Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:How do we know it wasn't Glen that said no to renegotiating Jimmy's contract? Seems to fit the profile.

I disagree, Doper. Look at how much rope and deference Glen is giving Thibodeau even now under these circumstances when almost any other owner would have fired him. Given how much leeway Thibodeau has now, there should be no doubt that Thibodeau had carte Blanche to renegotiate Butler's contract at least up to the luxury tax threshold. But the stubborn Thibodeau wanted both Taj AND Teague and insisted on paying a premium to get them. Thibodeau could have given Butler what he wanted without exceeding the luxury tax by simply foregoing one of those two deals. Just another example of Thibodeau's poor judgment and stubborn attitude.

After giving up all those assets for Butler, it was idiotic to pass up the opportunity to lock him in long term in order to sign Jeff Teague to a $19 million per year contract for three years. Of course if not for the Gorgui contract a year earlier, Thibodeau could have had Teague and Taj with enough left to renegotiate Jimmy's deal.

I think there's a simpler explanation to Glen's rope for Thibs and his loyalty to all the horrible decision makers that he hired. The simpler explanation is that Glen is slow to fire because he's directly complicit in the bad decision making.

This angle of the story seems so insane to me. First we would have to assume that Jimmy had clearly requested a renegotiation in a logical and formal matter, which judging from his communication so far seems highly unlikely. Then I'm supposed to believe that Glen had no idea that request was made, or just completely turned a blind eye to the request and said "it's your team Thibs". Didn't Glen learn from Marbury, Casell, spreewell and Love that stars have baggage with their contracts? I don't know which scenario is worse, Glen taking no interest in the contract status of a high profile star player coming in or him being the one who said no to renegotiation. Or the third scenario which is an even worse reflection on Glen, that Thibs was insubordinate and didn't even tell him of Jimmys requests, and now Glen doesn't see that as a fireable offense for the franchise. The funny thing is that Glen actively saying no to a renegotiation is probably shows the most business acumen of all the scenarios, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that is how he engaged. Either way I'm a little tired of the narrative of "aw shucks, another shitty hire came in and mismanaged Glen's assets". Either Glen needs to wake up after 20 years of being asleep at the wheel, or he needs to admit he has been a determinant to this area of his business.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:How do we know it wasn't Glen that said no to renegotiating Jimmy's contract? Seems to fit the profile.

I disagree, Doper. Look at how much rope and deference Glen is giving Thibodeau even now under these circumstances when almost any other owner would have fired him. Given how much leeway Thibodeau has now, there should be no doubt that Thibodeau had carte Blanche to renegotiate Butler's contract at least up to the luxury tax threshold. But the stubborn Thibodeau wanted both Taj AND Teague and insisted on paying a premium to get them. Thibodeau could have given Butler what he wanted without exceeding the luxury tax by simply foregoing one of those two deals. Just another example of Thibodeau's poor judgment and stubborn attitude.

After giving up all those assets for Butler, it was idiotic to pass up the opportunity to lock him in long term in order to sign Jeff Teague to a $19 million per year contract for three years. Of course if not for the Gorgui contract a year earlier, Thibodeau could have had Teague and Taj with enough left to renegotiate Jimmy's deal.

IMO not doing the renegotiation is also very defensible. Why pay a guy an extra 10 million+ a year when you don't have to? Sure the chance for Jimmy to leave at the end of 2 years was there but to ask out after a year? Nobody was expecting that and this team was actually good last year. I get where Jimmy is coming from but like JVG said on Lowe's podcast when a player says its not about the money...its about the money When they say its all about winning its about winning...if they get their own way. He also said if a guy sacrifices for winning it typically gets held against him when it comes to winning individual awards.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gifdsports/status/1052342210480533504/video/1

IMO not doing the renegotiation is also very defensible. Why pay a guy an extra 10 million+ a year when you don't have to? Sure the chance for Jimmy to leave at the end of 2 years was there but to ask out after a year? Nobody was expecting that and this team was actually good last year. I get where Jimmy is coming from but like JVG said on Lowe's podcast when a player says its not about the money...its about the money When they say its all about winning its about winning...if they get their own way. He also said if a guy sacrifices for winning it typically gets held against him when it comes to winning individual awards.

