Minnesota Sports Forum

crazy-canuck wrote:With Booker getting his max extension, I wonder what's going on with KAT.

He's been vacationing in Italy from what I've seen. Extension talks will ensue when he returns.

lipoli390 wrote:

worldK wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

worldK wrote:We can all agree that thibs will not trade jimmy. Thibs knows his ass is on the line this season and only a top 4 finish and 2nd round exit will save his job. Thibs will ride it out and look to win as much as possible. I can see him riding the starters again if that is what it takes to win games.

His number 1 priority is to keep his job and not position the wolves to contend 5 years from now. That is where having a dual role of gm and coach hurt a franchise.

The sixers, if they dont land kawhi is our best bet as a trade deadline trade partner if things get ugly for us. That only happens if the sixers are a top 2 team and legit contender to go to the finals. Boston and ainge will never trade us tatum or brown. Hayward maybe but never brown and tatum.

I think the Celtics would trade Jaylen Brown, but I agree they wouldn't trade Tatum. I'd focus on trying to get the 2019 Sacramento and Memphis 1st round picks in a Butler deal. I think we could get Jaylen Brown and one of those picks plus Boston's own 1st round pick for Butler.

Lip, i really believe ainge will not trade brown for butler simply because brown can become jimmy like in a few years. They wont have to pay jalen for 2 more seasons and he wont be getting supermax like butler can. The east is wide open with lebron gone. They have stevens who has proven to be an elite coach and player developer. They will not easily trade away their draft picks.

I only see 1 player the celtics will trade us and that is hayward. They will keep horford /tatum/brown over Hayward. The best we can get from ainge is hayward plust their own pick for butler/taj. I will be surprised if we can get the memohis/sac pick from them.

The sixers assuming they dont get kawhi is the best bet fir a mid season butler trade.

Wow. Is Butler's value that low? If so, then why would we offer him a max extension? An why did we give up 3 lottery picks to get him?

On that last point context is important. LaVine had torn his ACL. Dunn sucked ass his first year. We still got a lottery pick in return for the one we gave up. Almost every pundit in the league said we ripped them off.

I don't get the push to trade Butler. Sure, he's older than KAT and Wiggins, but what matters more than a timeline is the bottom line.

And the bottom line is this: Wiggins is a seriously limited NBA player with no heart and a huge contract, KAT is an offensive juggernaut who still needs to show he can defend, and Jimmy is the second-best player we've had in franchise history.

I get that we need to worry about possibly losing Butler next summer, but to avoid that we should trade Wiggins and get a better fit on a better contract in here if we can. Distribute Wiggins' inefficient usage among more efficient players and get a guy who can actually defend in there and the team will be better.

I don't know if the rumors about Butler being unhappy with Wiggins' and Towns' effort are true, but even if leaking them publicly is a mistake (and it is a mistake), he SHOULD be unhappy with them. We got to the point last year where if Wiggins made any kind of effort for one play on the defensive end we chalked it up as a positive sign. That's a low-ass bar. We've made so many excuses for these young guys because we believed so much in drafting the future of the franchise, but what if that's not going to work out? In Wiggins' case, the answer is obvious. KAT we can still build around, hopefully with Butler. Wiggins is the dude we need to be talking about trading. We SHOULD have traded him last year for Kyrie.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

worldK wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

worldK wrote:We can all agree that thibs will not trade jimmy. Thibs knows his ass is on the line this season and only a top 4 finish and 2nd round exit will save his job. Thibs will ride it out and look to win as much as possible. I can see him riding the starters again if that is what it takes to win games.

His number 1 priority is to keep his job and not position the wolves to contend 5 years from now. That is where having a dual role of gm and coach hurt a franchise.

The sixers, if they dont land kawhi is our best bet as a trade deadline trade partner if things get ugly for us. That only happens if the sixers are a top 2 team and legit contender to go to the finals. Boston and ainge will never trade us tatum or brown. Hayward maybe but never brown and tatum.

I think the Celtics would trade Jaylen Brown, but I agree they wouldn't trade Tatum. I'd focus on trying to get the 2019 Sacramento and Memphis 1st round picks in a Butler deal. I think we could get Jaylen Brown and one of those picks plus Boston's own 1st round pick for Butler.

