Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:10 am

Monster wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:59 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:23 pm

Yes, Randle is a proven #2 option on a Conference Finals team, but a) he's on the wrong side of 30, b) he still holds the ball too much and we already have that problem with Ant, and c) he can't slide down to Center without it compromising our defense in some way.

I'm willing to gamble that the cream would rise to the top and ultimately an equally good (or close) #2 emerges between Jaden, TJ, and Dillingham. I don't know which one, but Randle's departure would really open up more opportunities for all these guys.

In terms of backup PF, it would probably be Miller if Naz or Jaden got hurt. I also think TJ could play some small-ball PF, as he measured 6'6" (without shoes) and 220 lbs. at the combine, which is bigger than Jalen Williams. It's at least big enough to play SF, which is the primary position TJ will play for us backing up Jaden at the 3.

I don't think a guy that's 6'5.75 with a 6'8.75" wingspan is particularly big SF but I agree he might be useful as a small ball PF at times. One of the things the guys on Gane Theory podcast discussed WA they thought TSJ was not good on defense last season. I didn't watch him enough to say if I disagreed with them or not. I was a little surprised by that. Of course playing D at wing positions measurements only mayyer so much. Donte isn't the biggest guy but he plays bigger. Jimmy Butler is about the same size as TSJ (which strengthens your point) but he just plays bigger than that.

If these young guys can't break through playing with good offensive players then they aren't gonna be good. I'm tired of hearing how Randle or whatever player blocks them from opportunities. We used to hand guys minutes and that didn't work either. If those guys step up their game they will get minutes and there are opportunities this season for them with the departure of NAW and even to some small extent Minott...which shows these other guys are gonna be given a shot at playing from the organization. This team also wants to win basketball games and Randle is a good basketball player although flawed just like a lot of players.

Ultimately at least one of those young guys NEEDS to break through even with Randle on the roster if the Wolves want to win a championship or at this point even get back to the WCF. If that doesn't happen it doesn't matter whether Randle is here or not here or on mars or the Wolves have a competent backup C the Wolves won't be a contender this year or next etc that we all are wanting and figuring our the best route to make it happen.

Not to get too far into the weeds on measurements, but TSJ is absolutely a "big wing", which to me is length + weight. He weighs more than either of the starting SFs in the Finals - Jalen Williams and Aaron Nesmith - and is also slightly taller than both. Heck, he's almost the same size as Jayson Tatum (about one inch shorter, but similar weight), who was the starting PF for the world champs two seasons ago.

My point is that in today's NBA if you have a true big on the floor that can man the paint like Rudy or Capela or Kornet with real size, then your other four positions can be wings and guards. You don't really need another big out there in most cases. OKC won the Finals and hardly ever played Chet and iHart together.

I want to see this team move the ball and run more on offense and apply more ball pressure and be quicker to loose balls on defense. Moving Randle would help enable that evolution IMO.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:25 am

Monster wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:59 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:23 pm

Yes, Randle is a proven #2 option on a Conference Finals team, but a) he's on the wrong side of 30, b) he still holds the ball too much and we already have that problem with Ant, and c) he can't slide down to Center without it compromising our defense in some way.

I'm willing to gamble that the cream would rise to the top and ultimately an equally good (or close) #2 emerges between Jaden, TJ, and Dillingham. I don't know which one, but Randle's departure would really open up more opportunities for all these guys.

In terms of backup PF, it would probably be Miller if Naz or Jaden got hurt. I also think TJ could play some small-ball PF, as he measured 6'6" (without shoes) and 220 lbs. at the combine, which is bigger than Jalen Williams. It's at least big enough to play SF, which is the primary position TJ will play for us backing up Jaden at the 3.

I don't think a guy that's 6'5.75 with a 6'8.75" wingspan is particularly big SF but I agree he might be useful as a small ball PF at times. One of the things the guys on Gane Theory podcast discussed WA they thought TSJ was not good on defense last season. I didn't watch him enough to say if I disagreed with them or not. I was a little surprised by that. Of course playing D at wing positions measurements only mayyer so much. Donte isn't the biggest guy but he plays bigger. Jimmy Butler is about the same size as TSJ (which strengthens your point) but he just plays bigger than that.

