Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:Okafor continuing to play well. Houston has no one that can handle him in the paint. Good to see. While I was extremely relieved when Flip picked KAT over Jahil, I still love his old school post game. Good to see him having some success.

It's nice that he is getting a real opportunity and you wonder if all the other stops may have helped him in a way especially his time with the Nets. Meanwhile Fariid is getting his chance to show he can still play. Some dude named Kenrich Williams I seriously did not know existed has 8-11 for the Pels.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Well, guess who hit the go ahead shot in the final 30 seconds for Denver in their epic comeback? Nikola Jokic with a low post hook shot. Who says we can't use KAT in crunch time? It's a coaching choice when teams use a perimeter guy instead of a post to set up crunch time offenses.

On the perimeter, the guy that came up big for them was the legendary Malik Beasley. Amazing how teams like Denver can keep uncovering wings that can shoot year after year, yet we have like three total in franchise history.

Nobody is suggesting that it's impossible. Or shouldn't be tried more often.

Only that it's more difficult. You need to do multiple things to get the ball to your best player in the post... vs. just handing the ball to your best player 93 feet from the basket.

And with all the handchecking and pushing and shoving allowed in the post... vs. your best player going downhill out in the open court where less pushing and shoving is allowed...

One is simply easier than the other...

I agree. However, I also agree with Q that it can be done as evidenced by several examples. My additional point is that it's especially doable with KAT because of his versatility and skill set. He has a great low-post game, but he also has an excellent mid-post game and a great 3-point shot. He's a better ballhandler than many seem to realize and he has an explosive dribble-drive dimension to his game.

The issue with the Wolves isn't whether the Wolves can build a championship caliber around KAT. There's no doubt they can. And it's not an issue of building around a big or a wing. The Wolves, like any NBA team, obviously need both. KAT can be the best player on a championship-caliber Wolves team, but he needs an allstar wing or PG to go with him. Then the Wolves need a third guy who is at least borderline allstar caliber. The hope for several years was that KAT's allstar companion would be Wiggins, but we now know that won't happen. Butler was acquired to be that allstar companion to KAT, but he couldn't stay healthy and then didn't want to stay.

The only question worth discussing is how the Wolves will get that allstar wing or PG to complement KAT.

THE DRAFT

The Wolves best chance of landing that player will be the 2019 draft. The Wolves will likely end up in the 12-14 range, but have an outside shot of ending up in the top 3. If they end up in the top two, the Wolves can get the elite wing or PG they need in Zion or Ja. If they end up in the 12-14 range, there are several potentially elite wings/PGs who might be available - KZ Okpala, Nassir Little, Keldon Johnson, Romeo Langford, Darius Garland and Kevin Porter. Some of these guys (maybe most) will probably be off the board shortly before the Wolves are on the clock, so maybe the Wolves can trade up a few slots. And I don't know enough about any of these guys to have a good feel for the likelihood any of them will become elite NBA players. But it's up to the Wolves organization to finally hit the mark in the upper end of the mid part of the draft. That's where the Jazz got Donovan Mitchell and where the Bucks got Giannis. There are other examples as well.

TRADE

There's an outside chance the Wolves can acquire the elite wing or PG they need via trade, but that chance is really slim. Other than KAT, we just don't have the assets to land an elite player in his prime. And simply swapping KAT for an elite player at another position obviously wouldn't move the franchise forward. If the Pelicans decide to rebuild as part of trading AD, they would likely be looking to trade Holiday. Would they take Wiggins and Okogie for Holiday? I doubt it. Would it happen if the Wolves added our 2019 first round pick? Should the Wolves do that deal if available? Holiday has an injury history and he's 5 years older than KAT, turning 29 years old before next season. I think there is some chance at a Holiday deal. Otherwise, I don't see anything else that could conceivably materialize.

FREE AGENCY

No chance here since the Wolves can't clear the cap space needed to compete for an elite free agent.

CURRENT ROSTER

The Wolves have only one player with anything close to the potential to become an allstar wing or PG -- Josh Okogie. I see Donovan Mitchell potential in him. But it's far from certain and he has a long way to go.

So that's the situation. Will the Wolves end up with a youngish elite wing or PG to play with KAT? It's possible, but it will likely have to happen in next June's draft. If we do strike gold in the upcoming draft with a Donovan Mitchell caliber player or better, then we're in great shape with complementary players like Covington, Wiggins and Okogie.

Wiggins has to go before I'm ready to say that this franchise is in great shape. There have been zero complimentary players in NBA history that have been worth $25-30M annually. That is a huge anchor to the organization and it's one that can't easily be overcome. The Wolves need to get out from under that deal before anything else is done.

Camden wrote:Wiggins has to go before I'm ready to say that this franchise is in great shape. There have been zero complimentary players in NBA history that have been worth $25-30M annually. That is a huge anchor to the organization and it's one that can't easily be overcome. The Wolves need to get out from under that deal before anything else is done.