Lip, i really believe ainge will not trade brown for butler simply because brown can become jimmy like in a few years. They wont have to pay jalen for 2 more seasons and he wont be getting supermax like butler can. The east is wide open with lebron gone. They have stevens who has proven to be an elite coach and player developer. They will not easily trade away their draft picks.

I only see 1 player the celtics will trade us and that is hayward. They will keep horford /tatum/brown over Hayward. The best we can get from ainge is hayward plust their own pick for butler/taj. I will be surprised if we can get the memohis/sac pick from them.

The sixers assuming they dont get kawhi is the best bet fir a mid season butler trade.

Wow. Is Butler's value that low? If so, then why would we offer him a max extension? An why did we give up 3 lottery picks to get him?

On that last point context is important. LaVine had torn his ACL. Dunn sucked ass his first year. We still got a lottery pick in return for the one we gave up. Almost every pundit in the league said we ripped them off.

I don't get the push to trade Butler. Sure, he's older than KAT and Wiggins, but what matters more than a timeline is the bottom line.

And the bottom line is this: Wiggins is a seriously limited NBA player with no heart and a huge contract, KAT is an offensive juggernaut who still needs to show he can defend, and Jimmy is the second-best player we've had in franchise history.

I get that we need to worry about possibly losing Butler next summer, but to avoid that we should trade Wiggins and get a better fit on a better contract in here if we can. Distribute Wiggins' inefficient usage among more efficient players and get a guy who can actually defend in there and the team will be better.

I don't know if the rumors about Butler being unhappy with Wiggins' and Towns' effort are true, but even if leaking them publicly is a mistake (and it is a mistake), he SHOULD be unhappy with them. We got to the point last year where if Wiggins made any kind of effort for one play on the defensive end we chalked it up as a positive sign. That's a low-ass bar. We've made so many excuses for these young guys because we believed so much in drafting the future of the franchise, but what if that's not going to work out? In Wiggins' case, the answer is obvious. KAT we can still build around, hopefully with Butler. Wiggins is the dude we need to be talking about trading. We SHOULD have traded him last year for Kyrie.

Yeah, I agree with this take. I'm clinging to my belief that Thibs made a great deal in getting Butler because I need to feel positive about our POBO/coach about something :)! And Drew is right...almost all pundits lauded the trade last season. Neither Dunn or LaVine have been successful in Chicago, and Markkenen is a classic example of a player putting up empty stats on a bad team. Further, Butler was far and away the reason for the Wolves' win increase last season (even though many here credit Thibs for the 48 wins, it simply doesn't happen without Jimmy. And yes, credit POBO Thibs for getting him). Butler is a peculiar guy, but he completely transforms this team defensively when he is on the court...our defense without him is nothing short of embarrassing. I'm not saying there isn't a Butler deal I could support, but I don't think one is likely...we need to roll with him and our youngsters and see if we can build on our 48 wins from last year.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

worldK wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

worldK wrote:We can all agree that thibs will not trade jimmy. Thibs knows his ass is on the line this season and only a top 4 finish and 2nd round exit will save his job. Thibs will ride it out and look to win as much as possible. I can see him riding the starters again if that is what it takes to win games.

His number 1 priority is to keep his job and not position the wolves to contend 5 years from now. That is where having a dual role of gm and coach hurt a franchise.

The sixers, if they dont land kawhi is our best bet as a trade deadline trade partner if things get ugly for us. That only happens if the sixers are a top 2 team and legit contender to go to the finals. Boston and ainge will never trade us tatum or brown. Hayward maybe but never brown and tatum.

I think the Celtics would trade Jaylen Brown, but I agree they wouldn't trade Tatum. I'd focus on trying to get the 2019 Sacramento and Memphis 1st round picks in a Butler deal. I think we could get Jaylen Brown and one of those picks plus Boston's own 1st round pick for Butler.

Lip, i really believe ainge will not trade brown for butler simply because brown can become jimmy like in a few years. They wont have to pay jalen for 2 more seasons and he wont be getting supermax like butler can. The east is wide open with lebron gone. They have stevens who has proven to be an elite coach and player developer. They will not easily trade away their draft picks.