It seems more logical that everyone didn't want to give him 10 mil more. I also think we're giving Jimmy way too much credit here. Much easier to say now how he went about everything the right way, but that interview just doesn't seem to fit.
I think he mentioned his contract status and just expected it to be taken care of because he was so special, but most of Jimmys narrative has been complete nonsense now, how the hell can we assume that he was clear and concise in his business communication to the franchise? It doesn't fit.

thedoper wrote:

IMO not doing the renegotiation is also very defensible. Why pay a guy an extra 10 million+ a year when you don't have to? Sure the chance for Jimmy to leave at the end of 2 years was there but to ask out after a year? Nobody was expecting that and this team was actually good last year. I get where Jimmy is coming from but like JVG said on Lowe's podcast when a player says its not about the money...its about the money When they say its all about winning its about winning...if they get their own way. He also said if a guy sacrifices for winning it typically gets held against him when it comes to winning individual awards.

It seems more logical that everyone didn't want to give him 10 mil more. I also think we're giving Jimmy way too much credit here. Much easier to say now how he went about everything the right way, but that interview just doesn't seem to fit.
I think he mentioned his contract status and just expected it to be taken care of because he was so special, but most of Jimmys narrative has been complete nonsense now, how the hell can we assume that he was clear and concise in his business communication to the franchise? It doesn't fit.

Remember when Jimmy said at MOA he was gonna get some good players here? Shrug Lowe on his podcast with JVG was like "Towns is the kinda player if Im around 30 I want to being playing with that guy" JVG then said Towns doesn't play wining basketball but a true leader would help bring that out...

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

IMO not doing the renegotiation is also very defensible. Why pay a guy an extra 10 million+ a year when you don't have to? Sure the chance for Jimmy to leave at the end of 2 years was there but to ask out after a year? Nobody was expecting that and this team was actually good last year. I get where Jimmy is coming from but like JVG said on Lowe's podcast when a player says its not about the money...its about the money When they say its all about winning its about winning...if they get their own way. He also said if a guy sacrifices for winning it typically gets held against him when it comes to winning individual awards.

It seems more logical that everyone didn't want to give him 10 mil more. I also think we're giving Jimmy way too much credit here. Much easier to say now how he went about everything the right way, but that interview just doesn't seem to fit.
I think he mentioned his contract status and just expected it to be taken care of because he was so special, but most of Jimmys narrative has been complete nonsense now, how the hell can we assume that he was clear and concise in his business communication to the franchise? It doesn't fit.

Remember when Jimmy said at MOA he was gonna get some good players here? Shrug Lowe on his podcast with JVG was like "Towns is the kinda player if Im around 30 I want to being playing with that guy" JVG then said Towns doesn't play wining basketball but a true leader would help bring that out...

Yeah I can't see Jimmy's side as being anything but I need to make the most money I can in the time I have. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's pretty common for athletes to hide behind cliches so they don't have to admit their position. The thing that is indefensible is Jimmy shitting on his teammates when he didn't get what he wanted. That's just immature.

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

IMO not doing the renegotiation is also very defensible. Why pay a guy an extra 10 million+ a year when you don't have to? Sure the chance for Jimmy to leave at the end of 2 years was there but to ask out after a year? Nobody was expecting that and this team was actually good last year. I get where Jimmy is coming from but like JVG said on Lowe's podcast when a player says its not about the money...its about the money When they say its all about winning its about winning...if they get their own way. He also said if a guy sacrifices for winning it typically gets held against him when it comes to winning individual awards.

It seems more logical that everyone didn't want to give him 10 mil more. I also think we're giving Jimmy way too much credit here. Much easier to say now how he went about everything the right way, but that interview just doesn't seem to fit.
I think he mentioned his contract status and just expected it to be taken care of because he was so special, but most of Jimmys narrative has been complete nonsense now, how the hell can we assume that he was clear and concise in his business communication to the franchise? It doesn't fit.

