Summer League Game 2

[60WinTim]

Cool - you are not the first one to think that Flip merely tossed #26 into the garbage. He used #26 to get rid of Malcolm Lee, creating an open roster spot and another mil of cap space (and removing the #26 salary from the cap space as well). Remember, at the time the Wolves did not know how far they might need to get under the cap in order to sign a FA for more than MLE money. As it turns out, they were able to use a sign-and-trade for Martin, so the extra cap space was not needed. However, the Wolves will also be VERY close to the luxury tax. Malcolm's (and the #26) salary might still be the difference in retaining Pek.

Lee underwent micro-fracture surgery. There is no time-table for his return. I am happy we are not starting off training camp with an injured player already on the roster!

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I agree that it's okay to question the franchise, cool, and I have done that many times during the David Kahn administration. I just didn't see Kahn as a basketball guy...don't even know if he ever even played the game...so I didn't trust his instincts. Flip is a basketball guy, so my default position is to trust him until he proves me wrong. And he has done exactly what he said he was going to do this offseason. But I'm not a complete Flip apologist. I questioned the Brewer signing, both because of the guy and the contract. I've warmed a little to that move after seeing his nearly 40% left corner three shooting, but I also acknowledge Lipoli's position that that % is an outlier in his career.

As for the 26th pick, yes, I was on board with that move. I'm not a capologist, but I have been told that what Flip did with the 26th pick was instrumental to clearing enough space to be able to sign Martin. And further, what could we have done better with that pick? Flip had already used two first round picks to secure two players who were almost certain to be on the roster, and it was unlikely that Adelman was going to be happy with three rookies on his squad. That leaves the option of a Eurostash, but do we really need another one of those...what we have now, 6-7 Eurostashes who we will never see?

So, yeah, I see us in much better hands than we were in the Kahn days. But my rose-colored glasses will come off if I see Flip's plan not working.

[Lipoli390]

Longstrange -- I would echo what Cool wrote. I'll add that I've been as much of a Wolves cheerleader as just about anyone on the old ESPN board many of us are migrating from. But being a die hard Wolves fan as I am, I still can't turn a blind eye to red flags and concerns about management, especially in light of the historically suspect management we've all seen from the Wolves franchise over the years.

I mentioned McCollum here, not because I thought we should have drafted him, but because of the disconnect between Flip's explanation and his pursuit of Redick. McCollum's wingspan is 3 inches wider than Redick's and his overhead reach only 1 inch shorter. We can debate which one is smaller, but that's just quibbling. Truth is, they are about the same size, yet Flip said it was size that caused him to pass on drafting McCollum while later making a similarly small player, Redick, his top FA choice as our starting SG. That just doesn't hold up in my view. And again, it is only one head-scratching example among several in Flip's short tenure here so far.

My concerns are clearly based on a limited data set. And we haven't seen the results on the court yet. So all the stuff we're posting at this point is very preliminary. However, if we didn't post anything but happy-talk until after the season, then this message board would be pretty boring and pointless. And note that I haven't been all doom and gloom about the Wolves. In fact, my posts have been generally positive thus far. Nevertheless, I'll continue to post my observations and assessments and I hope others on this board do the same whether they agree with me or not.

I welcome posts that are either more positive or more negative than mine on any given topic. I enjoy debate about my favorite team, the Wolves. In fact, I confess that sometimes I post my most negative thoughts in the hope that others will talk me off the ledge with some good counter-argument. But I'm hoping that people on this board aren't criticized for being either too positive or negative. If others have a different take on something, then they can post their own thoughts with supporting analysis just like you did. While I disagree with your opinion and analysis, I think it was thoughtful and reasonable and I'm not going to call you out for being too positive. You and others should feel comfortable being as positive or negative as you want to be. And none of us should take criticism of a player, coach or GM personally as if someone has attacked us or a member of our family.

The spirit of a message board is to express opinions and share our thoughts on our favorite teams, including their players, coaches and front office people. I'd like to see that spirit continue on this board as it did for the most part on the ESPN board many of us have come from.

[60WinTim]

Lip - I know there is some speculation that Reddick might have been Flip's top choice. Do you know for a fact if that was the case?

Flip may not have added this, but there are other things that differentiate Reddick and McCollum. Reddick is a proven NBA commodity. McCollum is a college senior who had a great year from 3-point land. His prior years? Not so much. Isn't that Wes Johnson-like?

I would be extremely disappointed if we drafted McCollum with hopes he could become our starting PG. I liked McCollum, but have always seen him as a combo guard off the bench, something we already had a lot of...

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Fair post, Lipoli. There are a lot of great basketball minds on this forum, and I didn't mean to be critical of anyone whose opinion differs from mine. In fact, with as dreadful as Muhammad looked today, my optimism is waning a little tonight. Man, he was awful!

Perhaps I'm conflating specific criticism of management with a general pessimism about the prospects for the team this year. In actuality, I suspect some on this board might be critical of one or more of Flip's moves, but still be harboring some optimism about how the team will perform this year. If pressed, I think that most of us think the team will win more games this year...the only question is how many more. I'm in the camp that they have filled enough pressing needs to win 15 more games or more this year, and there probably aren't three other teams that can look forward to that much improvement.

That gives me an idea for a board poll. Once the dust settles...maybe after the first or second exhibition game...I'll post a poll asking how many more wins the Wolves will have this year, and why. It will be interesting to see the diversity of opinions.