I only see 1 player the celtics will trade us and that is hayward. They will keep horford /tatum/brown over Hayward. The best we can get from ainge is hayward plust their own pick for butler/taj. I will be surprised if we can get the memohis/sac pick from them.

The sixers assuming they dont get kawhi is the best bet fir a mid season butler trade.

Wow. Is Butler's value that low? If so, then why would we offer him a max extension? An why did we give up 3 lottery picks to get him?

On that last point context is important. LaVine had torn his ACL. Dunn sucked ass his first year. We still got a lottery pick in return for the one we gave up. Almost every pundit in the league said we ripped them off.

I don't get the push to trade Butler. Sure, he's older than KAT and Wiggins, but what matters more than a timeline is the bottom line.

And the bottom line is this: Wiggins is a seriously limited NBA player with no heart and a huge contract, KAT is an offensive juggernaut who still needs to show he can defend, and Jimmy is the second-best player we've had in franchise history.

I get that we need to worry about possibly losing Butler next summer, but to avoid that we should trade Wiggins and get a better fit on a better contract in here if we can. Distribute Wiggins' inefficient usage among more efficient players and get a guy who can actually defend in there and the team will be better.

I don't know if the rumors about Butler being unhappy with Wiggins' and Towns' effort are true, but even if leaking them publicly is a mistake (and it is a mistake), he SHOULD be unhappy with them. We got to the point last year where if Wiggins made any kind of effort for one play on the defensive end we chalked it up as a positive sign. That's a low-ass bar. We've made so many excuses for these young guys because we believed so much in drafting the future of the franchise, but what if that's not going to work out? In Wiggins' case, the answer is obvious. KAT we can still build around, hopefully with Butler. Wiggins is the dude we need to be talking about trading. We SHOULD have traded him last year for Kyrie.

Good points, Drew. I actually agree with your take overall. I've been lamenting not trading Wiggins for Kyrie for a long time. But at this point we're not going to get much of anything in return for Wiggins. And don't underestimate the risk of losing Butler to free agency next summer. In fact, right now I think it's likely because we're not going to be a top 3 team in the West and Butler's already apparently unhappy with the young guys he's playing with here. And don't underestimate Butler's physical issues. He's played 70 games or more in only 2 of his 7 seasons. That's why I'd look to trade him -- but only if we can get a good deal that helps us build around KAT.

Along with butler missing 20 + games, we would have lost irving for 20 more last season.

Sure he might have missed less, but he could have also missed more.

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

worldK wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

worldK wrote:We can all agree that thibs will not trade jimmy. Thibs knows his ass is on the line this season and only a top 4 finish and 2nd round exit will save his job. Thibs will ride it out and look to win as much as possible. I can see him riding the starters again if that is what it takes to win games.

His number 1 priority is to keep his job and not position the wolves to contend 5 years from now. That is where having a dual role of gm and coach hurt a franchise.

The sixers, if they dont land kawhi is our best bet as a trade deadline trade partner if things get ugly for us. That only happens if the sixers are a top 2 team and legit contender to go to the finals. Boston and ainge will never trade us tatum or brown. Hayward maybe but never brown and tatum.

I think the Celtics would trade Jaylen Brown, but I agree they wouldn't trade Tatum. I'd focus on trying to get the 2019 Sacramento and Memphis 1st round picks in a Butler deal. I think we could get Jaylen Brown and one of those picks plus Boston's own 1st round pick for Butler.

Lip, i really believe ainge will not trade brown for butler simply because brown can become jimmy like in a few years. They wont have to pay jalen for 2 more seasons and he wont be getting supermax like butler can. The east is wide open with lebron gone. They have stevens who has proven to be an elite coach and player developer. They will not easily trade away their draft picks.

I only see 1 player the celtics will trade us and that is hayward. They will keep horford /tatum/brown over Hayward. The best we can get from ainge is hayward plust their own pick for butler/taj. I will be surprised if we can get the memohis/sac pick from them.

The sixers assuming they dont get kawhi is the best bet fir a mid season butler trade.

