Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-was-here wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

Perfectdraft wrote:Sounds like many believe he will remain healthy and highly athletic over the next 4 years. I hope comes true. I will continue to root for it, despite feeling its very unlikely.

Have a great summer all...

Age of key bigs on recent Championship teams:

2022 - Draymond Green - 32
2021 - Brook Lopez - 33
2020 - Dwight Howard - 34
2019 - Marc Gasol - 34

Dirk was 32 when he won a title as Dallas' best player. Do you want me to go back to the Showtime Laker titles and their big man, Kareem Abdul Jabbar? He won his first title with the Lakers at age 33 and was only getting started!

In fact, the more I look at the data, the more I think it's almost a requirement that you have at least one age 30+ vet big man in the rotation!

Rudy Gobert will still be 30 during next year's playoffs.

How many of those teams over the last 4 years gave up the equivalent of 7-8 first round picks for those guys when they were 30? I can't believe you're really going to use THOSE 4 guys as examples of why we should go All In on a 30 year old Rudy Gobert. 2020 Dwight Howard is your justification for this being a good trade? He made 2.5 mil this year for the lakers. How long did Gasol last after 2019? I think you're only weakening your argument with these comparisons... so just keep posting and I'll grab some popcorn :)

Also gobert and dirk are polar opposites as players... hope you didn't pull a muscle on that reach.

As Cam said, that wasn't my point D-Loser. I was responding to Perfectdraft's concern about Gobert's age and potential declining athleticism and injury concerns. Obviously the last four winners of the NBA title had to rely on bigs older than Gobert is now by multiple years. And I think Gobert is better than all four of them, including Draymond Green.

But I think you were playing dumb, as you are wont to do, just so that you could natter on about what a bad trade it was.

Are you guys a tag team or something? I mean you're both good posters, but I really think you're both wrong on this. Yep, I get what you're saying, I think Gobert could (and better) still be on the level of those 4 guys in 4 years, but what's your point? 5 years from now we're going to have to extend a declining big man just to justify the fact that we just lost our unprotected pick (2027) for the terrible trade we made for him 5 years earlier. It sure would be nice to draft some cheap talent at this point, to put around ant, jaden and kat. Meanwhile in Utah, Kessler has developed into a fringe all star in 2028. Yeah maybe this doesn't happen, but maybe all of our picks don't land in the late 20's either. The timing was bad on this trade (ant and jaden aren't ready) and so was the age of the guy we acquired (at least for the price we paid) But TC and ownership shoved a square peg into a round hole and I think the fan base is going to regret it later.

I mean let's look at it another way too... we likely only get ONE shot at adding another star (via free agency or trade) during the entire prime years of Ant, Jaden and Kat, and TC decided to blow it all right away. On this. I mean this is truly pathetic. It's not necessarily about losing 4 picks that might be in the 20's... what it's really about is not saving these assets for the right deal. This is irresponsible, impatient, lazy and yes, idiotic.

Instead of this trade, I would have signed jalen smith to the full MLE or done a sign and trade for Ayton (if it could have been limited to one first round pick). I would have traded vando and Beas for a couple picks and then I would have kept Bev and developed both bolmaro and Kessler to see what we had. Sorry, I invest a lot time into following the wolves so I guess I'm just disappointed in the whole thing. I feel like we had a really good thing going but the owners and/or new exec felt like they needed to make a big splash and this is what we get.

D-Loser wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

Perfectdraft wrote:Sounds like many believe he will remain healthy and highly athletic over the next 4 years. I hope comes true. I will continue to root for it, despite feeling its very unlikely.

Have a great summer all...

Age of key bigs on recent Championship teams:

2022 - Draymond Green - 32
2021 - Brook Lopez - 33
2020 - Dwight Howard - 34
2019 - Marc Gasol - 34

Dirk was 32 when he won a title as Dallas' best player. Do you want me to go back to the Showtime Laker titles and their big man, Kareem Abdul Jabbar? He won his first title with the Lakers at age 33 and was only getting started!

In fact, the more I look at the data, the more I think it's almost a requirement that you have at least one age 30+ vet big man in the rotation!

Rudy Gobert will still be 30 during next year's playoffs.

How many of those teams over the last 4 years gave up the equivalent of 7-8 first round picks for those guys when they were 30? I can't believe you're really going to use THOSE 4 guys as examples of why we should go All In on a 30 year old Rudy Gobert. 2020 Dwight Howard is your justification for this being a good trade? He made 2.5 mil this year for the lakers. How long did Gasol last after 2019? I think you're only weakening your argument with these comparisons... so just keep posting and I'll grab some popcorn :)

Also gobert and dirk are polar opposites as players... hope you didn't pull a muscle on that reach.

