Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:Workouts are as meaningless as dating before marriage. You can just look up her stats online now.

+1 Bravo sir

khans2k5 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Jesus Christ, khans. I didn't say that workouts were meaningless. I said the decision will/should primarily be made based on film. You're over here saying: "to throw the workouts out is dumb". I never said that, but I do hold game footage way higher than workouts in determining if I should draft a player over another. If you disagree with that notion, then sure, give me a rebuttal. Don't spin the debate by making it something it's not.

I'm not spinning anything.

"I guess in theory it could make his decision easier, but these decision-makers don't make moves based on interviews, 5v5, 3v3, drills and such. They study the film because that's where the answers are found."

Newsflash, they take all of it into account. Interviews can hurt your stock. Physical testing can hurt your stock. Bad workouts can hurt your stock. If the rest of the NFL wasn't stupid Teddy Bridgewater would have never fallen that far and let us trade up to get him. He had a bad pro day and that sealed his fate with high level decision makers who got scared. This stuff happens, but it also all matters and you said yourself that they should only really care about the tape. 1 piece of information. You're belittling other information when it all matters. Workouts are a teams chances to call bullshit or see if a guy is somewhat capable of doing things he says he can i.e. any type of shooting or post moves. You don't think if Towns comes in here and hits 15/25 3's that shouldn't affect their decision? That's something that isn't on the college game tape more than 8 shots he went 2/8 on. It all matters. It's all pieces to a final puzzle. Game tape is only part of the equation and you do a disservice if you minimize or throw everything else out the window if you're just going to use game tape to scout a guy.

Khans, You are all over the map here. The Teddy Bridgewater example is you proving exactly why one-time workouts can be such a joke! Then you go on to explain why a guy who happens to make a few shots (or not) in an empty gym on a single occasion could sway the decision on whether he gets picked or not.

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Jesus Christ, khans. I didn't say that workouts were meaningless. I said the decision will/should primarily be made based on film. You're over here saying: "to throw the workouts out is dumb". I never said that, but I do hold game footage way higher than workouts in determining if I should draft a player over another. If you disagree with that notion, then sure, give me a rebuttal. Don't spin the debate by making it something it's not.

I'm not spinning anything.

"I guess in theory it could make his decision easier, but these decision-makers don't make moves based on interviews, 5v5, 3v3, drills and such. They study the film because that's where the answers are found."

Newsflash, they take all of it into account. Interviews can hurt your stock. Physical testing can hurt your stock. Bad workouts can hurt your stock. If the rest of the NFL wasn't stupid Teddy Bridgewater would have never fallen that far and let us trade up to get him. He had a bad pro day and that sealed his fate with high level decision makers who got scared. This stuff happens, but it also all matters and you said yourself that they should only really care about the tape. 1 piece of information. You're belittling other information when it all matters. Workouts are a teams chances to call bullshit or see if a guy is somewhat capable of doing things he says he can i.e. any type of shooting or post moves. You don't think if Towns comes in here and hits 15/25 3's that shouldn't affect their decision? That's something that isn't on the college game tape more than 8 shots he went 2/8 on. It all matters. It's all pieces to a final puzzle. Game tape is only part of the equation and you do a disservice if you minimize or throw everything else out the window if you're just going to use game tape to scout a guy.

Khans, You are all over the map here. The Teddy Bridgewater example is you proving exactly why one-time workouts can be such a joke! Then you go on to explain why a guy who happens to make a few shots (or not) in an empty gym on a single occasion could sway the decision on whether he gets picked or not.

The Bridgewater example shows that these workouts matter because teams take them into account. If a guy bombs in your workout should that not raise any flags? All these guys are doing is preparing for these interviews and workouts so to have them bomb after all that preparation should raise flags. On the opposite side if they blow you out of the gym should that not be a positive for them? It shows the hard work and dedication they put into the draft process paying off. Teddy's workout was overblown because he did it without the gloves that he wore all year so it made sense that he would have a bad day by leaving his wheelhouse. If his workout would have gone fine without the gloves he is a potential #1 pick. He took a risk and it hurt him, but he put the gloves back on and he appears to be doing just fine. His pro day should not have hurt him that much because a normal person would see what happened, but it also should have raised some flags that could have easily been checked off when comparing to the other information about him and his play. It was just an example to show these days do matter and they should be used with the other information available to make a decision.

The Towns hitting 3's in the gym also matters because if you can't hit 3's in an open gym you certainly aren't going to do it in a game. That happens all the time in these workouts where guys try to sell parts of their game that aren't on tape (i.e. Cody Zeller trying to sell his midrange game during workouts his draft year). If you can do it in the workout the potential is there, but if you bomb it in the workout you don't deserve credit for that part of your game when the full evaluation comes around. Reputation doesn't matter if it isn't on film so the workout is a chance to show what isn't on the tape.

The Timberwolves are giving this pick over 15 million dollars guaranteed with the expectation they become a game changer. Why would you try to make that choice with less information and not more? The workouts shouldn't be the most important thing, but they have a place in the evaluation process and when all is equal it is another piece of information that could separate one guy from the other.

No one except Q is arguing that workouts don't matter. Kahns saying that teams can be swayed by workouts...for me with the Wolves at #1 they don't have to worry about what other teams think about these guys just what they think. These workouts and chances to interact with these guys is great but the Wolves have spent 2 years or more looking at these prospects these workouts and all that really is a pretty small thing but yeah they are not insignificant. Manziel supposedly had a great pro day... So far that's worked out well right? I watched some of the video I don't know what those people were watching. First he looked like what I would assume a middle schooler might look like in his footwork in his first drop backs And yey! He looks great while on the move. We all knew that.
I'm probably closer to Q than anyone here on these workouts. They probably do more harm than good for teams overall.

I think in some cases these combines with also interviews and psychological testing added in may be just as much about what companies want to endorse certain guys than anything about what they can do on the field. Look at how many endorsements Russell Wilson had lined up his rookie year and he wasn't even supposed to be a starter. Those companies may have saw something. The endorsement game has changed a ton the last 10 years. Companies I think are getting a little smarter of where they want to put their money. I personally like the psychological testing part because that's a huge interest for me (I read about various personality tests for fun) and that may weed out a couple guys here and there but I don't know how much even from that you can really take. A few years from now maybe they have enough data to go off of to make it more worthwhile.

Also Wes Johnson supposedly looked like he had playmaking abilities in his workout. Dude couldn't even get his own shot in the NBA much less create for others on any type of consistent basis.

All this talk about workouts might not matter right now it sounds like Towns said the Wolves are cool or whatever. Lol