Wow. Is Butler's value that low? If so, then why would we offer him a max extension? An why did we give up 3 lottery picks to get him?

On that last point context is important. LaVine had torn his ACL. Dunn sucked ass his first year. We still got a lottery pick in return for the one we gave up. Almost every pundit in the league said we ripped them off.

I don't get the push to trade Butler. Sure, he's older than KAT and Wiggins, but what matters more than a timeline is the bottom line.

And the bottom line is this: Wiggins is a seriously limited NBA player with no heart and a huge contract, KAT is an offensive juggernaut who still needs to show he can defend, and Jimmy is the second-best player we've had in franchise history.

I get that we need to worry about possibly losing Butler next summer, but to avoid that we should trade Wiggins and get a better fit on a better contract in here if we can. Distribute Wiggins' inefficient usage among more efficient players and get a guy who can actually defend in there and the team will be better.

I don't know if the rumors about Butler being unhappy with Wiggins' and Towns' effort are true, but even if leaking them publicly is a mistake (and it is a mistake), he SHOULD be unhappy with them. We got to the point last year where if Wiggins made any kind of effort for one play on the defensive end we chalked it up as a positive sign. That's a low-ass bar. We've made so many excuses for these young guys because we believed so much in drafting the future of the franchise, but what if that's not going to work out? In Wiggins' case, the answer is obvious. KAT we can still build around, hopefully with Butler. Wiggins is the dude we need to be talking about trading. We SHOULD have traded him last year for Kyrie.

Good points, Drew. I actually agree with your take overall. I've been lamenting not trading Wiggins for Kyrie for a long time. But at this point we're not going to get much of anything in return for Wiggins. And don't underestimate the risk of losing Butler to free agency next summer. In fact, right now I think it's likely because we're not going to be a top 3 team in the West and Butler's already apparently unhappy with the young guys he's playing with here. And don't underestimate Butler's physical issues. He's played 70 games or more in only 2 of his 7 seasons. That's why I'd look to trade him -- but only if we can get a good deal that helps us build around KAT.

Jon K has made a fair point that if you basically trade Wiggins for some decent players and then Butler did leave you would be left with (let's assume no other young players we have look to be cornerstones this year) with just Towns and Maybe Tyus and thinking man we should have kept wiggins because at least he was young locked in on his contract and would not have Butler blocking him for what he would do. I getbthe arguement that depending on what you got back from Wiggins deal you would have more potential to build around Towns financially but yeah I don't think it's idea either way. Jon K feels like it makes sense to keep Wiggins 1 more year and hope you get more out of him than we have seen before. I just don't see Thibs and Layden dumping Wiggins for whatever they can get. Heck they held out for a freaking 1st round pick for Rubio who it was clear (based on Jon K's reports) it was time to move on by both sides. Wiggins is a different case but he still has a lot of value as a wing player that's young etc. it's understandable people are basically giving up on the guy. The probablem is I don't see getting anything back that makes me want to just get rid of him even if Inwas at that place also.

Also Jon K has reported he doesn't think the Wolves would have had a package around Wiggins that would have gotten Kyrie from the Cavs and yes he said even if we had Rubio that would t have moved the needle. As it's been reported by multiple people the Cavs really values that Nets pick. Hopefully for the Cavs fans they didn't botch it. I like Colin Sexton's competitiveness and he has some advanced scoring instincts (based on some video I have seen) but at this point they pretty much need him to be at worst a multi-all Star type. It's a different group running things now but it's not like the Cavs have drafted well for years. Sound familiar?

So if the Bulls can't come to terms with Lavine, would we have the assets to do a sign and trade for him? Or is it time for Towns and Wiggins to call up their buddy and tell him to sign the qualifying offer for one year, and we will bring him home next off season.

Wiggs can't be in a good place right now with all this jimmy drama while mourning a loss.

crazy-canuck wrote:Wiggs can't be in a good place right now with all this jimmy drama while mourning a loss.

What loss is that?

lipoli390 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Wiggs can't be in a good place right now with all this jimmy drama while mourning a loss.

What loss is that?

A friend of his died in a shooting the other day.