Insider Wolves Article

[AbeVigodaLive]

This next season will be the final test of whether Wiggins has it in him to attack the boards and react to loose balls. If Thibs can't bring it out of him then no one can. But fortunately, the rest of the players in the starting lineup that I have in mind all have that motor Wiggins doesn't have. KAT clearly has it in spades. Gorgui has it and his rebounding will continue to improve as he gets stronger and smarter. Ricky has it, which is why he's one of the best rebounding PGs in the League. Zach has it and, together with his athleticism, I expect his rebounding to be another area of improvement for him.

Just curious why you think Dieng will improve as a rebounder when the numbers show him becoming less of a rebounder.

PER 36 by year:

1. 13.2 reb
2. 10.0 reb
3. 9.5 reb

Granted, he's improved in other areas and I hope he continues to do so... but can we simply assume it will be rebounding considering the pure numbers are already on the downswing?

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

This next season will be the final test of whether Wiggins has it in him to attack the boards and react to loose balls. If Thibs can't bring it out of him then no one can. But fortunately, the rest of the players in the starting lineup that I have in mind all have that motor Wiggins doesn't have. KAT clearly has it in spades. Gorgui has it and his rebounding will continue to improve as he gets stronger and smarter. Ricky has it, which is why he's one of the best rebounding PGs in the League. Zach has it and, together with his athleticism, I expect his rebounding to be another area of improvement for him.

Just curious why you think Dieng will improve as a rebounder when the numbers show him becoming less of a rebounder.

PER 36 by year:

1. 13.2 reb
2. 10.0 reb
3. 9.5 reb

Granted, he's improved in other areas and I hope he continues to do so... but can we simply assume it will be rebounding considering the pure numbers are already on the downswing?

Pure numbers don't tell the whole picture when it comes to rebounds. KAT is an excellent rebounder and so Dieng didn't need to shoulder as much load on that end last year. Love went to Cleveland and his rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. I think they are both good rebounders but sometimes you have to share the load with teammates.

[kekgeek]

This next season will be the final test of whether Wiggins has it in him to attack the boards and react to loose balls. If Thibs can't bring it out of him then no one can. But fortunately, the rest of the players in the starting lineup that I have in mind all have that motor Wiggins doesn't have. KAT clearly has it in spades. Gorgui has it and his rebounding will continue to improve as he gets stronger and smarter. Ricky has it, which is why he's one of the best rebounding PGs in the League. Zach has it and, together with his athleticism, I expect his rebounding to be another area of improvement for him.

Just curious why you think Dieng will improve as a rebounder when the numbers show him becoming less of a rebounder.

PER 36 by year:

1. 13.2 reb
2. 10.0 reb
3. 9.5 reb

Granted, he's improved in other areas and I hope he continues to do so... but can we simply assume it will be rebounding considering the pure numbers are already on the downswing?

Pure numbers don't tell the whole picture when it comes to rebounds. KAT is an excellent rebounder and so Dieng didn't need to shoulder as much load on that end last year. Love went to Cleveland and his rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. I think they are both good rebounders but sometimes you have to share the load with teammates.

Sorry I don't get your take his best rebounding numbers came when the best rebounder in franchise history was still on the roster in love. His numbers went down when playing with the likes of pek, payne, Hamilton, Robbie Hummel. His worst year was last year and KAT was the only above average rebounder from the big position

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

That's right Q. It's a hustle stat that shouldn't be given the weight that it has. Others here have essentially said the same thing. So if wig is locking down the opponents best wing, I don't expect him to have a good RPG. But yes he does need to dive after a few more loose balls.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

This next season will be the final test of whether Wiggins has it in him to attack the boards and react to loose balls. If Thibs can't bring it out of him then no one can. But fortunately, the rest of the players in the starting lineup that I have in mind all have that motor Wiggins doesn't have. KAT clearly has it in spades. Gorgui has it and his rebounding will continue to improve as he gets stronger and smarter. Ricky has it, which is why he's one of the best rebounding PGs in the League. Zach has it and, together with his athleticism, I expect his rebounding to be another area of improvement for him.

