Minnesota Sports Forum

I'll just put this simple question out there to put this to bed then. Does anyone think adding Thad is going to significantly improve our rim protection (I would consider jumping 5+ spots on FG% allowed at the rim to be significant) and/or also think we will only have a slight drop off in rebounding?

khans2k5 wrote:I'll just put this simple question out there to put this to bed then. Does anyone think adding Thad is going to significantly improve our rim protection (I would consider jumping 5+ spots on FG% allowed at the rim to be significant) and/or also think we will only have a slight drop off in rebounding?

Thad is going to be a huge upgrade to what Kevin brought to the table on defense, rim protection or not. I get you're an advocate for rim protection rim protection rim protection, but there are other ways to make big impacts on defense. And I do think we'll take a little dip in rebounding, but we're boosting other aspects of this team. To be short with it, the 2014 Wolves will have much more athleticism, a better defensive identity and probably better team chemistry than the 2013 Wolves did.

And I'd like to add that there's a decent chance Gorgui plays 20-25 minutes a night. There's your rim protection. We might not have shot-blocking/altering throughout the entire game, but it's not invisible on this roster. I trust that Gorgui's good enough, as is Ronny, and Flip is smart enough, that if/when we're getting killed at the rim, we'll make the necessary changes as the game calls for them.

I'll add that Dante was a below average rebounder at PF so Dieng will be an improvement if he plays there or Bennet or really anyone maybe even Bazz might be an improvement over Dante in that catagory so that helps. Wiggins should help as a rebounder when he is in there.

khans2k5 wrote:I'll just put this simple question out there to put this to bed then. Does anyone think adding Thad is going to significantly improve our rim protection (I would consider jumping 5+ spots on FG% allowed at the rim to be significant) and/or also think we will only have a slight drop off in rebounding?

"Rim protection?"

I strongly believe that Thad will provide far better man defense than Love which will lead to reduced FG% in the paint over the year. Thad will also face fewer shots per game than Love did in the paint because teams won't run their offense through Thad (maybe they will, maybe he is as bad as Love but the number indicate other teams specifically avoided him in previous years).

If Martin is not starting that will be a significant factor in Pek and Thad having fewer players penetrating uncontested. Pek will continue to have issues with help defense. I have no idea if Thad will be good at picking up penetrators, he can't be worse than Love though.



Rebounding, back to this again. All the balls picked up uncontested will be picked up by someone else on the team. They won't be automatically converted to the opponent. I will try and find some funny youtube videos of Love boxing out his own teammate for uncontested (maybe we should change that to opponents uncontested) to prove that. Dieng did not get the memo because there were many times those two both had their hands on the ball, and Love gave him a dirty look every time - this was commented on here and every other board because it is funny.

Will we see a reduced number of rebounds? I think that depends on the tempo we run. Love was elite at positioning himself to get the rebound, but at a determent of defending his man. Pek will continue to be an elite rebounder as I think Flip will continue to have him crash the O boards, I think his % of defensive rebounds will go up but I think you will see a significant increase in Thads rebound opportunities. Dieng will be better, he showed the knack for grabbing loose balls last year. I have no idea what Bennett will do.

As a percentage, I suspect the Timberwolves will have only a slight drop in rebound % overall. As for rebounding differential I predict we do not see a significant drop.


My turn to ask a question. Will Loves total rebounds go down? With Lebrons knack for defensive rebounding (which is pretty dam high considering he crashes the O boards to the point that his contested % is really low) do you think he gives up all the uncontested D rebounding to Love?

http://sportsmockery.com/2014/09/espn-rumor-bulls-offer-new-trade-proposal-timberwolves/

I'm posting this in the "rumors" thread, because I don't know how much credibility this has. Nick Borges is saying the Bulls are offering Snell, Dunleavy and a 2nd round pick for Kevin Martin. I give a big thumbs down to this deal. Martin is a proven scorer and we will need his shooting at SG next year. I also don't think his contract is that bad, and it only goes for 2 more years. Dunleavy just adds to our logjam at SF, and Snell can't shoot. I'm not surprised that the Bulls covet Martin and don't doubt they made the offer, but I hope Flip tells them to go away.