[markkbu [enjin:6588958]]

My concerns are clearly based on a limited data set. And we haven't seen the results on the court yet. So all the stuff we're posting at this point is very preliminary. However, if we didn't post anything but happy-talk until after the season, then this message board would be pretty boring and pointless. And note that I haven't been all doom and gloom about the Wolves. In fact, my posts have been generally positive thus far. Nevertheless, I'll continue to post my observations and assessments and I hope others on this board do the same whether they agree with me or not.

I welcome posts that are either more positive or more negative than mine on any given topic. I enjoy debate about my favorite team, the Wolves. In fact, I confess that sometimes I post my most negative thoughts in the hope that others will talk me off the ledge with some good counter-argument. But I'm hoping that people on this board aren't criticized for being either too positive or negative. If others have a different take on something, then they can post their own thoughts with supporting analysis just like you did. While I disagree with your opinion and analysis, I think it was thoughtful and reasonable and I'm not going to call you out for being too positive. You and others should feel comfortable being as positive or negative as you want to be. And none of us should take criticism of a player, coach or GM personally as if someone has attacked us or a member of our family.

The spirit of a message board is to express opinions and share our thoughts on our favorite teams, including their players, coaches and front office people. I'd like to see that spirit continue on this board as it did for the most part on the ESPN board many of us have come from.

Lip, this is very well thought out and said. particularly the last 2 paragraphs. It should be a mandatory read for everyone before they post.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Tim, you verbalized well the concern I had when McCollum was still on the board when our turn came up. I was convinced Flip was going to pick him, and I didn't like it. CJ was a very entertaining offensive player in the Patriot League, but never had the reputation as being a great distance shooter. His first two years at Lehigh he scored well because he was able to get to the basket at will against the lower quality defenders that league usually produces. Then, he shot the lights out on threes last year. But it was difficult for me to know if those numbers were valid because his season was so short and there was such an improvement over the previous years. I knew he would struggle defensively against SG's in the NBA, and there was enough uncertainty about his distance shooting that I saw him as a risk. I was really glad when the 9th pick became the 14th and the 21st.

After seeing Shabazz lay an egg today, I'm not so sure anymore!

[Lipoli390]

Tim and Longstrange -- You guys have articulated legitimate concerns about McCollum and sound reasons why it could make sense to pass on McCollum in the draft yet pursue Redick as a free agent. In fact, although I had McCollum very high on my draft board, I'll admit I was a bit concerned by his unimpressive three-point percentage before his senior year. But again, Flip never mentioned any of those things when explaining his decision to pass on McCollum in a long extended interview with Dan Barreiro. Makes me wonder about Flip. Taking Shabazz was the second mistake in my view. I think Olynyk, Hardaway or Karasev would have been a better choice at #14.

[maelstrom11 [enjin:6599701]]

Lip...Sorry to put you on the defensive with my earlier comments but I thought the repeated "not bright" comments about Flip were not warranted. Flips track record as a coach in itself tells me he is a very bright basketball mind and knows what kind of players it takes to win. He's not my uncle but I've always liked him through the years (when he coached) and I feel he got a raw deal as the fall guy after Spree and Sammy laid down....

Some of the moves he has made this summer may be him saying one thing and doing another but honestly I've loved how open he has been and I think he's done a great job of putting himself in the cross hairs and explaining every move. Kahn and Mchale were cowards this way and rarely if ever went on public radio to defend and explain a decision. Kahn was so bad that even after he was fired he blamed the scouts for the Jonny Flynn pick?? Flips been on and explained exactly why he went down the Baz/Dieng road. I think most of those that were mad and calling into KFAN didnt even mention McCollum but rather they wanted Burke. Im sure you've heard the podcasts (which are ludicrous...I'd take McCollum over Burke in a second)

Regarding McCollum, If I remember one of Flips early interviews with Barerro correctly (right after the workout) I think he did mention that McCollums shooting wasnt as good as he expected during the workout. Just speculating but maybe the performance in the workout... along with his not optimal size ... and who knows possibly his demeanor in the interviews or general attitude about his high basketball IQ ...maybe Flip just got a bad vibe and decided he didnt want to go down the McCollum road? The chance to get Dieng was how flip explained it in the KFAN interview.

On the Reddick front I agree with what Tim said. We cant be sure that Reddick was his top choice. Some will say it was OJ Mayo? I tend to think it was Kmart because he called him at 12:01AM on the day free agency started. Also, I'd add that it doesnt really matter who his top choice was....we don't have Mayo or Reddick and ultimately he'll be judged on only KMart.....

[Lipoli390]

Maelstrom -

You obviously have strong feelings for Flip and that's fine. I don't have strong feelings for or against him. So I'm just offering my unfiltered assessment of him as President of Basketball Operations.. We can debate how good he was as a coach. I think he was a good one. But being a top executive of a multi-million dollar organization like the Wolves is a totally different animal (pun intended).

You can coach largely on feel. But Flip's current position demands a level of cogent analytical thinking that I suspect he lacks. You can legitimately disagree with me, but you shouldn't take my criticism of Flip or any other player, coach or basketball exec personally as you apparently did. I'm going to get defensive if you get personal with me as you did in your post. The difference is that I did not get personal with you in my initial post. That's the point I wanted to convey.

I referred to Flip in this thread as "in over his head" in his current role. I think that was a fair criticism. And even if not fair, it's just a message board post about a basketball exec. If we get defensive and take personal shots at other posters in response to criticism of players, coaches or basketball execs, then this whole thing falls apart and we lose the fun as well as the high level discussions we've all enjoyed for years.