Yes, a Deng/Wiggins rebounding combo would be better than a Wiggins/Zach combo IF Wiggins doesn't improve his rebounding. But keep in mind, the difference between Wiggins and Deng is 2 boards per game (Wiggins career avg. is 4.1; Deng's is 6.2). So the difference is not enormous and it's not a huge stretch to expect a 21 year old with Wiggins' physical gifts to improve that much just be getting physically stronger as we know he will, especially with him and his head coach focusing on it. Also keep in mind that while potentially gaining 2 or 3 rebounds per game with the Deng/Wiggins duo, we'd loose a lot of 3-point shooting AND we loose having a second ball-handler on the court with Ricky. Teams don't contend for championships without at least two really good ball-handlers on the court in their starting lineups.

Long -- I'm not sure who here has predicted that Zach WILL become an all-star. I know I haven't. So I don't think homerism has anything to do with this debate about Zach as our starting SG. In fact, I've been clear that his numbers last year as a non-allstar, especially post all-start break, support having him as our starting SG. Most NBA teams don't have an allstar SG. I think some of us have said Zach has that POTENTIAL to be an all-star. No one can credibly argue otherwise. But it's not the predicate for the argument that he should be our starting SG.

This board in general sees Zach very differently from the pundits in the insider article, and that is most likely explained by one of two things...the Zach supporters are right and the more objective pundits are wrong, or homerism on the part of the Zachites. I think it's more of the latter.

Yeah, I don't think anyone said Zach WILL be an all-star, but I was playing off of your post earlier in this thread where you said Zach certainly wasn't an all-star yet...because we all know what that word "yet" means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYwMZs6eSqo

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I doubt a lot of these national media guys watch a whole lot of the Timberwolves, if we're being completely honest. Therefore, I take what they say with a grain of salt. And I've brought this up multiple times before, but the thought of LaVine as a PG (disaster) is likely still an image in people's minds when they talk about him. If you objectively look at LaVine the SG, he's a completely different player, one with upper echelon type 3P shooting and overall efficiency as a scorer (17+ PPG last year as a starter). Factor in his off the charts athleticism and speed, decent handle and proven improvement in both his game and his body (10 lbs of muscle added last off-season), and it's absolutely fair to say that he has All-Star potential.

[Coolbreeze44]

Zach is just a pup, pardon the pun. His SG performance after he became a starter has me looking forward to what he does next year. The chances of anyone becoming an all star aren't all that great, but I'm certainly not going to say he can't. He would be a senior in college next year. If he was 25 years old you could maybe make some more definitive judgments, but I think those should wait for a couple years.

[KiwiMatt]

Matt -- Batum is a closer call for me because of his age and passing ability. He seems a better fit for us than Deng even though I'm a big Deng fan.

I'm a big Batum fan also. As Lip says, he is a terrific passer and younger than Deng, and is also a terrific wing defender. Here's why I prefer Deng though:

1) A quick internet search will tell you that Batum is looking for a max contract, and that brings the same cap issues that I have talked about with Horford. The Wolves can absorb a max contract this year and next, but giving out a 4-year max this summer will almost certainly put them in the luxury tax when it comes time to pay KAT and Wig (and maybe even Zach, if he becomes a star). I can tell you that the owners (especially the minority ones) are not going to pay that punitive tax, and we risk losing one (or even 2) of our young potential stars.
2) As Cam has mentioned, Deng has the flexibility to play PF when Thibs decides to go with a small lineup. At 200 pounds, Batum is an unlikely option at PF.

Fair comments Trip.

