Minnesota Sports Forum

I'm not a fan of the Jepsen trade. Hu is a 21-year old pitcher with pretty solid upside and already has good production to back him up. I'm just against trading guys with good potential for mediocre relievers, which is what Jepsen has been. I don't know, maybe I'm just scarred for life from the Ramos-for-Capps deal.

On the bright side, we don't have to see Fien or Boyer in the 8th inning anymore. At some point, May needs to go back in the rotation and displace Pelfrey, who has fallen off a cliff over the last 6 or so starts. Jepsen gives us the setup guy we currently don't have. It won't matter, though, if Perkins keeps pissing away close games. He's been a stud so I can't rip him too hard, but we need him to get it together quickly.

To conclude my thoughts from the days leading up to the trade deadline, I don't see the Twins making the playoffs. I thought we needed a reliever and a power bat, and we came up short on that mission. It's also extremely painful to see the Blue Jays get big piece after big piece. They acquired Tulo, Price, Lowe and Revere over the last week. I expect them to ZOOM past us for a WC spot.

It's funny, Cam. but my first thought was of the Capps/Ramos trade too. With so many teams mortgaging the future to try to make the playoffs this year, and with our supposed ace not able to participate in post-season anyway, this was not the year for Terry Ryan to be a buyer. To his credit, he wasn't a big buyer...he only dipped his toe in a little. I liked Hu a lot as a prospect...you don't often see command like that in a 21-year-old. But in all fairness, our pitching cupboard is so stocked that Hu was 7th or 8th in line. And I agree that it will be a relief to not have to see Boyer in close games anymore. I don't think we make the playoffs this year either, and I'm just going to enjoy watching the development of Sano, Buxton and Rosario...along with whoever else comes up in September. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, even if we drift out of the playoff race.

Perkins is hard to figure out. I never thought he was as good as he showed in the first half of the season as he put up that ridiculous save streak, but you can't argue with his record. After he had 3 out of 4 bad outings (including the All Star game), I suggested to my son that maybe he was experiencing the same "dead arm" he clearly had the last two months of last season. But my son pointed out that Perkins was still where he should be on the gun, and that his issue was he was missing his spots and missing them badly. It's hard to understand how a lights-out pitcher loses command so abruptly...seems like it might be more mental than physical. I like Dozier, but Perkins is probably our MVP...when he's off, we go into a tailspin. Let's hope he gets his command back.

longstrangetrip wrote:It's funny, Cam. but my first thought was of the Capps/Ramos trade too. With so many teams mortgaging the future to try to make the playoffs this year, and with our supposed ace not able to participate in post-season anyway, this was not the year for Terry Ryan to be a buyer. To his credit, he wasn't a big buyer...he only dipped his toe in a little. I liked Hu a lot as a prospect...you don't often see command like that in a 21-year-old. But in all fairness, our pitching cupboard is so stocked that Hu was 7th or 8th in line. And I agree that it will be a relief to not have to see Boyer in close games anymore. I don't think we make the playoffs this year either, and I'm just going to enjoy watching the development of Sano, Buxton and Rosario...along with whoever else comes up in September. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, even if we drift out of the playoff race.

Perkins is hard to figure out. I never thought he was as good as he showed in the first half of the season as he put up that ridiculous save streak, but you can't argue with his record. After he had 3 out of 4 bad outings (including the All Star game), I suggested to my son that maybe he was experiencing the same "dead arm" he clearly had the last two months of last season. But my son pointed out that Perkins was still where he should be on the gun, and that his issue was he was missing his spots and missing them badly. It's hard to understand how a lights-out pitcher loses command so abruptly...seems like it might be more mental than physical. I like Dozier, but Perkins is probably our MVP...when he's off, we go into a tailspin. Let's hope he gets his command back.

Ive thought the same thing about perk having a dead arm but like you said his velocity is up and slider seems to still be moving a lot. Just a bad stretch of games, it's almost like when he gave up that fluke save in Oakland that he lost his invincibility mojo. It's not like he got hit hard in that blowin save. I believed he walked a guy then Kurt had a pass ball (sigh I say that a lot) then a guy hit a Texas leaguer to left field to tie the game.

