Media day

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I question Sam's intelligence sometimes too...he doesn't talk or act like most people I hang with. But when I have these thoughts (or read other's opinions here about Sam), I suspect they often come from a very suburban "white" place. I don't think anyone would disagree that white and black Americans have different communication styles, and Sam is quintessentially Southern black...I don't expect guys like us (or Glen Taylor, for that matter) to "get" him. But NBA players come from a completely different background than most of us here, and I suspect Sam communicates with them very well. His ridiculous overachieving in Toronto with a roster that most of us couldn't see winning 20 games tells me he knows how to get the most out of his players, even if I don't always get what he is trying to say.

I watched all of his first televised practice with the Wolves last fall on NBA TV, and I was quite impressed with his defensive coaching. I was fairly certain he was pounding home defensive concepts (proper stance, trapping, PnR defensive concepts) this group had not heard so strongly from Flip (with some loud backup vocals from KG!). Many here will blame Sam for the poor defensive showing last year, but not me...I pin it on either our relative youth (NBA defense takes some time to master), or in some cases (Shabazz, for instance), guys who have never gotten it on defense regardless of the coach.

As for Bazz's comments this fall...it's a time for optimism, and I want to believe there will be a new Bazz on defense. But the more I think about it, the more skeptical I am. Bazz is an unusual guy, but when I listen to him in interviews, he strikes me as one of the brighter guys on the team...he knows how to say the right thing to get me excited about him. And backhanded blaming of Sam for his own defensive shortcomings is the right approach to take right now if he wants us (and the new regime) to think more positively about him. But let me ask you guys this...does anyone really expect Bazz to be an above average defender this year? I think he is what he is (much of which I like, by the way), and defensive excellence has never been part of his DNA. If I'm wrong and Bazz turns into Tony Allen, I will become the loudest member of the Tom Thibodeau cheering squad! But I guess I'm still skeptical.

[Monster]

Q I think it's kinda fun to look at the parallels between Thins and Zimmer taking over teams that were terrible defensively. As bad as the Wolves were last year without looking at the numbers I doubt they were as historically as bad as the Vikings (and Dallas) were the year before Zimmer took over. It was brutally bad. Now was that team bare when it came to defensive talent? No but it had some pretty big holes and I believe Harrison Smith had missed a big chunk of games which was a big deal. Zimmer was hired and they went from brutally bad to somewhere around the top 3rd of the league right? Now it wasn't just Zimmer working magic. Speilman made some signings and draft picks that were pretty significant. They needed a NT (and had need that for years) Speilman added Joseph. They need CBs so he went out and got Captain. They needed a classic thumping MLB so they brought back what's his name and he was a solid. They drafted Barr at LB. So they added talent as well as what now increasingly looks like a terrific coach.

So Thibs is taking over and we feel confident he can make the team at least in the middle this year which isn't enough to be a contender but if the team can score (seems pretty likely) being in the middle would probably be enough to get a playoff spot or be very close to it.

Did the Wolves add personnel to help the team defensively? I'm not sure they added guys that will have the impact of a Barr or Joseph but they needed bigger guys to rebound etc. they added Aldridge and Jordon. Check they needed a perimeter defending guard and they added Dunn who might compare to adding Barr although I'll try and keep my expectations low but I think you get where ain going here. Now of course they lost a guy like Prince who was a terrific defensive presence and KG when he played.

The other thing is generally speaking when you look at the roster of young guys do you think this team has enough players that in theory should be good on that end? I would say there is plenty for Thibs to work with. Towns Wiggins Rubio are guys that should be pretty good to elite level defenders which is where Rubio was last year and that's not talked about enough how he made a jump from good to elite. Dieng certainly has plenty of tools to be an asset defensively. Levine is far from a lost cause but he is easily the weak line of the projected starters but the potential is certainly there for him to not suck.

I see a bit of a parallel to the Vikings when Zimmer took over despite the poor defense of the previous season the cupboard of talent wasn't/isn't completely bare and that's significant. I'm also still tempering my expectations but I also won't be surprised if the team makes a pretty significant jump and Thibs happens to have his star/stars especially with Towns having one year looking ridiculously good on offense while Zimmer certainly didn't have a nobrainer franchise QB to start off with. Building an NBA and NFL roster are very different animals but I do think it's a bit fun to look at the comparisons sometimes.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I hope the comparisons between Zim and thibs are accurate, because I'm a huge Zim guy. Sure, he has some very good athletes to work with, but I think he has proven that our defensive success has as much to do with his system than with personnel. It was extraordinary last year that when key defensive players would get hurt, the defense didn't seem to suffer much at all. That's the definition of system over personnel.