1. I'm only suggesting signing Batum to a 3 - 4 year deal around the $60-80 mark. I'd offer him a player option for his final year if need be. The only thing it will potentially hinder is resigning Dieng and Bazz when their rookie contracts expire. But KG's 8 mil will be coming off the books (when he inevitably takes up his player option) at next seasons end and then Pek's 12 mil the following season. So financially we still have flexibility to keep our core intact.

2. Sure he's too light to play significant minutes at the 4, but what he lacks there he makes up in his ability to cover SG which is a bigger issue depth wise with the current construction of our roster.

It just feels like Batum fills in the gaps. Decent outside shooter, passing, ball handling, perimeter D, length, versatility and of course the fact he's a veteran at age 27 and still in his prime. He makes this team significantly better straight away.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

This next season will be the final test of whether Wiggins has it in him to attack the boards and react to loose balls. If Thibs can't bring it out of him then no one can. But fortunately, the rest of the players in the starting lineup that I have in mind all have that motor Wiggins doesn't have. KAT clearly has it in spades. Gorgui has it and his rebounding will continue to improve as he gets stronger and smarter. Ricky has it, which is why he's one of the best rebounding PGs in the League. Zach has it and, together with his athleticism, I expect his rebounding to be another area of improvement for him.

Just curious why you think Dieng will improve as a rebounder when the numbers show him becoming less of a rebounder.

PER 36 by year:

1. 13.2 reb
2. 10.0 reb
3. 9.5 reb

Granted, he's improved in other areas and I hope he continues to do so... but can we simply assume it will be rebounding considering the pure numbers are already on the downswing?

Pure numbers don't tell the whole picture when it comes to rebounds. KAT is an excellent rebounder and so Dieng didn't need to shoulder as much load on that end last year. Love went to Cleveland and his rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. I think they are both good rebounders but sometimes you have to share the load with teammates.

Sorry I don't get your take his best rebounding numbers came when the best rebounder in franchise history was still on the roster in love. His numbers went down when playing with the likes of pek, payne, Hamilton, Robbie Hummel. His worst year was last year and KAT was the only above average rebounder from the big position

KAT outrebounded Love this year. We also gave up several fewer rebounds a game this year too, so the rebound pace per game dropped. Sam's offense was slower paced than Flip's offense. I think there is a lot of noise in rebound stats from year to year.

[AbeVigodaLive]

This next season will be the final test of whether Wiggins has it in him to attack the boards and react to loose balls. If Thibs can't bring it out of him then no one can. But fortunately, the rest of the players in the starting lineup that I have in mind all have that motor Wiggins doesn't have. KAT clearly has it in spades. Gorgui has it and his rebounding will continue to improve as he gets stronger and smarter. Ricky has it, which is why he's one of the best rebounding PGs in the League. Zach has it and, together with his athleticism, I expect his rebounding to be another area of improvement for him.

Just curious why you think Dieng will improve as a rebounder when the numbers show him becoming less of a rebounder.

PER 36 by year:

1. 13.2 reb
2. 10.0 reb
3. 9.5 reb

Granted, he's improved in other areas and I hope he continues to do so... but can we simply assume it will be rebounding considering the pure numbers are already on the downswing?

Pure numbers don't tell the whole picture when it comes to rebounds. KAT is an excellent rebounder and so Dieng didn't need to shoulder as much load on that end last year. Love went to Cleveland and his rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. I think they are both good rebounders but sometimes you have to share the load with teammates.

Sorry I don't get your take his best rebounding numbers came when the best rebounder in franchise history was still on the roster in love. His numbers went down when playing with the likes of pek, payne, Hamilton, Robbie Hummel. His worst year was last year and KAT was the only above average rebounder from the big position

KAT outrebounded Love this year. We also gave up several fewer rebounds a game this year too, so the rebound pace per game dropped. Sam's offense was slower paced than Flip's offense. I think there is a lot of noise in rebound stats from year to year.

For what it's worth, his rebound percentage dropped too. Not saying there's not possibly noise in rebound stats... Only that it's a tough argument to prove a guy is improving when stats contradict it