Rubio signed!

[Lipoli390]

Long - I think you're right about Ricky's potential. But I'd still say he is clearly a top 15 PG right now. I think these other rankings tens to undervalue stats like steals, rebounds and assists. I don't consider steals peripheral. In face I recall an article last year that made a compelling analytical case for putting a very high value on steals. Steals and rebounds mean possessions - limiting the other team's and increasing your own team's. To be top 5 in both steals and rebounds at your position is a very big deal. And assists are clearly not peripheral to the PG position. In fact, that stat goes right to the core of the position. So here's my current ranking, which still seriously punishes Ricky for his shooting deficiencies:

1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Derrick Rose
6. Dragic - although I'm not sure he's a PG
7. Mike Conley
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Damian Lillard
11. Ricky Rubio

[kekgeek]

Long - I think you're right about Ricky's potential. But I'd still say he is clearly a top 15 PG right now. I think these other rankings tens to undervalue stats like steals, rebounds and assists. I don't consider steals peripheral. In face I recall an article last year that made a compelling analytical case for putting a very high value on steals. Steals and rebounds mean possessions - limiting the other team's and increasing your own team's. To be top 5 in both steals and rebounds at your position is a very big deal. And assists are clearly not peripheral to the PG position. In fact, that stat goes right to the core of the position. So here's my current ranking, which still seriously punishes Ricky for his shooting deficiencies:

1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Derrick Rose
6. Dragic - although I'm not sure he's a PG
7. Mike Conley
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Damian Lillard
11. Ricky Rubio

I like your list, two stats espn gave on Twitter after rubio signed were eye opening to me, rubio was the best iso defender of any guard last year (33%), and he led the league in passes leading to free throws. I like ricky and happy he is on the wolves

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

Long - I think you're right about Ricky's potential. But I'd still say he is clearly a top 15 PG right now. I think these other rankings tens to undervalue stats like steals, rebounds and assists. I don't consider steals peripheral. In face I recall an article last year that made a compelling analytical case for putting a very high value on steals. Steals and rebounds mean possessions - limiting the other team's and increasing your own team's. To be top 5 in both steals and rebounds at your position is a very big deal. And assists are clearly not peripheral to the PG position. In fact, that stat goes right to the core of the position. So here's my current ranking, which still seriously punishes Ricky for his shooting deficiencies:

1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Derrick Rose
6. Dragic - although I'm not sure he's a PG
7. Mike Conley
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Damian Lillard
11. Ricky Rubio

I think Lowry and Irving are ahead of Rubio as well

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

:)

Long - I think you're right about Ricky's potential. But I'd still say he is clearly a top 15 PG right now. I think these other rankings tens to undervalue stats like steals, rebounds and assists. I don't consider steals peripheral. In face I recall an article last year that made a compelling analytical case for putting a very high value on steals. Steals and rebounds mean possessions - limiting the other team's and increasing your own team's. To be top 5 in both steals and rebounds at your position is a very big deal. And assists are clearly not peripheral to the PG position. In fact, that stat goes right to the core of the position. So here's my current ranking, which still seriously punishes Ricky for his shooting deficiencies:

1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Derrick Rose
6. Dragic - although I'm not sure he's a PG
7. Mike Conley
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Damian Lillard
11. Ricky Rubio

I think Lowry and Irving are ahead of Rubio as well

There's no question that offense is overvalued in these rankings and that defense is barely considered. That's probably the reason for much of the disparity between how Rubio is ranked by the national media and how he is ranked on this board, although I don't believe homerism can be discounted as a factor either :) . Alex mentions Irving as being superior to Rubio, and I would guess that 90% of national pundits would agree. But Irving defensively is the PG equivalent of the PF that he mow teams with, so I think I would rather have Rubio as my PG.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

That list of PGs and the guys ahead of Rubio (and I agree with Alex that Lowry is ahead of him right now too) just goes to show how damn good the NBA is right now. There is a LOT of talent in the league.

PF is another position that is just stacked with talent. Heck, even the Center position has strengthened over the past few years.

I love Ricky, Pek, and Young. But unfortunately, it's tough to put any of them in the Top 5 of their respective positions.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

:)

Long - I think you're right about Ricky's potential. But I'd still say he is clearly a top 15 PG right now. I think these other rankings tens to undervalue stats like steals, rebounds and assists. I don't consider steals peripheral. In face I recall an article last year that made a compelling analytical case for putting a very high value on steals. Steals and rebounds mean possessions - limiting the other team's and increasing your own team's. To be top 5 in both steals and rebounds at your position is a very big deal. And assists are clearly not peripheral to the PG position. In fact, that stat goes right to the core of the position. So here's my current ranking, which still seriously punishes Ricky for his shooting deficiencies:

1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Derrick Rose
6. Dragic - although I'm not sure he's a PG
7. Mike Conley
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Damian Lillard
11. Ricky Rubio

I think Lowry and Irving are ahead of Rubio as well

There's no question that offense is overvalued in these rankings and that defense is barely considered. That's probably the reason for much of the disparity between how Rubio is ranked by the national media and how he is ranked on this board, although I don't believe homerism can be discounted as a factor either :) . Alex mentions Irving as being superior to Rubio, and I would guess that 90% of national pundits would agree. But Irving defensively is the PG equivalent of the PF that he mow teams with, so I think I would rather have Rubio as my PG.

