has talked repeatedly about the compelling need to upgrade our 3-point shooting, but he traded our best 3-point shooter, LaVine, and hasn't added any upper eschelon 3-point shooters to the roster. There were no reports of the Wolves pursuing two attractive 3-point shooting RFAs, Snell and Ingles, who have both now re-signed with their current teams. Thibs talked about the need to add toughness, yet it appears he made no effort to sign what we now know would have been a very affordable PJ Tucker. I'm confused, but perhaps I'm just easily confused.

The next few days will be critical in determining whether the Wolves can fill in our disturbingly thin bench with enough quality rotation players to be a legitimate upper tier team."

short memory? you do seems to flip your positions every other day though so I understand

Bloop. Read more carefully. Tucker signed for $8.4 million! I would certainly applaud that signing as a bargain but I . He would bring 3-point shooting in addition to every bit as much toughness as Taj -- BUT AT A POSITION OF NEED FOR A FRACTION OF THE PRICE. Nothing inconsistent about me then complaining that we paid $14 million for Taj, who doesn't bring any semblance of 3-point shooting.

Now please review your post where you said I was upset we didn't "blow it all on Tucker." First of all, at $8.4 million (rather than $14 million) we wouldn't have "blown it all" on Tucker." Second, my main point wasn't to lament not signing Butler; it was my confusion over Thibs failure to get a 3-point shooter. My other point was that, if toughness was what Thibs wanted, he could have had toughness at a bargain price in Tucker -- who also can shoot the three.

Maybe it's just a matter of reading comprehension.

khans2k5 wrote:We didn't need another 3pt shooter in the starting lineup. We have 4 guys who shoot league average including Towns. We needed defensive toughness in the frontcourt especially at the rim. Gibson will likely guard the opposing center and Towns will follow the 4 on the perimeter which works great as Towns has been struggling down low with guys at times. We had bad 3pt shooting this year and still had a good offense with the exception of 4th quarters. We needed defense more than we needed 3's and that's what we got. I think everyone is so focused on needing 40% 3pt shooters that they are underselling guys who can shoot league average and get to the bucket and draw fouls. I don't know how a team with 3 20pt scorers and a 15pt scorer is going to struggle for offense at the end of the day which seems to be the underlying tone behind the desperation for 3pt shooters. We're going to be able to score and defend now. This isn't Westbrook surrounded by Oladipo, Roberson, Sabonis and Adams. We have 4 good enough shooters in the starting lineup. That should be enough to not be a problem.

That's a good analysis, Kahns. But it goes beyond the string 5 in my view. My concern is that we have no 3-point marksmen in our rotation. And it was Thibs, not just me, who's been repeatedly talking about the need to upgrade our 3-point shooting. Now we're out of cap space and he hasn't moved the needle at all in the three-point shooting department. Admittedly, there's still a chance to add rotation-level three-point shooting through the room exception.

=

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I hate the signing. Thibs just blew the rest of our cap space on a backup PF on the backside of his career who can't stretch the floor. With our cap space gone we haven't improve our 3-point shooting at all.

Weren't you just upset earlier this morning because Thibs didn't blow it all on PJ Tucker? Thibs just can't win with you sometimes lol

No Bloop. Once again, you have your facts wrong. I was never advocating that we sign Tucker, although I think he would have been a better signing than Taj for $14 million because he can shoot threes and fill in our gaping hole on the bench at the wing position. If you've been reading carefully, you may have noticed that I've been lamenting not getting Snell and Ingles and that I wanted us to consider signing Collison and/or CJ Miles to add 3-point shooting.

gosh here's a post where you are already freaking out about us not signing PJ Tucker? Guess I just have my facts wrong though lol

"I just saw that, Wild. They used the MLE of $8.4 million per year to sign him. This confirms that the Wolves didn't pursue him because we could have easily outbid the Rockets.

Here's my question for you and anyone else out there. Does the Wolves front office have any plan beyond trading for Butler and effectively swapping Ricky for Teague?

We saw reports the Wolves were pursuing Redick and Millsap. One is a 3-point sniper, the other isn't. Each represents a very different path. Obviously we weren't going to get both since either one would have consumed all our remaining cap space. In fact, it was unrealistic to think we could sign either of those two with only around $15 million cap space left. Thibs has talked repeatedly about the compelling need to upgrade our 3-point shooting, but he traded our best 3-point shooter, LaVine, and hasn't added any upper eschelon 3-point shooters to the roster. There were no reports of the Wolves pursuing two attractive 3-point shooting RFAs, Snell and Ingles, who have both now re-signed with their current teams. Thibs talked about the need to add toughness, yet it appears he made no effort to sign what we now know would have been a very affordable PJ Tucker. I'm confused, but perhaps I'm just easily confused.



The next few days will be critical in determining whether the Wolves can fill in our disturbingly thin bench with enough quality rotation players to be a legitimate upper tier team."

short memory? you do seems to flip your positions every other day though so I understand

Bloop. Read more carefully. Tucker signed for $8.4 million! I would certainly applaud that signing as a bargain but I . He would bring 3-point shooting in addition to every bit as much toughness as Taj -- BUT AT A POSITION OF NEED FOR A FRACTION OF THE PRICE. Nothing inconsistent about me then complaining that we paid $14 million for Taj, who doesn't bring any semblance of 3-point shooting.

Now please review your post where you said I was upset we didn't "blow it all on Tucker." Firstf all, at $8.4 million (rather than $14 million) we wouldn't have "blown it all" on Tucker." Second, my main point wasn't to lament not signing Butler; it was my confusion over Thibs failure to get a 3-point shooter. My other point was that, if toughness was what Thibs wanted, he could have had toughness at a bargain price in Tucker -- who also can shoot the three.

Maybe it's just a matter of reading comprehension.

Tucker signed for 4 years you do realize he would have gotten way more closer to Taj had he signed a 2 year deal as well right? That's how contracts work but I'm sure you'd be losing your shit if Thibs would have signed a 32 year old wing not named Iggy to a 4 year deal as well. Your second paragraph is pointless as Toronto was offering 3 years 33 million and Houston offered 4, so how exactly did you plan on adding Tucker without blowing it all anyway?

Maybe it's just a matter of you understanding how contracts work.

What does this franchise need more than anything besides talent? A winning culture. That effects how you play on the floor practice and develop players. We are a little over a year into Thibs and Layden taking over the franchise and while Flip had this thing headed in the right direction...it was led by different people for a year while he was gone. It takes time to develop a culture.

This offseason Thibs and Layden have basically
fast tracked developing that culture in adding proven vet players that have played for winning franchises. In Butler and Gibson they just happen to have played for the coach in Thibs. :) They may still have a vet or 2 that comes here cheap to help that as well. Last year they had next to none of those guys now they have at least 3 with Butler Taj and Teague. Having culture and guys that will play well in the system will mean some other guys young or otherwise may look better instead of looking underwhelming like has happened often in the past although not every time. These are the type of vets this team needed to take a step and Thibs and Layden have looked toward the future drafting a guy like Patton and added a first round pick.