Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-was-here wrote:

Perfectdraft wrote:It is lazy because nobody else was going to give up anything close to this amount of assets for Rudy.. What other team would have even considered anything close to this deal?

Huge risk spending all these assets for a 30 year old 7'3" guy, hoping he can maintain his health and athleticism. It is huge risk and very short sighted. Lazy is a great word for it.

Hopefully the wolves get lucky and Rudy the giant can avoid age and keep his athleticism at the same level it was in his 20s.

Do we know that for a fact? How are you so certain?

Obviously we offered the best package since they did the deal with us, but how do you know there was no one even close to us?

Believe it or not, I have my own trepidation about the deal. It's eye-watering in terms of the sheer volume of what we gave up and also the combined salaries we'll be paying KAT and Gobert. I'm probably over-rotating a bit in my defense of TC because I vigorously disagree with the notion of TC being incompetent and/or lazy. And in fact, anyone applying that label to him because they don't agree with the deal are they themselves being lazy.

Q-was-here wrote:Lip, Appreciate your comments as I know you are not in favor of the deal.

- GMs, CEOs, Presidents, etc. are ultimately paid to make the big decisions. Period. How many hours they work, what processes they implement, who they hire around them is all secondary to that. TC made a big decision that may or may not work out. I would never characterize what he did as lazy or ill-considered. He did exactly what he's paid to do. You certainly don't have to agree with that decision.

- Do you not think Lore and A-Rod have their fingerprints on this? Do you think those two guys think this was a lazy, ill-considered move? This would have never happened without those two in the picture. So to pin this all on TC as if he works in a total vacuum with no other stakeholders is in and of itself a lazy statement. We knew what we were getting with these east coast owners - they think big and want to take risks. Well, here we are!

- Your groupthink analogy is valid. I've been on both the acquiring and getting acquired side of the table and seen it happen multiple times.

- I believe the perceived overpay is due to two things: 1) The front office believed, right or wrong, that Gobert was THE ideal component to add to the roster - like a once-in-a-career chance to get the perfect player to fill the biggest hole in the roster. 2) Utah asked for Jaden McDaniels. The only way to not give up Jaden was to give in on more draft picks. Depending on how you feel about Jaden, that may or may not have been the right decision.

- I actually think the hard work is just beginning. TC will have a lot of work to do to fill in the existing holes and use his knack for unearthing late 1st/2nd round talent to fill in whatever gaps remain.

WallyWorld wrote:Long time Lurker...back to the ESPN board days, first time poster.

When I first saw the Gobert trade, my jaw dropped. That many picks! But the more I think about this, I'm fully on board. Name a section at the target center after TC already! Ok, getting a bit a head of our selves.

If this trade works out like it could, we could be dynamite for several years, maybe not Golden State big show, but is it now times for the t-pups era? Lets see how the c-suite rounds out the rest of the squad.

Instead of thinking about this from a common trend of other teams standpoint, why not try to break the mold with the talent we have.

Scoring, creating plays on the team from last year:
ANT = 1A
KAT = 1B
DLO = 2

When this worked, it really really worked. Rarely did it work though.

So how do we optimize that team?

Gobert!

Towns can now be Towns, a 7 foot shooting guard who can drop bombs as a 3 level scorer on offense with out expending all of the energy on defense guarding the other teams big. He acts like a shooting guard, not a center, why make him guard centers? Put him on the undersized PF where he be so so at defense.

Dlo is the true SloMo, he truly doesn't have any break-by-you speed, he slow, methodical, and when he is on, he can throw rainbow's down from anywhere on the floor. How do you give him more space to operate? Give him a big center that sets excellent picks/screens, has good hands, and is great at running to the rim, now defenders need to account for this.

Ant: he doesn't need anyone else, he needs to grow, he is our future. But, Gobert around him? Lets start with Goberts reported fire for the game, that will suit Ant real well, he has it too, they both just want to win. When Ant drives and the entire team sells out and clogs the front side of the lane on A1? Backside Alley anyone, Gobert lobs ALLL day?

Defense?

Come on, we have a burgeoning A1, an exciting young wing that could take the next step in Jaden, and one of the best defensive players of his generation. Kat is improving, and we just need to hide Dlo.

Dlo can be Dlo
KAT can be KAT
A1 is comin
Jaden excites me
Gobert can be Gobert

In TC we trust....

P.S.
Rosas, you didn't know how to act, but you sure as hell knew how to acquire talent. Thanks for giving us the ammo that got us to this point.

