60WinTim wrote:I am confident Flip understands what he doing with the roster. If he wants Hummel, even as the 15th guy, then NOW was the time he needed to do something.
We are flipping out over nothing...
So you are perfectly comfortable with 2 of the 4 guards on this team having the injury history of Rubio and Martin while their counterparts are 19 and 20 years old?
longstrangetrip wrote:I don't understand the hate for Robbie Hummel. Sure, he doesn't jump as high as Zach LaVine, but he is a very good basketball player. I enjoyed this article on canishoopus, which labeled Robbie the best 12th man in the NBA. The stats support this. He consistently is at or near the top of our +/- list, even though he typically isn't on the court with our starters. The author wonders how this can be, and attributes it to:
1) no turnovers
2) never takes a bad shot
3) never has his shot blocked
4) leads the team in charges taken
These aren't the stats that grab headlines, but they are stats that make teams better. And we get all this for less than $2 million a year, and a guy who never complains about his role. Flip was right to keep Robbie.
Read this article, and construct a rebuttal as to why Flip shouldn't have re-signed Robbie.
Except he's the 15th man on this roster as currently constructed and we have a better version of him supposedly signing in Bjelica. His spot should have gone to a guard. We have plenty of 3's and 4's on the roster. Flip can try to trade Bud and Bennett, but I just don't see teams absorbing those guys without help like picks which we shouldn't do just to get rid of their expiring contracts. Once again we are making moves that are backing us in a corner like when we had to dump guys and give up picks just to make the offer to Batum valid and then Portland matched. Robbie just doesn't fit with Bjelica in the fold. We should be giving that spot to a depth combo guard on account of only having 4 guards on the roster.
Remember last year the uproar over the Wolving signing Hummel and people thought GR3 wouldn't make the roster? JJ took a buyout which saved Glen a bit of money GR3 made the cut and Hummel showed he was a worthwhile end of the bench player. Until either proves otherwise Hummel is better than both Payne and Bennett.
I speculate that there are teams out there that value Bud but I think Flip values him too and unless he gets something worthwhile back or he feels like there is a player worth opening up a roster spot for (this could happen in training camp) he will keep Bud. Flip has found nice enough landing spots when he has moved decent vets so I would think Bud is happy enough either way which may be partly why he opted in for his sure 5 million.
We haven't received jack shit from those landing spots he's found for other guys. Troy Daniels and Gary Neal essentially for Corey and Mo. So he traded two useful players for shitty rentals that aren't even on the roster this year because he didn't have the guts to keep Corey and Mo on his losing roster while we develop the young guys. Two more players would have been nice down the stretch when we had a 7-8 man rotation and were running Wiggins and Lavine into the ground with basically 40 MPG's. Those weren't good moves and dumping Bud or Bennett for a roster spot wouldn't be a good move either, but it's now his primary avenue for opening a roster spot if we need one. Hummel is a nice piece when you have everything else figured out already. We aren't at that point so the flexibility or roster balance would have been worth more in my opinion.
Sorry I didn't communicate well enough that I meant nice landing spots for Brewer and Mo going to playoff teams. Flip did get #36 which was key to moving up to get Tyus and there will be another low 2nd round pick coming from Houston next year.
I think if you think Hummel is a guy that's worthwhile when you have it figured out then why not keep him while you figure it out? He is cheap and it's not like he is 35 or something.
Like Tim said I think people are worried for nothing. I do a solute agree another ball handler makes a lot of sense for this team and that may happen. It could be Brown or Heslip or some one else. It's over 3 months away from the start of the season. Toronto just got a future pick and a 2nd rounder for Vasquez a few days ago. I'm not expectig us to get that type of a return for a guy we want to move but who thought someone would give up that much for Vasquez? There will be opportunities to move a guy like Bud. If there is really a guy worth holding on to Flip and Glen have shown willingness to let a guy like JJ go last year. I would think Bud would have no problem agreeing to a buyout for what he is making minus the vet min he would make when signing with another team. I doubt that will happen because I think Bud has some value but yeah.
That's not exactly balanced and given Martin and Ricky's injury history it would make more sense to fill out the roster with a combo guard than a small ball 4. At the end of the day I just don't see a trade for Bennett or Bud that doesn't cost us more which is stupid to do at that point because they are expiring and should just be kept if they can't get it done on their own. Maybe they can net us a crappy combo guard to fill out the roster, but I doubt it.