Now, if they really do want Martin, I would offer Martin, Bud and JJ for Butler and Mirotic, but the Bulls won't do this deal. I can't envision a viable Bulls deal involving Martin.

longstrangetrip wrote:http://sportsmockery.com/2014/09/espn-rumor-bulls-offer-new-trade-proposal-timberwolves/

I'm posting this in the "rumors" thread, because I don't know how much credibility this has. Nick Borges is saying the Bulls are offering Snell, Dunleavy and a 2nd round pick for Kevin Martin. I give a big thumbs down to this deal. Martin is a proven scorer and we will need his shooting at SG next year. I also don't think his contract is that bad, and it only goes for 2 more years. Dunleavy just adds to our logjam at SF, and Snell can't shoot. I'm not surprised that the Bulls covet Martin and don't doubt they made the offer, but I hope Flip tells them to go away.

Now, if they really do want Martin, I would offer Martin, Bud and JJ for Butler and Mirotic, but the Bulls won't do this deal. I can't envision a viable Bulls deal involving Martin.

The Bulls would not trade for Martin. The Bulls owner is notoriously cheap and Martin's contract would put their team into the luxury tax and with Noah and Butler needing contract extensions within the span of Martin's deal in would handcuff their financial flexibility.

I know that this ground has been covered numerous times on this board but Martin's contract is pretty bad. His production in terms of scoring is great and he provides something this team sorely lacks: 3pt shooting. However he is an injury prone player and his best years are behind him, plays no defense, and doesn't rebound or assist. We are a young squad and his minutes would be better used by splitting them between Shabazz and LaVine.

I have to believe that Martin will be moved for whatever we can get... IF anyone will even take him. I have heard people saying here that a contender will trade for him to aid their postseason run, which is completely wrong. Contenders don't trade for aging players with multiple years on their contract, they go for guys with expiring deals so as not to hamper their future flexibility. We have no leverage in any deal with Martin so I don't see why you would even think we could get Butler or Mirotic.

I think Martin will be stretched next offseason, not only to help clear some cap space for us but also out of respect for Martin so he can go chase a ring before his career comes to an end.

longstrangetrip wrote:http://sportsmockery.com/2014/09/espn-rumor-bulls-offer-new-trade-proposal-timberwolves/

I'm posting this in the "rumors" thread, because I don't know how much credibility this has. Nick Borges is saying the Bulls are offering Snell, Dunleavy and a 2nd round pick for Kevin Martin. I give a big thumbs down to this deal. Martin is a proven scorer and we will need his shooting at SG next year. I also don't think his contract is that bad, and it only goes for 2 more years. Dunleavy just adds to our logjam at SF, and Snell can't shoot. I'm not surprised that the Bulls covet Martin and don't doubt they made the offer, but I hope Flip tells them to go away.

Now, if they really do want Martin, I would offer Martin, Bud and JJ for Butler and Mirotic, but the Bulls won't do this deal. I can't envision a viable Bulls deal involving Martin.

Long -- Actually, Martin has 3 years left on his contract. As for the reported Bulls' offer, I'd take it. Snell is another young, athletic upside SG who can defend. He'd fit the type of team Flip is attempting to build -- i.e., athletic 2-way players. Dunleavy would be a solid veteran presence. He can also shoot and has only 1 year left on his deal. I wouldn't mind keeping Martin, but his 1-way game doesn't fit well with the team Flip is building. The three years remaining on his contract at over $7 million per hear seems troubling given Martin's age and injury history.

I love the Snell deal for both teams. Martin is a better fit for the win now Bulls, and Snell is a player who seemingly is starting to reach his potential (looked great at times last year for the Bulls, and looked good in summer league).

Do it.

I would do the trade. Dunleavy would be a good player to have around and open up some minutes for the younger team members.

Lip, thanks for the correction on Martin's contract. One additional year doesn't seem like much, but it turns me around on this deal. I'm willing to become less talented for a year (which I think this deal clearly makes us) in order to not be locked into Martin through 2017. I think the loss of his offense costs us 3-5 wins this season, but it would be in accordance with the direction Flip has us going.

Volans, you make a good point on the possible luxury cap ramifications of having to pay Noah and Butler in 2016-7 while Martin is still on the books for $7 million +. However, note that the ESPN rumor says that this offer was made by the Bulls, so if it has any validity at all, the Bulls owner is on board. Keep in mind that the Bulls are more than $11 million under the lux threshold currently, and the threshold is certain to be higher then, so this deal doesn't necessarily have lux tax implications. I think the Bulls are in win-now mode, and Martin's shooting off the bench helps them get there more than Dunleavy/Snell.

I don't love the deal, but I guess I do it, and it seems to make sense for both teams. Other pieces would likely have to be added to help Flip with his roster issue, as he already has 16 guaranteed contracts and this gives him 17.