If these young guys can't break through playing with good offensive players then they aren't gonna be good. I'm tired of hearing how Randle or whatever player blocks them from opportunities. We used to hand guys minutes and that didn't work either. If those guys step up their game they will get minutes and there are opportunities this season for them with the departure of NAW and even to some small extent Minott...which shows these other guys are gonna be given a shot at playing from the organization. This team also wants to win basketball games and Randle is a good basketball player although flawed just like a lot of players.

Ultimately at least one of those young guys NEEDS to break through even with Randle on the roster if the Wolves want to win a championship or at this point even get back to the WCF. If that doesn't happen it doesn't matter whether Randle is here or not here or on mars or the Wolves have a competent backup C the Wolves won't be a contender this year or next etc that we all are wanting and figuring our the best route to make it happen.

I don’t think Q’s issue is that Randle takes minutes from one of the young guys. The main issue is that his style of play impedes the development of Jaden and possibly TJ and Clark. It seems to me that Naz fits much better with Jaden, TJ and Clark because he is more mobile than Randle, doesn’t hold the ball nearly as much, creates better floor spacing, and doesn’t take as many shots or use as much shot clock. I think Jaden, TJ and Clark (along with Dilly) would thrive in a faster space and pace offensive system and it’s hard to see how that system can flourish with both Randle and Ant.

As for earning minutes, without Randle, TJ and Clark would still need to compete with each other and with Jaden and Donte for minutes. I’m also not particularly concerned about young players “earning minutes.” Who did Jalen Williams have to displace to earn minutes? TC repeatedly refers to drafting and trading for players who are, in his words, “self starters” or “self-motivated.” He’s right; players who succeed in the NBA are both talented and self motivated. The notion of “earning minutes” is way overrated in my view. Successful NBA players set their own standards of excellence and their paths to success are more about opportunity and talent around them than competition for playing time.

The problem with past Wolves teams wasn’t that our draft picks lacked competition for playing time. The problem was that the picks and the players ahead of them weren’t good - mental issues (Rider, McCants), lack of talent, or lack of competitive drive/self-motivation (Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams). The biggest mistake this franchise ever made regarding playing time was refusing to give Chauncey Billups the presumptive starting slot at PG over the veteran Terrell Brandon. He was talented and motivated; he just needed the opportunity McHale and Flip were unwilling to give him. The rest is history.

Monster wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:58 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:25 am

Monster wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:59 pm

I don't think a guy that's 6'5.75 with a 6'8.75" wingspan is particularly big SF but I agree he might be useful as a small ball PF at times. One of the things the guys on Gane Theory podcast discussed WA they thought TSJ was not good on defense last season. I didn't watch him enough to say if I disagreed with them or not. I was a little surprised by that. Of course playing D at wing positions measurements only mayyer so much. Donte isn't the biggest guy but he plays bigger. Jimmy Butler is about the same size as TSJ (which strengthens your point) but he just plays bigger than that.

If these young guys can't break through playing with good offensive players then they aren't gonna be good. I'm tired of hearing how Randle or whatever player blocks them from opportunities. We used to hand guys minutes and that didn't work either. If those guys step up their game they will get minutes and there are opportunities this season for them with the departure of NAW and even to some small extent Minott...which shows these other guys are gonna be given a shot at playing from the organization. This team also wants to win basketball games and Randle is a good basketball player although flawed just like a lot of players.

Ultimately at least one of those young guys NEEDS to break through even with Randle on the roster if the Wolves want to win a championship or at this point even get back to the WCF. If that doesn't happen it doesn't matter whether Randle is here or not here or on mars or the Wolves have a competent backup C the Wolves won't be a contender this year or next etc that we all are wanting and figuring our the best route to make it happen.

I don’t think Q’s issue is that Randle takes minutes from one of the young guys. The main issue is that his style of play impedes the development of Jaden and possibly TJ and Clark. It seems to me that Naz fits much better with Jaden, TJ and Clark because he is more mobile than Randle, doesn’t hold the ball nearly as much, creates better floor spacing, and doesn’t take as many shots or use as much shot clock. I think Jaden, TJ and Clark (along with Dilly) would thrive in a faster space and pace offensive system and it’s hard to see how that system can flourish with both Randle and Ant.