Khans, I think you have accurately listed the roster at the position they may play best, but I don't think that is how Flip looks at it. He has to make sure he has depth at each position, and the ability of players to play multiple positions simplifies this process. This is how I think Flip looks at his roster:
PG Ricky/Tyus/LaVine
SG Martin/LaVine/Wiggins/Bazz/Bud
SF Wiggins/Bazz/Bud/Hummel
PF KG/Towns/Bennett/Payne/Bjelica/Hummel/Dieng
C Pek/Towns/Dieng/KG
Looking at it this way, Flip has good depth at every position, and great depth at every position except PG. If any of the three PG's got hurt for a period of time, Flip would probably have to find a free agent.
I am more on board with Khans regarding Hummel. I think it is fine to add that hustle guy to fill out a roster when you are a contender. Unfortunately we aren't even close to that point with this team. I would prefer to stay with a guy who is similar in ability right now, but has significant upside. There is a huge difference in contracts, but that doesn't seem to be an issue at this stage of the teams development.
I read some of the report cards on the link provided by Monster (thanks) and the bias jumps out at me. Hummel got a B- for rebounding while Bennett received a C+, but Bennett had an 8.7 per 36 compared to Hummel's 6.5.
The author also mistakenly posted Hummel's per 36 assists (1.3) in place of his steals (.8 ). The author stated "Bennett's not yet a shot blocker (0.3 per game). He doesn't create turnovers (0.5 steals per game).", but once again Bennett's per 36 numbers are better than Hummel's. Hummel received a C+ for defense, while Bennett received a D.
We can all argue who we think should fill out the final spots, but at least try and be objective when making comparisons. I am sure we can find many stats that backup Hummel over Bennett (Ortg, WS, etc.), and feel free to use those, but there was clearly significant bias when evaluating these two. I understand cheering for the underdog, but that doesn't help build a contender.
sjm34 wrote:I am more on board with Khans regarding Hummel. I think it is fine to add that hustle guy to fill out a roster when you are a contender. Unfortunately we aren't even close to that point with this team. I would prefer to stay with a guy who is similar in ability right now, but has significant upside. There is a huge difference in contracts, but that doesn't seem to be an issue at this stage of the teams development.
I read some of the report cards on the link provided by Monster (thanks) and the bias jumps out at me. Hummel got a B- for rebounding while Bennett received a C+, but Bennett had an 8.7 per 36 compared to Hummel's 6.5.
The author also mistakenly posted Hummel's per 36 assists (1.3) in place of his steals (.8 ). The author stated "Bennett's not yet a shot blocker (0.3 per game). He doesn't create turnovers (0.5 steals per game).", but once again Bennett's per 36 numbers are better than Hummel's. Hummel received a C+ for defense, while Bennett received a D.
We can all argue who we think should fill out the final spots, but at least try and be objective when making comparisons. I am sure we can find many stats that backup Hummel over Bennett (Ortg, WS, etc.), and feel free to use those, but there was clearly significant bias when evaluating these two. I understand cheering for the underdog, but that doesn't help build a contender.
I won't even start with the five position BS!
There were some errors but I did think in general these were fairly well researched and thought out. The guy was trying to be reasonable and yet be a little bit of a homer on all the guys. He was vastly generous to Payne Bennett and probably Brown and Hamilton also imo.
Monster, do you really think the grader was vastly generous to Bennett? He gave him an overall grade of D, and said that while he couldn't call him a bust yet, if he didn't improve greatly this year, that conversation would be in order.
longstrangetrip wrote:Monster, do you really think the grader was vastly generous to Bennett? He gave him an overall grade of D, and said that while he couldn't call him a bust yet, if he didn't improve greatly this year, that conversation would be in order.
I take it back then I thought he had given a higher grade.
longstrangetrip wrote:Monster, do you really think the grader was vastly generous to Bennett? He gave him an overall grade of D, and said that while he couldn't call him a bust yet, if he didn't improve greatly this year, that conversation would be in order.
I take it back then I thought he had given a higher grade.
On the other hand, when my college calculus teacher gave me a D, that could have been considered generous :) !
