Minnesota Sports Forum

Big O wrote:When is favors contract up? How does paying him at the end of this contract affect paying our current players? I think I would rather add another youngster that is tied up realativly cheap longer than a vet who needs to be resigned. Keep growing these youngsters and rebuild bench with free agency.

^^^ This, 100%!

Big O wrote:When is favors contract up? How does paying him at the end of this contract affect paying our current players? I think I would rather add another youngster that is tied up realativly cheap longer than a vet who needs to be resigned. Keep growing these youngsters and rebuild bench with free agency.

Favors is an UFA after the 2017-18 season.

Dieng will probably be re-signed after the 2016-17 season so his money will already be on the books by then, as will Rubio's. Wiggins and LaVine will be RFA's the same summer Favors hits free agency, which could be a problem if it weren't for Pekovic's deal expiring at the same time.

Basically, we'll have plenty of room to keep everyone who wants to stay. We'd have everyone's Bird Rights, meaning we can go above the cap to bring back our own players. We'd have the ability to match any offer sheet that LaVine or Wiggins might sign with another team (worst case scenario). That's a lot of control that we'd have.

Assuming we don't sign anyone else this summer or next, we'd only have five players under contract heading into that period (Rubio, Dieng, Towns and Jones). Basically, that's more than enough cap space to bring back Wiggins and LaVine on a mini-max and Favors on a max deal (if necessary). At that point, though, you'd need to be creative about adding role players, but that goes without saying for all teams trying to win in this league. You'd be damn good 1-6 with exceptions left to play with in rounding out the bench. I also think we'd already have been in the playoffs by then and we'd have the league on notice, which is good for adding late-in-their-career vets that want to go ring-hunting.

Simmons for Favors is an interesting option.

The question is would Utah do it? They're currently the 8th seed in the West and considering they've been without Exum and Alec Burcs that's a pretty amazing feat. They look set to made a serious splash for the next 5 years. I guess adding Simmons would give them a second potential Australian Superstar.

kekgeek1 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:I also like the idea someone else suggested a while back. Essentially trading back for a player and still getting a 1st round pick. On the surface, it would be the best of both worlds. We could possibly get a nice defensive type veteran player for our bench. And still have the hope of a draft pick. There seems to be a few Bigs that have some potential mid to late 1st round. Think about what Flip did when Tre Burks for Bazz and Dieng except get a veteran player instead of Bazz.

In theory #2 for faired and #10

Even tough Faried is signed with relatively cheap contract (around 13 million per year) for next three years, I don't like him as a good fit for Wolves. He is high energy player with really good rebounding ability but he is not much a defender and doesn't have a outside shot at all. I wouldn't start him ahead of Dieng.

worldK wrote:

Camden wrote:Quality over quantity is the motto, or should be the motto. Think the chance of drafting Ingram or Simmons, or moving Simmons for Favors, would be much more ideal than getting a role player (Crowder, Faried) and a lesser first rounder.

I know some of you are very high on Crowder, but once again I have to tell you to proceed with caution. This guy's having a breakout year for him and he's still not anything that special. I get the fact he has a reasonable contract, but he's not THAT much of a difference-maker, IMO. He's a guy that can help a winning team, sure, but not one of the integral pieces of said winning team. Also, he's still a below average 3P shooter despite the uptick in attempts and makes this year. And with Brad Stevens as his coach, you have to wonder if Crowder's really just the product of some elite coaching and if he'll be as affective for a different staff. That is a legitimate concern.

I think it'd be a huge mistake to move any top-five pick for Crowder for these reasons.

Agreed cam. Crowder has been talk up around here that you would think he is better than he has been. Don't get me wrong, he is a solid role player but he isn't worth a trade that revolve around our 5th pick. Having a big game vs wiggins recently certainly boosts his stock among guys here but like cam said, he is not that special. A good contract but we can find similar players without giving up that much.

I wasn't suggesting trading our pick straight for Crowder but for Crowder and Nets pick in case our pick is higher than Nets pick. I have a feeling that we have our future stars already (Towns, Wiggins and potentially also Lavine) and we need to just surround them with really good role players with reasonable contracts. Those role players should be good especially in defensive end and just enough threats in offensive end that they cannot be just ignored in offensive end. Crowder would be perfect fit. He has been basically MVP of team that might win almost 50 games this season. He has highest net rating in that Boston team and he has also most RPM wins. He has also improved so far every season based on almost any metric. (PER, win shares etc.) So I think he has not yet even reached his ceiling.