Having played both football and basketball, my bias is that coaching is far more important in football. Defense in basketball to me is more dependent upon individual excellence than system. That said, I think Thibs' defensive reputation is not without merit, and he has some great athletes to work with, so I expect some defensive improvement this year. I'm just not expecting a Zim-like turnaround in our defense. But I would love to be surprised on this one.

[Lipoli390]

LST -- I thought about whether my assessment of Sam stems from his communication style -i.e., his black Southern dialect. Honestly, it doesn't. I'll leave the sports realm and point to Jesse Jackson as an example of someone with a what you might call a very "black" style of speaking. Political beliefs aside, there's no question that guy is incredibly smart. I won't give a list of examples because I don't want to belabor the point.

As for Sam, saying two entirely inconsistent things back to back has nothing to do with his dialect. That's what I observed the other night on NBA TV and its the sort of nonsensical comment I've heard from Sam repeatedly over the years. And of course, there was his nonsensical decision to play Zach at PG, saying that he believed that was the only way he could be a great player, when no one else thought that made sense. And he did that right after proclaiming Zach his starting SG. All that after observing and working with Zach an entire season as assistant coach.

It's not how Sam talks, but what he's said and done that form the basis for my opinion of him. Given how long he's played and coached basketball, I'm not surprised Sam knows the proper defensive stance and has some understanding of defensive concepts. It doesn't suggest to me that he has the intelligence to be a good head coach given all the other things Sam has said and done.

[Monster]

LST -- I thought about whether my assessment of Sam stems from his communication style -i.e., his black Southern dialect. Honestly, it doesn't. I'll leave the sports realm and point to Jesse Jackson as an example of someone with a what you might call a very "black" style of speaking. Political beliefs aside, there's no question that guy is incredibly smart. I won't give a list of examples because I don't want to belabor the point.

As for Sam, saying two entirely inconsistent things back to back has nothing to do with his dialect. That's what I observed the other night on NBA TV and its the sort of nonsensical comment I've heard from Sam repeatedly over the years. And of course, there was his nonsensical decision to play Zach at PG, saying that he believed that was the only way he could be a great player, when no one else thought that made sense. And he did that right after proclaiming Zach his starting SG. All that after observing and working with Zach an entire season as assistant coach.

It's not how Sam talks, but what he's said and done that form the basis for my opinion of him. Given how long he's played and coached basketball, I'm not surprised Sam knows the proper defensive stance and has some understanding of defensive concepts. It doesn't suggest to me that he has the intelligence to be a good head coach given all the other things Sam has said and done.

I think what LST brought up with Sam's communication style was a worthwhile addition to the conversation. I agree with Lip though what is mind boggling and maddening about Sam is his completely contidictory statements. For example he absolutely emphatically said early last season Zachary could only be a star at PG. a few weeks ago he told Wolfson basically Zach was a SG and everyone who knows anything about basketball knew/knows that. Plus there is the way Sam treats people with verbal statements at times.

I have no doubt that Sam's basketball acumen is well above average but no I don't think it's good enough to be a top NBA coach or maybe even average. I also think he is probably a well above average human being despite him going off here and there. The issue is he isn't good enough (both as a coach and his ability to communicate in a fashion needed) to be in that very elite company of NBA head coaches. There really isn't any shame in that. Sam won't have a hard time finding work and he COULD even be a pretty effective college head coach of the right fit was there. Despite me never believing Sam was the answer here I have defended him to a certain extent because I do think the guy has plenty of merits. Jon K said recently Sam's tougher style of coaching will probably have some positivity influence in having the young guys prepared to be coached by an even more exacting and tougher Thibs. Should we give Sam a cookie for all he did here? Idk but overall I think there was probably enough good to think he didn't set back the team and maybe had a hand in helping it move forward in very difficult circumstances. I'll prefer to remember more of those good things than some of his bizarre takes/stances (some of which I think he didn't actually believe) and angry tirades. I wish the guy well and I hope he can enjoy watching the Wolves likely success and I think he will.

[Lipoli390]

Monster - I witnessed a lot of Sam tirades last season at Target Center. I also remember him consistently ignoring his assistants and often waving his hand and telling them to get away from him. In spite of all that, like you, I wish Sam well. He seems like a good person with a good heart. And I think he infused some toughness into our young players. By no means do I think Sam was a net negative. He just wasn't the guy to take us forward as head coach based on both his intellect and temperament. In my view he is definitely smarter and was a better head coach than Kurt Rambis. I think Sam is a very solid assistant coach who will get and deserves another opportunity as an NBA assistant.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Q I think it's kinda fun to look at the parallels between Thins and Zimmer taking over teams that were terrible defensively. As bad as the Wolves were last year without looking at the numbers I doubt they were as historically as bad as the Vikings (and Dallas) were the year before Zimmer took over. It was brutally bad. Now was that team bare when it came to defensive talent? No but it had some pretty big holes and I believe Harrison Smith had missed a big chunk of games which was a big deal. Zimmer was hired and they went from brutally bad to somewhere around the top 3rd of the league right? Now it wasn't just Zimmer working magic. Speilman made some signings and draft picks that were pretty significant. They needed a NT (and had need that for years) Speilman added Joseph. They need CBs so he went out and got Captain. They needed a classic thumping MLB so they brought back what's his name and he was a solid. They drafted Barr at LB. So they added talent as well as what now increasingly looks like a terrific coach.

