Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:The way Towns has talked and played like since day 1 is what it looks like to do so with high confidence from the start. I just don't see how someone can say from day 1 Zach came in with the attitude of I'm better than you and then played that way and it's not playing out of position or mistakes that leads me to say that. Zach didn't shoot like that or play like that. His game involved a lot of settling early (pulling up for long two's instead of going all the way to the basket, picking up his dribble when being hard hedged and struggling to get rid of the ball, etc.). I just don't see guys with high confidence doing that across the league. Playing with confidence and settling when you have the better physical tools aren't really paired together often.

If I ever hear one person associated with or covering the team say Zach has had a confidence issue, I'll give your point some credence. What you're saying is the opposite of everything we've ever heard about him.

Saying it and playing it are different. He'll always say it. He wasn't always playing like it. That's all I'll say.

I'm grateful for that.

Yay. Asshole Cool came out to play. There's that belittling attitude of yours that always improves the quality of this board.

As opposed to your incessant arguments without any basis that create needless back and forth. To use your advice: GTFO

You're right. Building confidence leading to better play isn't a real thing. Guys just always have it from the beginning, right? The yips aren't real. Extended slumps aren't real. They all have the confidence from the beginning and it's external forces keeping them from playing like it. Zach must have been a real confident guy the whole time he was statistically the worst player in the NBA last year, right?

You are amazing. Enough of this.

So the consensus is that Lavine has improved in spite of rather than because of Mitchell. Mostly because he just moved him back to his natural position. But remember that Flip also stated that playing point was part of Zach's development - even if he was ultimately a 2. How about some of the fundamentals like Zach seeming to not leaving the floor as much to pass?

Overall, I probably lean the same way - that this is part of Zach's natural progression rather than being significantly due to Sam's coaching tonic. But interesting to contemplate.

The idea Zach just simply moved to his natural position and everything fell into place seems too simplistic. The argument about confidence seems more like talking about 2 different things confidence and mental decision making. Zach did seem to lose confidence for a few games for a stretch 20 games in or so (he was even shooting off balanced shots etc) but he found himself again. What has changed this season is his mental decision making. Now he makes the right decisions much more often takes better shots sets up his shots better. The knock on Zach is/was his mental decision making when to do what when and settling for jump shots. He has improved massively in that area and a switch flipped in those areas. I have a hard time believing Zach figured it out on his own. That doesn't mean I want to give Sam and his staff massive credit or anything because you would hope any coaching staff could help to some extent.

monsterpile wrote:The idea Zach just simply moved to his natural position and everything fell into place seems too simplistic. The argument about confidence seems more like talking about 2 different things confidence and mental decision making. Zach did seem to lose confidence for a few games for a stretch 20 games in or so (he was even shooting off balanced shots etc) but he found himself again. What has changed this season is his mental decision making. Now he makes the right decisions much more often takes better shots sets up his shots better. The knock on Zach is/was his mental decision making when to do what when and settling for jump shots. He has improved massively in that area and a switch flipped in those areas. I have a hard time believing Zach figured it out on his own. That doesn't mean I want to give Sam and his staff massive credit or anything because you would hope any coaching staff could help to some extent.

It's just word play/semantics. Did his play improve because he was more confident? Or did it improve because he just got more experience? Probably a little of both as they would naturally seem to go hand in hand. But I don't think LaVine ever lacked overall confidence in the general sense. That SOB is an athletic freak and he knows it.

It's an unknowable question as to whether playing PG helped or hurt Zach's progression. I do know he can throw a pocket pass now, something he was incapable of doing last year, thus all the lazy pick and fade plays where he'd just dump it off to Thad, AB, Gorgs, or Payne 19 feet from the hoop.

monsterpile wrote:The idea Zach just simply moved to his natural position and everything fell into place seems too simplistic. The argument about confidence seems more like talking about 2 different things confidence and mental decision making. Zach did seem to lose confidence for a few games for a stretch 20 games in or so (he was even shooting off balanced shots etc) but he found himself again. What has changed this season is his mental decision making. Now he makes the right decisions much more often takes better shots sets up his shots better. The knock on Zach is/was his mental decision making when to do what when and settling for jump shots. He has improved massively in that area and a switch flipped in those areas. I have a hard time believing Zach figured it out on his own. That doesn't mean I want to give Sam and his staff massive credit or anything because you would hope any coaching staff could help to some extent.

This is what I've seen too. Zach had a long way to go with what to do when he has the ball. I like that he's had some time at the 1 to know that kind of responsibility. If his defensive progress can match his offensive progress there's a real good player there.

I think your point is good, hopefully any competent coach could have helped Zach with this. On the other hand, motivation may be Mitchell's forte.

Someone can go look, but I'm pretty sure even last year LaVine was a net positive when on the floor with Rubio. The difference between that number and him as point guard had to have been ridiculously overwhelming. Just seeing that should have been indicative that LaVine was best used off the ball.

Camden wrote:Someone can go look, but I'm pretty sure even last year LaVine was a net positive when on the floor with Rubio. The difference between that number and him as point guard had to have been ridiculously overwhelming. Just seeing that should have been indicative that LaVine was best used off the ball.

Yup. Flip stated on a number of occasions that LaVine's natural position was SG, and everything pointed to Flip using LaVine at SG this year. Comments from Andre Miller clearly show that Flip sold him on the idea of backing up Rubio this year. But Sam chose a different course (well, until recently that is...).

60WinTim wrote:

Camden wrote:Someone can go look, but I'm pretty sure even last year LaVine was a net positive when on the floor with Rubio. The difference between that number and him as point guard had to have been ridiculously overwhelming. Just seeing that should have been indicative that LaVine was best used off the ball.

Yup. Flip stated on a number of occasions that LaVine's natural position was SG, and everything pointed to Flip using LaVine at SG this year. Comments from Andre Miller clearly show that Flip sold him on the idea of backing up Rubio this year. But Sam chose a different course (well, until recently that is...).

At least Sam eventually changed course. What if he never budged? Better late than never....