Because of all the above, I'm not even sure whether Boston would do that trade but since they have a really nice collection of role players and they are desperately searching a super star for that team, they might be ready to overpay to get a change to draft Simmons of Ingram.

And how he can be so sure that Simmons (or even Ingram) will be in the end better than Hields or Dunn. For example in 2011 Draft Derrick Williams was clearly the second best prospect but if that draft would be redone now, he wouldn't be drafted in top10. At least Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Vucevic, Valanciunas, Kemba Walker, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas, Reggie Jackson, Tristan Thompson and Tobias Harris would be drafted before Derrick Williams.

With the deal I suggested, we would get great still improving role player with really nice contract and still possibility to also draft a player that can be key piece of our future team.

Mikkeman wrote:

worldK wrote:

Camden wrote:Quality over quantity is the motto, or should be the motto. Think the chance of drafting Ingram or Simmons, or moving Simmons for Favors, would be much more ideal than getting a role player (Crowder, Faried) and a lesser first rounder.

I know some of you are very high on Crowder, but once again I have to tell you to proceed with caution. This guy's having a breakout year for him and he's still not anything that special. I get the fact he has a reasonable contract, but he's not THAT much of a difference-maker, IMO. He's a guy that can help a winning team, sure, but not one of the integral pieces of said winning team. Also, he's still a below average 3P shooter despite the uptick in attempts and makes this year. And with Brad Stevens as his coach, you have to wonder if Crowder's really just the product of some elite coaching and if he'll be as affective for a different staff. That is a legitimate concern.

I think it'd be a huge mistake to move any top-five pick for Crowder for these reasons.

Agreed cam. Crowder has been talk up around here that you would think he is better than he has been. Don't get me wrong, he is a solid role player but he isn't worth a trade that revolve around our 5th pick. Having a big game vs wiggins recently certainly boosts his stock among guys here but like cam said, he is not that special. A good contract but we can find similar players without giving up that much.

I wasn't suggesting trading our pick straight for Crowder but for Crowder and Nets pick in case our pick is higher than Nets pick. I have a feeling that we have our future stars already (Towns, Wiggins and potentially also Lavine) and we need to just surround them with really good role players with reasonable contracts. Those role players should be good especially in defensive end and just enough threats in offensive end that they cannot be just ignored in offensive end. Crowder would be perfect fit. He has been basically MVP of team that might win almost 50 games this season. He has highest net rating in that Boston team and he has also most RPM wins. He has also improved so far every season based on almost any metric. (PER, win shares etc.) So I think he has not yet even reached his ceiling.

Because of all the above, I'm not even sure whether Boston would do that trade but since they have a really nice collection of role players and they are desperately searching a super star for that team, they might be ready to overpay to get a change to draft Simmons of Ingram.

And how he can be so sure that Simmons (or even Ingram) will be in the end better than Hields or Dunn. For example in 2011 Draft Derrick Williams was clearly the second best prospect but if that draft would be redone now, he wouldn't be drafted in top10. At least Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Vucevic, Valanciunas, Kemba Walker, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas, Reggie Jackson, Tristan Thompson and Tobias Harris would be drafted before Derrick Williams.

With the deal I suggested, we would get great still improving role player with really nice contract and still possibility to also draft a player that can be key piece of our future team.

Good post. I'm in the same boat as you. I actually thinking adding another star caliber player might be too much since Towns/Wiggins/LaVine need the bulk of the shots each game to continue to progress. Each of those guys certainly have the ability to be decent defenders - though we can't assume they will be. That's why I think if we just have a collection of good defenders to sub in as needed - we might be okay. Defenders are not sexy/high paid guys - so (as you note), they should be able to be had/kept on reasonable contracts. That would allow us to keep the core guys along with a good collection of complementary players.

At a time when the league is moving away from "traditional" post players to more hybrid players who can handle the ball and creat offense from the 4-5 position you guys wanna trade what could be transendant player for Favors. I don't know why I feel compelled to comment on this because there is zero chance of this happening.