As Cam said, that wasn't my point D-Loser. I was responding to Perfectdraft's concern about Gobert's age and potential declining athleticism and injury concerns. Obviously the last four winners of the NBA title had to rely on bigs older than Gobert is now by multiple years. And I think Gobert is better than all four of them, including Draymond Green.

But I think you were playing dumb, as you are wont to do, just so that you could natter on about what a bad trade it was.

Are you guys a tag team or something? I mean you're both good posters, but I really think you're both wrong on this. Yep, I get what you're saying, I think Gobert could (and better) still be on the level of those 4 guys in 4 years, but what's your point? 5 years from now we're going to have to extend a declining big man just to justify the fact that we just lost our unprotected pick (2027) for the terrible trade we made for him 5 years earlier. It sure would be nice to draft some cheap talent at this point, to put around ant, jaden and kat. Meanwhile in Utah, Kessler has developed into a fringe all star in 2028. Yeah maybe this doesn't happen, but maybe all of our picks don't land in the late 20's either. The timing was bad on this trade (ant and jaden aren't ready) and so was the age of the guy we acquired (at least for the price we paid) But TC and ownership shoved a square peg into a round hole and I think the fan base is going to regret it later.

I mean let's look at it another way too... we likely only get ONE shot at adding another star (via free agency or trade) during the entire prime years of Ant, Jaden and Kat, and TC decided to blow it all right away. On this. I mean this is truly pathetic. It's not necessarily about losing 4 picks that might be in the 20's... what it's really about is not saving these assets for the right deal. This is irresponsible, impatient, lazy and yes, idiotic.

I'm curious if the Wolves did the deal for what you laid out as not an overpay or let's even say a 1 draft pick less than that you wouldn't want Gobert or is it just the price paid?

While this is likely the strongest move to be made for KATs prime, the same is not true for Ant/Jaden. One reason I like this gamble is the team has gone in to maximize Karl's prime abilities but will have options again when those 2 hit their prime years.

Getting Rudy now signals to other players that this team is serious about winning so those also serious about winning will want to find a way here. Putting Ant and Jaden in high expectation situations every year and surrounded by the right players will create a foundation that can be replenished upon.

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:While this is likely the strongest move to be made for KATs prime, the same is not true for Ant/Jaden. One reason I like this gamble is the team has gone in to maximize Karl's prime abilities but will have options again when those 2 hit their prime years.

Getting Rudy now signals to other players that this team is serious about winning so those also serious about winning will want to find a way here. Putting Ant and Jaden in high expectation situations every year and surrounded by the right players will create a foundation that can be replenished upon.

I think this is part of the strongest logic to support this deal. We need to be a team that is committed to spending and taking on risk if we are serious about being winners. Its good messaging for the legit talent we have on the roster.

monsterpile wrote:

D-Loser wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

Perfectdraft wrote:Sounds like many believe he will remain healthy and highly athletic over the next 4 years. I hope comes true. I will continue to root for it, despite feeling its very unlikely.

Have a great summer all...

Age of key bigs on recent Championship teams:

2022 - Draymond Green - 32
2021 - Brook Lopez - 33
2020 - Dwight Howard - 34
2019 - Marc Gasol - 34

Dirk was 32 when he won a title as Dallas' best player. Do you want me to go back to the Showtime Laker titles and their big man, Kareem Abdul Jabbar? He won his first title with the Lakers at age 33 and was only getting started!

In fact, the more I look at the data, the more I think it's almost a requirement that you have at least one age 30+ vet big man in the rotation!

Rudy Gobert will still be 30 during next year's playoffs.

How many of those teams over the last 4 years gave up the equivalent of 7-8 first round picks for those guys when they were 30? I can't believe you're really going to use THOSE 4 guys as examples of why we should go All In on a 30 year old Rudy Gobert. 2020 Dwight Howard is your justification for this being a good trade? He made 2.5 mil this year for the lakers. How long did Gasol last after 2019? I think you're only weakening your argument with these comparisons... so just keep posting and I'll grab some popcorn :)

Also gobert and dirk are polar opposites as players... hope you didn't pull a muscle on that reach.

As Cam said, that wasn't my point D-Loser. I was responding to Perfectdraft's concern about Gobert's age and potential declining athleticism and injury concerns. Obviously the last four winners of the NBA title had to rely on bigs older than Gobert is now by multiple years. And I think Gobert is better than all four of them, including Draymond Green.