LETS GO

Oh, and Hi Lip, Abe, Monster, Q, and Cool....shout out to the ESPN OG's

kekgeek1 wrote:

WallyWorld wrote:Long time Lurker...back to the ESPN board days, first time poster.

When I first saw the Gobert trade, my jaw dropped. That many picks! But the more I think about this, I'm fully on board. Name a section at the target center after TC already! Ok, getting a bit a head of our selves.

If this trade works out like it could, we could be dynamite for several years, maybe not Golden State big show, but is it now times for the t-pups era? Lets see how the c-suite rounds out the rest of the squad.

Instead of thinking about this from a common trend of other teams standpoint, why not try to break the mold with the talent we have.

Scoring, creating plays on the team from last year:
ANT = 1A
KAT = 1B
DLO = 2

When this worked, it really really worked. Rarely did it work though.

So how do we optimize that team?

Gobert!

Towns can now be Towns, a 7 foot shooting guard who can drop bombs as a 3 level scorer on offense with out expending all of the energy on defense guarding the other teams big. He acts like a shooting guard, not a center, why make him guard centers? Put him on the undersized PF where he be so so at defense.

Dlo is the true SloMo, he truly doesn't have any break-by-you speed, he slow, methodical, and when he is on, he can throw rainbow's down from anywhere on the floor. How do you give him more space to operate? Give him a big center that sets excellent picks/screens, has good hands, and is great at running to the rim, now defenders need to account for this.

Ant: he doesn't need anyone else, he needs to grow, he is our future. But, Gobert around him? Lets start with Goberts reported fire for the game, that will suit Ant real well, he has it too, they both just want to win. When Ant drives and the entire team sells out and clogs the front side of the lane on A1? Backside Alley anyone, Gobert lobs ALLL day?

Defense?

Come on, we have a burgeoning A1, an exciting young wing that could take the next step in Jaden, and one of the best defensive players of his generation. Kat is improving, and we just need to hide Dlo.

Dlo can be Dlo
KAT can be KAT
A1 is comin
Jaden excites me
Gobert can be Gobert

In TC we trust....

P.S.
Rosas, you didn't know how to act, but you sure as hell knew how to acquire talent. Thanks for giving us the ammo that got us to this point.

LETS GO

Oh, and Hi Lip, Abe, Monster, Q, and Cool....shout out to the ESPN OG's

Fantastic post

D-Mac wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:Lip, Appreciate your comments as I know you are not in favor of the deal.

- GMs, CEOs, Presidents, etc. are ultimately paid to make the big decisions. Period. How many hours they work, what processes they implement, who they hire around them is all secondary to that. TC made a big decision that may or may not work out. I would never characterize what he did as lazy or ill-considered. He did exactly what he's paid to do. You certainly don't have to agree with that decision.

- Do you not think Lore and A-Rod have their fingerprints on this? Do you think those two guys think this was a lazy, ill-considered move? This would have never happened without those two in the picture. So to pin this all on TC as if he works in a total vacuum with no other stakeholders is in and of itself a lazy statement. We knew what we were getting with these east coast owners - they think big and want to take risks. Well, here we are!

- Your groupthink analogy is valid. I've been on both the acquiring and getting acquired side of the table and seen it happen multiple times.

- I believe the perceived overpay is due to two things: 1) The front office believed, right or wrong, that Gobert was THE ideal component to add to the roster - like a once-in-a-career chance to get the perfect player to fill the biggest hole in the roster. 2) Utah asked for Jaden McDaniels. The only way to not give up Jaden was to give in on more draft picks. Depending on how you feel about Jaden, that may or may not have been the right decision.

- I actually think the hard work is just beginning. TC will have a lot of work to do to fill in the existing holes and use his knack for unearthing late 1st/2nd round talent to fill in whatever gaps remain.

I'm standing by the word "lazy" and don't forget irresponsible. I can spread that blame to lore and arod too, if you want.

TC went against everything he said in his press conferences, so in my opinion that makes him an idiot or a massive bullshitter . I keep answering your questions Q, but I don't think you ever answered mine... which of these two is he?

Q-was-here wrote:

Perfectdraft wrote:It is lazy because nobody else was going to give up anything close to this amount of assets for Rudy.. What other team would have even considered anything close to this deal?

Huge risk spending all these assets for a 30 year old 7'3" guy, hoping he can maintain his health and athleticism. It is huge risk and very short sighted. Lazy is a great word for it.