Jester1534 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:It's funny, Cam. but my first thought was of the Capps/Ramos trade too. With so many teams mortgaging the future to try to make the playoffs this year, and with our supposed ace not able to participate in post-season anyway, this was not the year for Terry Ryan to be a buyer. To his credit, he wasn't a big buyer...he only dipped his toe in a little. I liked Hu a lot as a prospect...you don't often see command like that in a 21-year-old. But in all fairness, our pitching cupboard is so stocked that Hu was 7th or 8th in line. And I agree that it will be a relief to not have to see Boyer in close games anymore. I don't think we make the playoffs this year either, and I'm just going to enjoy watching the development of Sano, Buxton and Rosario...along with whoever else comes up in September. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, even if we drift out of the playoff race.

Perkins is hard to figure out. I never thought he was as good as he showed in the first half of the season as he put up that ridiculous save streak, but you can't argue with his record. After he had 3 out of 4 bad outings (including the All Star game), I suggested to my son that maybe he was experiencing the same "dead arm" he clearly had the last two months of last season. But my son pointed out that Perkins was still where he should be on the gun, and that his issue was he was missing his spots and missing them badly. It's hard to understand how a lights-out pitcher loses command so abruptly...seems like it might be more mental than physical. I like Dozier, but Perkins is probably our MVP...when he's off, we go into a tailspin. Let's hope he gets his command back.

Ive thought the same thing about perk having a dead arm but like you said his velocity is up and slider seems to still be moving a lot. Just a bad stretch of games, it's almost like when he gave up that fluke save in Oakland that he lost his invincibility mojo. It's not like he got hit hard in that blowin save. I believed he walked a guy then Kurt had a pass ball (sigh I say that a lot) then a guy hit a Texas leaguer to left field to tie the game.

Yep...this is not like the end of last year, when it was clear to anyone with any pitching knowledge at all that he was done for the season. That's when I finally gave up once and for all with Gardy and Rick Anderson, when they kept running Glen out there when it was so obvious that he was out of gas. Were they even watching the games?

The team's slumping, but I'm still psyched to watch them tonight. It's going to be a spectacular weather night at Target Field tonight, with the added bonus that they will be honoring the 1965 Twins team that lost to Koufax in Game 7. I'm going with a friend that I played baseball with for many years, and we even went to Game 2 of the '65 World Series together!

longstrangetrip wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:It's funny, Cam. but my first thought was of the Capps/Ramos trade too. With so many teams mortgaging the future to try to make the playoffs this year, and with our supposed ace not able to participate in post-season anyway, this was not the year for Terry Ryan to be a buyer. To his credit, he wasn't a big buyer...he only dipped his toe in a little. I liked Hu a lot as a prospect...you don't often see command like that in a 21-year-old. But in all fairness, our pitching cupboard is so stocked that Hu was 7th or 8th in line. And I agree that it will be a relief to not have to see Boyer in close games anymore. I don't think we make the playoffs this year either, and I'm just going to enjoy watching the development of Sano, Buxton and Rosario...along with whoever else comes up in September. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, even if we drift out of the playoff race.

Perkins is hard to figure out. I never thought he was as good as he showed in the first half of the season as he put up that ridiculous save streak, but you can't argue with his record. After he had 3 out of 4 bad outings (including the All Star game), I suggested to my son that maybe he was experiencing the same "dead arm" he clearly had the last two months of last season. But my son pointed out that Perkins was still where he should be on the gun, and that his issue was he was missing his spots and missing them badly. It's hard to understand how a lights-out pitcher loses command so abruptly...seems like it might be more mental than physical. I like Dozier, but Perkins is probably our MVP...when he's off, we go into a tailspin. Let's hope he gets his command back.

Ive thought the same thing about perk having a dead arm but like you said his velocity is up and slider seems to still be moving a lot. Just a bad stretch of games, it's almost like when he gave up that fluke save in Oakland that he lost his invincibility mojo. It's not like he got hit hard in that blowin save. I believed he walked a guy then Kurt had a pass ball (sigh I say that a lot) then a guy hit a Texas leaguer to left field to tie the game.

Yep...this is not like the end of last year, when it was clear to anyone with any pitching knowledge at all that he was done for the season. That's when I finally gave up once and for all with Gardy and Rick Anderson, when they kept running Glen out there when it was so obvious that he was out of gas. Were they even watching the games?

The team's slumping, but I'm still psyched to watch them tonight. It's going to be a spectacular weather night at Target Field tonight, with the added bonus that they will be honoring the 1965 Twins team that lost to Koufax in Game 7. I'm going with a friend that I played baseball with for many years, and we even went to Game 2 of the '65 World Series together!