So Thibs is taking over and we feel confident he can make the team at least in the middle this year which isn't enough to be a contender but if the team can score (seems pretty likely) being in the middle would probably be enough to get a playoff spot or be very close to it.

Did the Wolves add personnel to help the team defensively? I'm not sure they added guys that will have the impact of a Barr or Joseph but they needed bigger guys to rebound etc. they added Aldridge and Jordon. Check they needed a perimeter defending guard and they added Dunn who might compare to adding Barr although I'll try and keep my expectations low but I think you get where ain going here. Now of course they lost a guy like Prince who was a terrific defensive presence and KG when he played.

The other thing is generally speaking when you look at the roster of young guys do you think this team has enough players that in theory should be good on that end? I would say there is plenty for Thibs to work with. Towns Wiggins Rubio are guys that should be pretty good to elite level defenders which is where Rubio was last year and that's not talked about enough how he made a jump from good to elite. Dieng certainly has plenty of tools to be an asset defensively. Levine is far from a lost cause but he is easily the weak line of the projected starters but the potential is certainly there for him to not suck.

I see a bit of a parallel to the Vikings when Zimmer took over despite the poor defense of the previous season the cupboard of talent wasn't/isn't completely bare and that's significant. I'm also still tempering my expectations but I also won't be surprised if the team makes a pretty significant jump and Thibs happens to have his star/stars especially with Towns having one year looking ridiculously good on offense while Zimmer certainly didn't have a nobrainer franchise QB to start off with. Building an NBA and NFL roster are very different animals but I do think it's a bit fun to look at the comparisons sometimes.

Yes, I would say that the raw ingredients Thibs has to work with is quite good. They still lack strength, bulk, and toughness as an overall team, although some of of their offseason additions have partially addressed those issues.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I question Sam's intelligence sometimes too...he doesn't talk or act like most people I hang with. But when I have these thoughts (or read other's opinions here about Sam), I suspect they often come from a very suburban "white" place. I don't think anyone would disagree that white and black Americans have different communication styles, and Sam is quintessentially Southern black...I don't expect guys like us (or Glen Taylor, for that matter) to "get" him. But NBA players come from a completely different background than most of us here, and I suspect Sam communicates with them very well. His ridiculous overachieving in Toronto with a roster that most of us couldn't see winning 20 games tells me he knows how to get the most out of his players, even if I don't always get what he is trying to say.

Not sure it's a white/black thing LST. Two things that always bugged me about Mitchell was his defensiveness with the press and his deflection of blame. That reminds me of Randy Wittman, who is white as the driven snow!

Now, it still might be true that he really isn't very bright relative to a pretty lofty peer group of other NBA coaches, which is what probably leads to the defensiveness and deflection of blame - deep down inside he might know it!

However, if not the most brilliant strategist, here are some things Sam Mitchell is good at: Planning, organizing, giving players feedback, discipline....I could go on.

He did a solid job for us last year in a year unlike anything anyone expected with Flip's death. But I have no doubt Taylor made the right decision in moving on from him.

[Monster]

Monster - I witnessed a lot of Sam tirades last season at Target Center. I also remember him consistently ignoring his assistants and often waving his hand and telling them to get away from him. In spite of all that, like you, I wish Sam well. He seems like a good person with a good heart. And I think he infused some toughness into our young players. By no means do I think Sam was a net negative. He just wasn't the guy to take us forward as head coach based on both his intellect and temperament. In my view he is definitely smarter and was a better head coach than Kurt Rambis. I think Sam is a very solid assistant coach who will get and deserves another opportunity as an NBA assistant.

Way to set the bar high for Sam to jump over...Rambis! Lol I agree with all you said here. I've also thought Rambis might be a nice asset as an assistant for the right team because it seemed like individual players actually did good things while he was coach here. The big problem (besides the lack of talent plus the dysfunction of basically the whole franchise) was it never seemed like the team coached by Rambis ever played together as a unit for any kind of even decent stretch. Sam whatever he did or didn't do had a good stretch to start had a really rough patch for a few weeks and then the team finished strong. And they did it 2 completely different ways first as a slow defensive team then a free flowing offensive team. Sam gets some credit for that and his staff as well. We could have done worse last year for a coach including Rambis and Abe's favorite Sid Lowe. ;)