Hopefully the wolves get lucky and Rudy the giant can avoid age and keep his athleticism at the same level it was in his 20s.

Do we know that for a fact? How are you so certain?

Obviously we offered the best package since they did the deal with us, but how do you know there was no one even close to us?

Believe it or not, I have my own trepidation about the deal. It's eye-watering in terms of the sheer volume of what we gave up and also the combined salaries we'll be paying KAT and Gobert. I'm probably over-rotating a bit in my defense of TC because I vigorously disagree with the notion of TC being incompetent and/or lazy. And in fact, anyone applying that label to him because they don't agree with the deal are they themselves being lazy.

Q-was-here wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:Lip, Appreciate your comments as I know you are not in favor of the deal.

- GMs, CEOs, Presidents, etc. are ultimately paid to make the big decisions. Period. How many hours they work, what processes they implement, who they hire around them is all secondary to that. TC made a big decision that may or may not work out. I would never characterize what he did as lazy or ill-considered. He did exactly what he's paid to do. You certainly don't have to agree with that decision.

- Do you not think Lore and A-Rod have their fingerprints on this? Do you think those two guys think this was a lazy, ill-considered move? This would have never happened without those two in the picture. So to pin this all on TC as if he works in a total vacuum with no other stakeholders is in and of itself a lazy statement. We knew what we were getting with these east coast owners - they think big and want to take risks. Well, here we are!

- Your groupthink analogy is valid. I've been on both the acquiring and getting acquired side of the table and seen it happen multiple times.

- I believe the perceived overpay is due to two things: 1) The front office believed, right or wrong, that Gobert was THE ideal component to add to the roster - like a once-in-a-career chance to get the perfect player to fill the biggest hole in the roster. 2) Utah asked for Jaden McDaniels. The only way to not give up Jaden was to give in on more draft picks. Depending on how you feel about Jaden, that may or may not have been the right decision.

- I actually think the hard work is just beginning. TC will have a lot of work to do to fill in the existing holes and use his knack for unearthing late 1st/2nd round talent to fill in whatever gaps remain.

I'm standing by the word "lazy" and don't forget irresponsible. I can spread that blame to lore and arod too, if you want.

TC went against everything he said in his press conferences, so in my opinion that makes him an idiot or a massive bullshitter . I keep answering your questions Q, but I don't think you ever answered mine... which of these two is he?

He's neither. At the time of the press conference, he didn't have any deal in hand that we know of and didn't know how things were going to play out. He wasn't going to tip his hand and I think gradually building things was a realistic path to follow if they couldn't get a Murray, Gobert, or (name your big deal) done. What's he going to say - "Hey everyone, we DESPERATELY want to trade for a certain 7'1 Center!" Now that actually would have been idiocy.

Perfectdraft wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

Perfectdraft wrote:It is lazy because nobody else was going to give up anything close to this amount of assets for Rudy.. What other team would have even considered anything close to this deal?

Huge risk spending all these assets for a 30 year old 7'3" guy, hoping he can maintain his health and athleticism. It is huge risk and very short sighted. Lazy is a great word for it.

Hopefully the wolves get lucky and Rudy the giant can avoid age and keep his athleticism at the same level it was in his 20s.

Do we know that for a fact? How are you so certain?

Obviously we offered the best package since they did the deal with us, but how do you know there was no one even close to us?

Believe it or not, I have my own trepidation about the deal. It's eye-watering in terms of the sheer volume of what we gave up and also the combined salaries we'll be paying KAT and Gobert. I'm probably over-rotating a bit in my defense of TC because I vigorously disagree with the notion of TC being incompetent and/or lazy. And in fact, anyone applying that label to him because they don't agree with the deal are they themselves being lazy.

I don't know what others would offer. But, considering how there are very few if any other trades in the history of the league that have traded more assets one way... I think it is safe to say that it is an aggressive overpay.

Lost in that is the #1 reason that I personally think this is an massive unneeded risk to take one...

He is 7'3"... 30 years old... the likelihood of him competing at the same level of athleticism and overall health feels very very low. If you anyone feels he will be equally as healthy and athletic from 30-34 as he was from 26-30... more power to ya. I don't.

I obviously don't post much. But this to me... is a massive jumping of the gun. Let the team grow... add another young athletic big. That is the pathway I would have preferred.

Going all in is one thing... going all in for this player at this age with his 0 offensive skill... is just disheartening.

Hope it works out.