That's awesome, I'd love to be there but I'm playing coed state softball tourney today. I work Friday nights and it was nice to hear all the old guys coming in and talking on the radio. They had Mud Cat on for about three innings last night, could've listen him talk baseball all night.


When I was young I always asked my great grandfather about the 1965 team and he would only reply with two words "Fucking Koufax" lol

Jester1534 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:It's funny, Cam. but my first thought was of the Capps/Ramos trade too. With so many teams mortgaging the future to try to make the playoffs this year, and with our supposed ace not able to participate in post-season anyway, this was not the year for Terry Ryan to be a buyer. To his credit, he wasn't a big buyer...he only dipped his toe in a little. I liked Hu a lot as a prospect...you don't often see command like that in a 21-year-old. But in all fairness, our pitching cupboard is so stocked that Hu was 7th or 8th in line. And I agree that it will be a relief to not have to see Boyer in close games anymore. I don't think we make the playoffs this year either, and I'm just going to enjoy watching the development of Sano, Buxton and Rosario...along with whoever else comes up in September. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, even if we drift out of the playoff race.

Perkins is hard to figure out. I never thought he was as good as he showed in the first half of the season as he put up that ridiculous save streak, but you can't argue with his record. After he had 3 out of 4 bad outings (including the All Star game), I suggested to my son that maybe he was experiencing the same "dead arm" he clearly had the last two months of last season. But my son pointed out that Perkins was still where he should be on the gun, and that his issue was he was missing his spots and missing them badly. It's hard to understand how a lights-out pitcher loses command so abruptly...seems like it might be more mental than physical. I like Dozier, but Perkins is probably our MVP...when he's off, we go into a tailspin. Let's hope he gets his command back.

Ive thought the same thing about perk having a dead arm but like you said his velocity is up and slider seems to still be moving a lot. Just a bad stretch of games, it's almost like when he gave up that fluke save in Oakland that he lost his invincibility mojo. It's not like he got hit hard in that blowin save. I believed he walked a guy then Kurt had a pass ball (sigh I say that a lot) then a guy hit a Texas leaguer to left field to tie the game.

Yep...this is not like the end of last year, when it was clear to anyone with any pitching knowledge at all that he was done for the season. That's when I finally gave up once and for all with Gardy and Rick Anderson, when they kept running Glen out there when it was so obvious that he was out of gas. Were they even watching the games?

The team's slumping, but I'm still psyched to watch them tonight. It's going to be a spectacular weather night at Target Field tonight, with the added bonus that they will be honoring the 1965 Twins team that lost to Koufax in Game 7. I'm going with a friend that I played baseball with for many years, and we even went to Game 2 of the '65 World Series together!

That's awesome, I'd love to be there but I'm playing coed state softball tourney today. I work Friday nights and it was nice to hear all the old guys coming in and talking on the radio. They had Mud Cat on for about three innings last night, could've listen him talk baseball all night.


When I was young I always asked my great grandfather about the 1965 team and he would only reply with two words "Fucking Koufax" lol

He was amazing. Couldn't pitch Game 1 because of Yom Kippur, then comes back and pitches Games 2 (when we actually beat him), 5 and 7 on 2 days rest! You can find a youtube rebroadcast of that game out there somewhere...I just watched it. last year I didn't realize it at the time, but Koufax had no command of his normally awesome curve ball all game, so he had to rely on his fast ball only...and he still won! Unbelievable pitcher. The Twins had the much better team that year, but the Dodgers had Koufax...and that was enough.

My first post on the Twins board. Just curious what you guys think our odds of ever getting a true ace on this team? I agree with the approach to not literally dump the farm for a rental this year and our starting pitching has been good, but a guy like Hamels is signed through 2018 and a team option in 2019. I think we had the ammo and he clearly didn't care about contention this year by accepting a deal to the Rangers. Santana and Hughes are perfectly fine as 2-3 guys with Gibson at 4, but we still haven't had that ace since Johan. Is Mauer just too much money to have 2 20+ million dollar guys on the team? As soon as the Jays made those moves, this year was toast so it's fine not making a big splash and continue to develop guys for next year, but at the same time we have the same hole we've had for almost a decade now in the rotation and there was a long-term only 31 year old ace on the market and I didn't see our name in the race at all as a serious option.