Cam - I don't think the Wolves have to get rid of Wiggins before anything else is done. I agree that you won't find complimentary players making $30 million per year. So eventually, it would be nice to see the Wolves move him unless he surprises us all by suddenly reaching a level close to what most initially expected. But right now the top priority has to be landing a potentially elite wing or PG. The best chance (really the only legitimate chance) of landing that sort of player will be the draft. Therefore, whether Wiggins is here or not makes no difference. In fact, trading Wiggins could reduce our chances of landing the elite wing or PG we need because trading him might require us to give up a future draft pick. Trading Wiggins would also require us to take matching salary back so it's not as if we'd suddenly have major cap room to sign an elite free agent. We're not going to get an expiring contract unless we also give up a future first round pick and, even if we do, this isn't a destination franchise for elite free agents in their prime.

Yes, I'd like to move on from Wiggins to free up cap space to sign a decent complementary free agent or two if we can deal Wiggins without giving up a future first, KAT, Okogie, Tyus or Covington. But I don't see a realistic deal along those lines. So I expect Wiggins will be an overpaid complementary player for the next three seasons after this one. That's fine if the Wolves can get their own version of Donovan Mitchell, Giannis, or Tony Parker in one of the next two drafts. Wiggins isn't a bust. He's been playing well defensively on a consistent basis this season and he's proven as a good high-volume scorer. Overpaid? Yes. Worthless? No.

Zach LaVine had 26 points on 50%+ shooting along with 5 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals. He's been playing really well lately. It often takes players more than a year to get back to where they were before ACL surgery. I think we're seeing that happen with Zach. Markennen had 18 points and 19 rebounds. Dunn shot the ball well in getting 15 points tonight, but he had 6 turnovers.

With everyone hurt, KAT's and Wiggs' net rtg have gotten better.

These 2 are trying to will this team to wins, weve seen it in their numbers and their effort on the court. They are keeping the team afloat with guys like Deng, Bayless, Okogie, Terrell getting big minutes. I think thats a pretty big improvement from guys who just get theirs. I just dont think they are getting enough help, so they are losing and people are just passing it off as young guys being unable to win.

I think health is our biggest issue as well as the pecking order, not talent.

Weve seen it twice in Bayless' starts that at the end of the game, the ball goes with him. Rose? Same thing.

If this is KATs team, the players sure dont know it unless the coach is deliberately calling for pg action. We should be letting KAT and Wiggs dominate the ball at the end of games with everyone hurt and giving them as many reps as possible in those situations. Just because they couldnt do it 3 years ago as 20 year olds, doesnt mean they can't get better.

lipoli390 wrote:Zach LaVine had 26 points on 50%+ shooting along with 5 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals. He's been playing really well lately. It often takes players more than a year to get back to where they were before ACL surgery. I think we're seeing that happen with Zach. Markennen had 18 points and 19 rebounds. Dunn shot the ball well in getting 15 points tonight, but he had 6 turnovers.

And again, a minus rating. Zach would be better in the old girl's basketball rules where 3 players played only offense and 3 played only defense...I'll leave it up to you which side of the court you would play him on :)

But is he even playing very well on the offensive side of the court? When he was here we knew he was a terrible defender, but we liked his potential as a dunker and 3-point shooter. But on the season he is making a below-league-average 34.2 % of his threes. And he seems to be going in the wrong direction, as he is making less than 30% of his threes in the last five games. Flip tried to turn him into a PG, but many here were concerned about his decision making and ballhandling skills. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to be improving in this area either...in his last five games his 3.2 TOs per game exceed his assists per game.

Zach's only 23, so maybe he can still figure it out. But right now he is a guard who scores a lot of points, but a terrible defender and facilitator and below average 3-point shooter.

lipoli390 wrote:Zach LaVine had 26 points on 50%+ shooting along with 5 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals. He's been playing really well lately. It often takes players more than a year to get back to where they were before ACL surgery. I think we're seeing that happen with Zach. Markennen had 18 points and 19 rebounds. Dunn shot the ball well in getting 15 points tonight, but he had 6 turnovers.

And they lost. Again.

The Bulls are on pace for 64 losses. So let's check out how LaVine has fared in his career.

15 - 62
29 - 53
16 - 31 (team went 15 - 20 without him)
9 - 15 (team went 18 - 40 without him)
8 - 37 (team is 3 - 3 without him)

Somebody has to get buckets on bad teams. Until a guy like LaVine proves he can help even a mediocre team win games... I'm gonna keep considering him a shorter Shareef Abdur Rahim who piles up good stats on bad teams.

lipoli390 wrote:Zach LaVine had 26 points on 50%+ shooting along with 5 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals. He's been playing really well lately. It often takes players more than a year to get back to where they were before ACL surgery. I think we're seeing that happen with Zach. Markennen had 18 points and 19 rebounds. Dunn shot the ball well in getting 15 points tonight, but he had 6 turnovers.

Don't bring this up. It reminds me that we should have had LaVine, Murray, and Markennen on this team with Rubio setting them all up. (Not sure if we would have played any defense)

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Okafor continuing to play well. Houston has no one that can handle him in the paint. Good to see. While I was extremely relieved when Flip picked KAT over Jahil, I still love his old school post game. Good to see him having some success.

It's nice that he is getting a real opportunity and you wonder if all the other stops may have helped him in a way especially his time with the Nets. Meanwhile Fariid is getting his chance to show he can still play. Some dude named Kenrich Williams I seriously did not know existed has 8-11 for the Pels.

I am still a fan of Okafor and was hoping we would get him. I thought he could fit next to KAT.