Duke13 wrote:At a time when the league is moving away from "traditional" post players to more hybrid players who can handle the ball and creat offense from the 4-5 position you guys wanna trade what could be transendant player for Favors. I don't know why I feel compelled to comment on this because there is zero chance of this happening.

Agree

KiwiMatt wrote:Simmons for Favors is an interesting option.

The question is would Utah do it? They're currently the 8th seed in the West and considering they've been without Exum and Alec Burcs that's a pretty amazing feat. They look set to made a serious splash for the next 5 years. I guess adding Simmons would give them a second potential Australian Superstar.

Sure. Why not? Partly because from what I understand... they can't afford to pay everybody... so somebody is on the way out. Even if Favors was preferred over Hayward or Gobert or whomever... getting Simmons back and being able to keep everybody else seems like a great deal for them.

Carlos Danger wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

worldK wrote:

Camden wrote:Quality over quantity is the motto, or should be the motto. Think the chance of drafting Ingram or Simmons, or moving Simmons for Favors, would be much more ideal than getting a role player (Crowder, Faried) and a lesser first rounder.

I know some of you are very high on Crowder, but once again I have to tell you to proceed with caution. This guy's having a breakout year for him and he's still not anything that special. I get the fact he has a reasonable contract, but he's not THAT much of a difference-maker, IMO. He's a guy that can help a winning team, sure, but not one of the integral pieces of said winning team. Also, he's still a below average 3P shooter despite the uptick in attempts and makes this year. And with Brad Stevens as his coach, you have to wonder if Crowder's really just the product of some elite coaching and if he'll be as affective for a different staff. That is a legitimate concern.

I think it'd be a huge mistake to move any top-five pick for Crowder for these reasons.

Agreed cam. Crowder has been talk up around here that you would think he is better than he has been. Don't get me wrong, he is a solid role player but he isn't worth a trade that revolve around our 5th pick. Having a big game vs wiggins recently certainly boosts his stock among guys here but like cam said, he is not that special. A good contract but we can find similar players without giving up that much.

I wasn't suggesting trading our pick straight for Crowder but for Crowder and Nets pick in case our pick is higher than Nets pick. I have a feeling that we have our future stars already (Towns, Wiggins and potentially also Lavine) and we need to just surround them with really good role players with reasonable contracts. Those role players should be good especially in defensive end and just enough threats in offensive end that they cannot be just ignored in offensive end. Crowder would be perfect fit. He has been basically MVP of team that might win almost 50 games this season. He has highest net rating in that Boston team and he has also most RPM wins. He has also improved so far every season based on almost any metric. (PER, win shares etc.) So I think he has not yet even reached his ceiling.

Because of all the above, I'm not even sure whether Boston would do that trade but since they have a really nice collection of role players and they are desperately searching a super star for that team, they might be ready to overpay to get a change to draft Simmons of Ingram.

And how he can be so sure that Simmons (or even Ingram) will be in the end better than Hields or Dunn. For example in 2011 Draft Derrick Williams was clearly the second best prospect but if that draft would be redone now, he wouldn't be drafted in top10. At least Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Vucevic, Valanciunas, Kemba Walker, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas, Reggie Jackson, Tristan Thompson and Tobias Harris would be drafted before Derrick Williams.

With the deal I suggested, we would get great still improving role player with really nice contract and still possibility to also draft a player that can be key piece of our future team.

Good post. I'm in the same boat as you. I actually thinking adding another star caliber player might be too much since Towns/Wiggins/LaVine need the bulk of the shots each game to continue to progress. Each of those guys certainly have the ability to be decent defenders - though we can't assume they will be. That's why I think if we just have a collection of good defenders to sub in as needed - we might be okay. Defenders are not sexy/high paid guys - so (as you note), they should be able to be had/kept on reasonable contracts. That would allow us to keep the core guys along with a good collection of complementary players.

Whether the team's young guys seem really nice and sweet and committed or not... they have egos. And they're young.

Young guys want to find their place. They want to establish themselves as THE guy for that first big contract ($100+M). That's a big rub with compiling a team full of super young talented guys all trying to "make it" simultaneously.

There's no pecking order. And that has proven to be a problem for other teams in the past.