Khans, are you asking "will the Twins ever trade or sign in free agency a true ace" or "will the Twins ever have a true ace"? If it's the former, I would say the chances are close to zero. While the Pohlad boys are not as cheap as their old man was, the Twins have never made a deal for a front-line pitcher and I think it's unlikely they ever will. And I don't disagree with this philosophy. Many teams have been burnt in the past by trading great prospects for an "ace" that didn't pan out (look at Oakland last year for a recent example), and the Twins themselves have been burnt in giving relatively big long-term contracts for less-than-ace pitchers (Nolasco, and unfortunately maybe even Hughes). It seems to me that most aces who win pennants for teams are home-grown, like Bumgarner last year. The Cardinals seem to be in the hunt every year, and they never seem to be in the hunt for aces, but rather rely on their own talent.

But if your question is "will the Twins ever develop their own ace", I think the chances are as good as 50/50. They have never had so many potential aces in their farm system, and one of them could pan out. Jose Berrios, Stephen Gonsalves, and Tyler Jay all seem to have front-line stuff, and could develop into aces. I think Lewis Thorpe has ace potential too...he was lights out before his TJ surgery. I'm not as high on guys like Kohl Stewart and Alex Meyer, but a lot of people are. Remember, Tampa Bay didn't see enough in Johan Santana as a 21-year-old to protect him, and the Twins picked him up as a Rule 25 pick.

longstrangetrip wrote:Khans, are you asking "will the Twins ever trade or sign in free agency a true ace" or "will the Twins ever have a true ace"? If it's the former, I would say the chances are close to zero. While the Pohlad boys are not as cheap as their old man was, the Twins have never made a deal for a front-line pitcher and I think it's unlikely they ever will. And I don't disagree with this philosophy. Many teams have been burnt in the past by trading great prospects for an "ace" that didn't pan out (look at Oakland last year for a recent example), and the Twins themselves have been burnt in giving relatively big long-term contracts for less-than-ace pitchers (Nolasco, and unfortunately maybe even Hughes). It seems to me that most aces who win pennants for teams are home-grown, like Bumgarner last year. The Cardinals seem to be in the hunt every year, and they never seem to be in the hunt for aces, but rather rely on their own talent.

But if your question is "will the Twins ever develop their own ace", I think the chances are as good as 50/50. They have never had so many potential aces in their farm system, and one of them could pan out. Jose Berrios, Stephen Gonsalves, and Tyler Jay all seem to have front-line stuff, and could develop into aces. I think Lewis Thorpe has ace potential too...he was lights out before his TJ surgery. I'm not as high on guys like Kohl Stewart and Alex Meyer, but a lot of people are. Remember, Tampa Bay didn't see enough in Johan Santana as a 21-year-old to protect him, and the Twins picked him up as a Rule 25 pick.

I generally agree that guys struggle during the rental period, but I think a lot bounce back well in their next full season. Price was nothing special last year and this year he was a real ace. Same goes for Kazmir (wasn't a rental but was in his first year for the A's) who was even better this year and then got dealt. You look at a guy like Cliff Lee a few years ago who was not good for the Rangers in the rental period, he goes back to Philly and is an ace for a couple years. A guy like CC was a stud rental who went on to be an ace for three years right after that for the Yankees. With pitching, the middle of the road guys rarely payoff (Nolasco's and Hughes), but the true aces usually bounce back fairly well after an off-season. The new coaching staff made Pelfrey viable this year which I thought was an impossible task before they did it so I think they'd do just fine to get an ace back to form after an off season. Our strategy with pitching has never paid off in terms of developing an ace since Johan so I'm not real confident in that avenue to get the ace every real contender has and I think getting a real ace has rarely backfired on a team (maybe I'm just not remembering some big blunders in recent years).

I don't think the money aspect would hold the twins back from landing a true ace. The Trins have handed out plenty of money the past couple years.

It's been said but this doesn't look like the year to sell out for an ace. The team just doesn't seem to have enough to get to the playoffs and an Ace wasn't likely going to be enough.

In addition the Twins have a lot of starting pitching right now. Maybe you want a true ace but there is a lot to sort out. Like LST said the Teins have some top level talent coming up and one of those guys could turn out to be the guy.

To me pitching is the whackiest most unpredictable talent pool in all of sports. Guys can look lights out for a year and a half and disappear. Guys blow their arms out. Random knuckleballers become effective. A failed starter becomes a filthy closer. Johan was a rule 5 pick. I'm not saying you didn't trade for a true ace but just saying its a real crapshoot and sometimes a pleasant surprise when you can get out of someone unexpected.