As for earning minutes, without Randle, TJ and Clark would still need to compete with each other and with Jaden and Donte for minutes. I’m also not particularly concerned about young players “earning minutes.” Who did Jalen Williams have to displace to earn minutes? TC repeatedly refers to drafting and trading for players who are, in his words, “self starters” or “self-motivated.” He’s right; players who succeed in the NBA are both talented and self motivated. The notion of “earning minutes” is way overrated in my view. Successful NBA players set their own standards of excellence and their paths to success are more about opportunity and talent around them than competition for playing time.

The problem with past Wolves teams wasn’t that our draft picks lacked competition for playing time. The problem was that the picks and the players ahead of them weren’t good - mental issues (Rider, McCants), lack of talent, or lack of competitive drive/self-motivation (Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams). The biggest mistake this franchise ever made regarding playing time was refusing to give Chauncey Billups the presumptive starting slot at PG over the veteran Terrell Brandon. He was talented and motivated; he just needed the opportunity McHale and Flip were unwilling to give him. The rest is history.

So Jalen Williams because he is really good would he be good if he didn't get minutes right away right? Isn't the point of any roster trying to add the most good players possible? One of the reasons OKC won the championship and why the Pacers were in the Finals was those teams had depth and many of those teams the depth was young players. There is plenty of opportunity for young guys this year and next year likely even moreso although I would not be shocked to see Conley resigned to a cheap deal if he shows he can still play. I haven't seen the Wolves let go of the next Billups yet under Connelly. He has somehow kept the young players like Naz here the only guy he hasn't been able to keep is NAW and I think we can agree that Connelly has found young guys that seem primed to replace at least a large chunk of what he did. I'd like to see Finch give some more opportunities this year to young players and maybe if there is continuity that may happen more than scrambling trying to get everyone to fit together like has happened a couple of times since Connelly has been in the front office.

Both you and Q make very good points. I think Randle's contributions get downplayed to some extent maybe I should just leave it at that but we can certainly discuss more!

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 10:46 am

Monster wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:58 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:25 am

I don’t think Q’s issue is that Randle takes minutes from one of the young guys. The main issue is that his style of play impedes the development of Jaden and possibly TJ and Clark. It seems to me that Naz fits much better with Jaden, TJ and Clark because he is more mobile than Randle, doesn’t hold the ball nearly as much, creates better floor spacing, and doesn’t take as many shots or use as much shot clock. I think Jaden, TJ and Clark (along with Dilly) would thrive in a faster space and pace offensive system and it’s hard to see how that system can flourish with both Randle and Ant.

As for earning minutes, without Randle, TJ and Clark would still need to compete with each other and with Jaden and Donte for minutes. I’m also not particularly concerned about young players “earning minutes.” Who did Jalen Williams have to displace to earn minutes? TC repeatedly refers to drafting and trading for players who are, in his words, “self starters” or “self-motivated.” He’s right; players who succeed in the NBA are both talented and self motivated. The notion of “earning minutes” is way overrated in my view. Successful NBA players set their own standards of excellence and their paths to success are more about opportunity and talent around them than competition for playing time.

The problem with past Wolves teams wasn’t that our draft picks lacked competition for playing time. The problem was that the picks and the players ahead of them weren’t good - mental issues (Rider, McCants), lack of talent, or lack of competitive drive/self-motivation (Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams). The biggest mistake this franchise ever made regarding playing time was refusing to give Chauncey Billups the presumptive starting slot at PG over the veteran Terrell Brandon. He was talented and motivated; he just needed the opportunity McHale and Flip were unwilling to give him. The rest is history.

So Jalen Williams because he is really good would he be good if he didn't get minutes right away right? Isn't the point of any roster trying to add the most good players possible? One of the reasons OKC won the championship and why the Pacers were in the Finals was those teams had depth and many of those teams the depth was young players. There is plenty of opportunity for young guys this year and next year likely even moreso although I would not be shocked to see Conley resigned to a cheap deal if he shows he can still play. I haven't seen the Wolves let go of the next Billups yet under Connelly. He has somehow kept the young players like Naz here the only guy he hasn't been able to keep is NAW and I think we can agree that Connelly has found young guys that seem primed to replace at least a large chunk of what he did. I'd like to see Finch give some more opportunities this year to young players and maybe if there is continuity that may happen more than scrambling trying to get everyone to fit together like has happened a couple of times since Connelly has been in the front office.