Remember when Jimmy said at MOA he was gonna get some good players here? Shrug Lowe on his podcast with JVG was like "Towns is the kinda player if Im around 30 I want to being playing with that guy" JVG then said Towns doesn't play wining basketball but a true leader would help bring that out...

Yeah I can't see Jimmy's side as being anything but I need to make the most money I can in the time I have. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's pretty common for athletes to hide behind cliches so they don't have to admit their position. The thing that is indefensible is Jimmy shitting on his teammates when he didn't get what he wanted. That's just immature.

I think you nailed it, Doper. I still like Jimmy, but I agree that what he did to his teammates was immature and indefensible. He has no idea how to lead, yet he views himself as a leader. All the stuff we've seen from Butler, plus his injury history and contract situation, explain why there aren't many teams intersted in trading for him and why those who have expressed interest aren't willing to give up much to get him. We'll see, but I suspect we're going to end up getting less value in return for him than the Miami deal that Thibodeau purportedly blew up.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

IMO not doing the renegotiation is also very defensible. Why pay a guy an extra 10 million+ a year when you don't have to? Sure the chance for Jimmy to leave at the end of 2 years was there but to ask out after a year? Nobody was expecting that and this team was actually good last year. I get where Jimmy is coming from but like JVG said on Lowe's podcast when a player says its not about the money...its about the money When they say its all about winning its about winning...if they get their own way. He also said if a guy sacrifices for winning it typically gets held against him when it comes to winning individual awards.

It seems more logical that everyone didn't want to give him 10 mil more. I also think we're giving Jimmy way too much credit here. Much easier to say now how he went about everything the right way, but that interview just doesn't seem to fit.
I think he mentioned his contract status and just expected it to be taken care of because he was so special, but most of Jimmys narrative has been complete nonsense now, how the hell can we assume that he was clear and concise in his business communication to the franchise? It doesn't fit.

Remember when Jimmy said at MOA he was gonna get some good players here? Shrug Lowe on his podcast with JVG was like "Towns is the kinda player if Im around 30 I want to being playing with that guy" JVG then said Towns doesn't play wining basketball but a true leader would help bring that out...

Yeah I can't see Jimmy's side as being anything but I need to make the most money I can in the time I have. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's pretty common for athletes to hide behind cliches so they don't have to admit their position. The thing that is indefensible is Jimmy shitting on his teammates when he didn't get what he wanted. That's just immature.

I think you nailed it, Doper. I still like Jimmy, but I agree that what he did to his teammates was immature and indefensible. He has no idea how to lead, yet he views himself as a leader. All the stuff we've seen from Butler, plus his injury history and contract situation, explain why there aren't many teams intersted in trading for him and why those who have expressed interest aren't willing to give up much to get him. We'll see, but I suspect we're going to end up getting less value in return for him than the Miami deal that Thibodeau purportedly blew up.

Interestingly JVG absolutely said Riley would not have acted the way it was reported he did cursing at Thibs. He said he thinks that reporting was to make Riley sound tough. Lowe was already laughing because he knew what was coming and JVG said Riley is tough and everyone that matters already know that you don't have to make Pat Riley tough.

Also on his latest podcast Jon K said about this Miami trade that supposedly was close he said "its a he said he said" but the Wolves usually don't push back much if at all on these reports. He said he got back info from the Wolves that not how it went down so he said...he still doesn't know but he tends to think it seems more likely that's not how it went down based on that info he got back.

I am sitting on Jimmy until Adebayo and JR are coming back. They can keep their protected 1st, but I want to wait until they can put Ellington into the deal. We don't need any bad contracts. It isn't our job to bail Riley out of the mess he has created down there. Miami's roster and salary cap makes our's look like the Spurs of past years.

sjm34 wrote:I am sitting on Jimmy until Adebayo and JR are coming back. They can keep their protected 1st, but I want to wait until they can put Ellington into the deal. We don't need any bad contracts. It isn't our job to bail Riley out of the mess he has created down there. Miami's roster and salary cap makes our's look like the Spurs of past years.

If you want JR and Adebayo, as I do, we'll need to take back a bad contract to make the salaries work. JR, Adebayo and Waiters for Butler and Patton. Would you do that deal?