It is but to be fair, none of those guys listed are as bad at defense as Rubio is offense

[Porckchop]

Ricky still has trouble staying in front of quicker pgs. I think that hurts the idea that he's an elite defensive pg.

[MikkeMan]

I think Ricky does good job on staying in front of quick PGs and that the stat that he was the best iso defender of any guard proves that. I think that the main reason why Ricky's overall defensive numbers have not been that good in last year, was that both Pek and Love were horrible defenders in pick and roll situations and Ricky needed to help to cover rolling big. Especially Love's pick and roll defense was a big problem since power forward has been one of the strongest positions in western conference.

In Ricky's first season, he was always going through picks and at that time his defensive numbers were much better. These stats are once again from 82game.com:

Ricky's Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production:
FGA eFG% FTA iFG T/O Pts
13-14 19.3 .544 4.0 23% 4.5 24.2
11-12 16.9 .462 4.9 24% 4.0 19.8

There is huge difference between these numbers. Since Young and even Bennett are much better pick and roll defenders than Love, I expect that Ricky's defense numbers will be this year much closer to 11-12 season than 13-14 season. He can start again going through screens instead of going under them.

Khans wrote in some other thread that Young's better pick and roll defense doesn't help that much because opponents can still run pick roll against Pek but I think that doesn't make much sense for many teams. For example pick and roll offense for Portland with Lopez, New Orleans with Asik, Clippers with Jordan and Golden State with Bogut is much less effective than with Aldrige/Davis/Griffin or Lee. Basically only Sacramento and Houston have better offensive player in a center position than their power forward is and only Memphis and maybe Utah has about same level offensive players in both positions.

Also when Dieng is playing for center position (maybe about 20 minutes) Wolves pick and roll defense will be good for both positions. Last year it was basically never in good level for both positions since almost always either Love or Pek was in game.

[Phenom]

:)

Long - I think you're right about Ricky's potential. But I'd still say he is clearly a top 15 PG right now. I think these other rankings tens to undervalue stats like steals, rebounds and assists. I don't consider steals peripheral. In face I recall an article last year that made a compelling analytical case for putting a very high value on steals. Steals and rebounds mean possessions - limiting the other team's and increasing your own team's. To be top 5 in both steals and rebounds at your position is a very big deal. And assists are clearly not peripheral to the PG position. In fact, that stat goes right to the core of the position. So here's my current ranking, which still seriously punishes Ricky for his shooting deficiencies:

1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Derrick Rose
6. Dragic - although I'm not sure he's a PG
7. Mike Conley
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Damian Lillard
11. Ricky Rubio

I think Lowry and Irving are ahead of Rubio as well

There's no question that offense is overvalued in these rankings and that defense is barely considered. That's probably the reason for much of the disparity between how Rubio is ranked by the national media and how he is ranked on this board, although I don't believe homerism can be discounted as a factor either :) . Alex mentions Irving as being superior to Rubio, and I would guess that 90% of national pundits would agree. But Irving defensively is the PG equivalent of the PF that he mow teams with, so I think I would rather have Rubio as my PG.

It is but to be fair, none of those guys listed are as bad at defense as Rubio is offense

With the game on the line would you rather rely on Rubio's offense or Stephen Curry's defense?

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

:)

Long - I think you're right about Ricky's potential. But I'd still say he is clearly a top 15 PG right now. I think these other rankings tens to undervalue stats like steals, rebounds and assists. I don't consider steals peripheral. In face I recall an article last year that made a compelling analytical case for putting a very high value on steals. Steals and rebounds mean possessions - limiting the other team's and increasing your own team's. To be top 5 in both steals and rebounds at your position is a very big deal. And assists are clearly not peripheral to the PG position. In fact, that stat goes right to the core of the position. So here's my current ranking, which still seriously punishes Ricky for his shooting deficiencies:

1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Derrick Rose
6. Dragic - although I'm not sure he's a PG
7. Mike Conley
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Damian Lillard
11. Ricky Rubio

I think Lowry and Irving are ahead of Rubio as well

There's no question that offense is overvalued in these rankings and that defense is barely considered. That's probably the reason for much of the disparity between how Rubio is ranked by the national media and how he is ranked on this board, although I don't believe homerism can be discounted as a factor either :) . Alex mentions Irving as being superior to Rubio, and I would guess that 90% of national pundits would agree. But Irving defensively is the PG equivalent of the PF that he mow teams with, so I think I would rather have Rubio as my PG.

It is but to be fair, none of those guys listed are as bad at defense as Rubio is offense

With the game on the line would you rather rely on Rubio's offense or Stephen Curry's defense?

Curry's D 100/100 times