Both you and Q make very good points. I think Randle's contributions get downplayed to some extent maybe I should just leave it at that but we can certainly discuss more!

Monster, No doubt that I believe Finch has a mandate to play the younger guys more next season and to even expand the rotation to 9 or 10 during the regular season. Still, Randle isn't just going to become an interchangeable cog that sometimes plays 20 minutes and other times 30 minutes. Finch is going to give him his minutes and his touches.

My point is that having a guy like Julius is similar to other second tier professional scorers in the league like DeRozan, Zach LaVine, and Trae Young. They simply have to get their minutes and their touches otherwise you aren't maximizing their value plus they'll be pretty unhappy. That by definition takes shots and opportunities away from others on the team even if they are part of the regular rotation. That doesn't make Julius a bad player, but you have to ask whether his strengths and weaknesses are a good fit for where we want to go in the future given the other strengths and weaknesses on the roster.

But none of that matters for now, as it appears we will start the season with Julius on the roster. I'll be rooting for him of course!

Monster wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:40 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 10:46 am

Monster wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:58 am

So Jalen Williams because he is really good would he be good if he didn't get minutes right away right? Isn't the point of any roster trying to add the most good players possible? One of the reasons OKC won the championship and why the Pacers were in the Finals was those teams had depth and many of those teams the depth was young players. There is plenty of opportunity for young guys this year and next year likely even moreso although I would not be shocked to see Conley resigned to a cheap deal if he shows he can still play. I haven't seen the Wolves let go of the next Billups yet under Connelly. He has somehow kept the young players like Naz here the only guy he hasn't been able to keep is NAW and I think we can agree that Connelly has found young guys that seem primed to replace at least a large chunk of what he did. I'd like to see Finch give some more opportunities this year to young players and maybe if there is continuity that may happen more than scrambling trying to get everyone to fit together like has happened a couple of times since Connelly has been in the front office.

Both you and Q make very good points. I think Randle's contributions get downplayed to some extent maybe I should just leave it at that but we can certainly discuss more!

Monster, No doubt that I believe Finch has a mandate to play the younger guys more next season and to even expand the rotation to 9 or 10 during the regular season. Still, Randle isn't just going to become an interchangeable cog that sometimes plays 20 minutes and other times 30 minutes. Finch is going to give him his minutes and his touches.

My point is that having a guy like Julius is similar to other second tier professional scorers in the league like DeRozan, Zach LaVine, and Trae Young. They simply have to get their minutes and their touches otherwise you aren't maximizing their value plus they'll be pretty unhappy. That by definition takes shots and opportunities away from others on the team even if they are part of the regular rotation. That doesn't make Julius a bad player, but you have to ask whether his strengths and weaknesses are a good fit for where we want to go in the future given the other strengths and weaknesses on the roster.

But none of that matters for now, as it appears we will start the season with Julius on the roster. I'll be rooting for him of course!

I get where you are coming from and to be clear I don't completely disagree with you position. Let me ask you this would you have preferred trading Randle for John Collins? I think Randle is a better player but Collins had a bounce back season and I can see him possibly being a lower usage guy. Personally I think I'd rather stick with the continuity of Randle than make that move. Now that Anderson might be even more available he wouldn't have been the worst guy to add if Randle was moved in a, sign and trade for nothing...which I don't know if that was an option. I'd guess we would have to take back some salaries to make it work and that may not have looked a whole lot better than just holding onto Randle whether that was for just a season or for the 3 year deal he signed.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:51 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:40 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 10:46 am

Monster, No doubt that I believe Finch has a mandate to play the younger guys more next season and to even expand the rotation to 9 or 10 during the regular season. Still, Randle isn't just going to become an interchangeable cog that sometimes plays 20 minutes and other times 30 minutes. Finch is going to give him his minutes and his touches.