But I think you were playing dumb, as you are wont to do, just so that you could natter on about what a bad trade it was.

Are you guys a tag team or something? I mean you're both good posters, but I really think you're both wrong on this. Yep, I get what you're saying, I think Gobert could (and better) still be on the level of those 4 guys in 4 years, but what's your point? 5 years from now we're going to have to extend a declining big man just to justify the fact that we just lost our unprotected pick (2027) for the terrible trade we made for him 5 years earlier. It sure would be nice to draft some cheap talent at this point, to put around ant, jaden and kat. Meanwhile in Utah, Kessler has developed into a fringe all star in 2028. Yeah maybe this doesn't happen, but maybe all of our picks don't land in the late 20's either. The timing was bad on this trade (ant and jaden aren't ready) and so was the age of the guy we acquired (at least for the price we paid) But TC and ownership shoved a square peg into a round hole and I think the fan base is going to regret it later.

I mean let's look at it another way too... we likely only get ONE shot at adding another star (via free agency or trade) during the entire prime years of Ant, Jaden and Kat, and TC decided to blow it all right away. On this. I mean this is truly pathetic. It's not necessarily about losing 4 picks that might be in the 20's... what it's really about is not saving these assets for the right deal. This is irresponsible, impatient, lazy and yes, idiotic.

I'm curious if the Wolves did the deal for what you laid out as not an overpay or let's even say a 1 draft pick less than that you wouldn't want Gobert or is it just the price paid?

I like gobert and I kinda like the idea of starting another big next to kat, so I guess it's just the price. If gobert was 26, I'd say sure lets go for it. But he's not. I just think it's a massive overpay for a 30 year old gobert (making 40-50 mil/year over the next 4 years).

thedoper wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:While this is likely the strongest move to be made for KATs prime, the same is not true for Ant/Jaden. One reason I like this gamble is the team has gone in to maximize Karl's prime abilities but will have options again when those 2 hit their prime years.

Getting Rudy now signals to other players that this team is serious about winning so those also serious about winning will want to find a way here. Putting Ant and Jaden in high expectation situations every year and surrounded by the right players will create a foundation that can be replenished upon.

I think this is part of the strongest logic to support this deal. We need to be a team that is committed to spending and taking on risk if we are serious about being winners. Its good messaging for the legit talent we have on the roster.

I agree. I think this is very good logic to support doing the trade. Don't agree with the move, it's a good argument for it

D-Loser wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:While this is likely the strongest move to be made for KATs prime, the same is not true for Ant/Jaden. One reason I like this gamble is the team has gone in to maximize Karl's prime abilities but will have options again when those 2 hit their prime years.

Getting Rudy now signals to other players that this team is serious about winning so those also serious about winning will want to find a way here. Putting Ant and Jaden in high expectation situations every year and surrounded by the right players will create a foundation that can be replenished upon.

I think this is part of the strongest logic to support this deal. We need to be a team that is committed to spending and taking on risk if we are serious about being winners. Its good messaging for the legit talent we have on the roster.

I agree. I think this is very good logic to support doing the trade. Don't agree with the move, it's a good argument for it

FWIW what Phenom posted is almost exactly what Jon K laid out at one point during the Lowe podcast talking about the deal. I'm guessing he will go over some of the same points on his podcast with Souhan whenever they do one but there is some interesting stuff if you want to hear from Jon K on the trade.

Starting line up in 2020 to open the season

Josh Okogie
Karl-Anthony Towns
Malik Beasley
DLO
Jake Layman (Love those baby Blues)

And we're arguing that 2022 Gobert trade is too much enjoy the ride and hope McDaniels and Ant become the stars we need them to be.

I think how you view DLo affects how you view this trade too. I would have preferred to leave our trade options open for either a PG or a big. A lot of you are good extending Dlo on a reasonable contract as a long term piece, leaving a big as your likely trade target. I would have waited to see how ant and jaden develop (and to a lesser degree Kessler, nowell and bolmaro) to see what position I wanted to target with the one big move. Maybe it's the next player like Murray, maybe it's Lonzo ball, maybe it's Ayton, who knows. We should have let our young guys develop this year and started looking at our big move next offseason.

jester1534 wrote:Starting line up in 2020 to open the season

Josh Okogie
Karl-Anthony Towns
Malik Beasley
DLO
Jake Layman (Love those baby Blues)

And we're arguing that 2022 Gobert trade is too much enjoy the ride and hope McDaniels and Ant become the stars we need them to be.

Do you just want to be decent or do you want to have an extended championship window? I just feel like we really screwed up the timing, but I'll hope I'm wrong once the season rolls around.