My point is that having a guy like Julius is similar to other second tier professional scorers in the league like DeRozan, Zach LaVine, and Trae Young. They simply have to get their minutes and their touches otherwise you aren't maximizing their value plus they'll be pretty unhappy. That by definition takes shots and opportunities away from others on the team even if they are part of the regular rotation. That doesn't make Julius a bad player, but you have to ask whether his strengths and weaknesses are a good fit for where we want to go in the future given the other strengths and weaknesses on the roster.

But none of that matters for now, as it appears we will start the season with Julius on the roster. I'll be rooting for him of course!

I get where you are coming from and to be clear I don't completely disagree with you position. Let me ask you this would you have preferred trading Randle for John Collins? I think Randle is a better player but Collins had a bounce back season and I can see him possibly being a lower usage guy. Personally I think I'd rather stick with the continuity of Randle than make that move. Now that Anderson might be even more available he wouldn't have been the worst guy to add if Randle was moved in a, sign and trade for nothing...which I don't know if that was an option. I'd guess we would have to take back some salaries to make it work and that may not have looked a whole lot better than just holding onto Randle whether that was for just a season or for the 3 year deal he signed.

I would not have traded for John Collins, as I believe that Naz and Jaden can be our main PFs so long as we have a true big on the floor at nearly all times which is why I was interested in Looney and Kornet as backups.

I have a ton of confidence that Shannon can thrive as a SF and Jaden as a PF.

My ideal offseason would have ended this way:

PG - Derrick White, Rob Dillingham
SG - Ant, Clark
SF - Jaden, Shannon
PF - Naz, Jaden
C - Rudy, Looney

That's a 9-man rotation with Shannon, Dillingham, Clark, and Looney being the main bench pieces.

Don't ask me how we'd extract Derrick White from Boston without giving up one of our young guys. A man can dream!

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:51 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:40 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 10:46 am

Monster, No doubt that I believe Finch has a mandate to play the younger guys more next season and to even expand the rotation to 9 or 10 during the regular season. Still, Randle isn't just going to become an interchangeable cog that sometimes plays 20 minutes and other times 30 minutes. Finch is going to give him his minutes and his touches.

My point is that having a guy like Julius is similar to other second tier professional scorers in the league like DeRozan, Zach LaVine, and Trae Young. They simply have to get their minutes and their touches otherwise you aren't maximizing their value plus they'll be pretty unhappy. That by definition takes shots and opportunities away from others on the team even if they are part of the regular rotation. That doesn't make Julius a bad player, but you have to ask whether his strengths and weaknesses are a good fit for where we want to go in the future given the other strengths and weaknesses on the roster.

But none of that matters for now, as it appears we will start the season with Julius on the roster. I'll be rooting for him of course!

I get where you are coming from and to be clear I don't completely disagree with you position. Let me ask you this would you have preferred trading Randle for John Collins? I think Randle is a better player but Collins had a bounce back season and I can see him possibly being a lower usage guy. Personally I think I'd rather stick with the continuity of Randle than make that move. Now that Anderson might be even more available he wouldn't have been the worst guy to add if Randle was moved in a, sign and trade for nothing...which I don't know if that was an option. I'd guess we would have to take back some salaries to make it work and that may not have looked a whole lot better than just holding onto Randle whether that was for just a season or for the 3 year deal he signed.

I would not have traded for John Collins, as I believe that Naz and Jaden can be our main PFs so long as we have a true big on the floor at nearly all times which is why I was interested in Looney and Kornet as backups.

I have a ton of confidence that Shannon can thrive as a SF and Jaden as a PF.

My ideal offseason would have ended this way:

PG - Derrick White, Rob Dillingham
SG - Ant, Clark
SF - Jaden, Shannon
PF - Naz, Jaden
C - Rudy, Looney

That's a 9-man rotation with Shannon, Dillingham, Clark, and Looney being the main bench pieces.

Don't ask me how we'd extract Derrick White from Boston without giving up one of our young guys. A man can dream!

Phenom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 6:30 pm I saw Marc Stein has the Wolves on a list of teams interested in Malcolm Brogdon.