Minnesota Sports Forum

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden wrote:Jaden McDaniels should probably prove that he's actually worthy of a sizable extension. His case isn't quite like Anthony Edwards' where we know the production is there AND the potential to get better is as well. McDaniels has had games where you can see what he could be, but he hasn't done nearly enough to this point. His value so far lies only in his potential.

I think everything is setting up for him to have a big season, but we need to see it consistently. There also has to be progression with his perimeter shot. We should see improved rebounding from him as he plays at his natural position on the wing. And we need to see him cut down on the fouls. Those are my biggest areas of concern with him. I'd be ecstatic if he played well enough to command a four-year, $90-million deal -- or similar -- in the future like Mikal Bridges got. We need to see the growth first, though.

All true. I like that he is likely gonna spend a much higher percentage of his minutes at SF instead of PF and that might help his game. I think Gobert being on the roster will possibly help him cut down on the fouls. He actually fouled more his 2nd season than his first but the wolves played a more aggressive defense which I'm not sure fits him the best.

Good points Monster & Cam,

As far as Jaden earning it, I think stop the fouling by a wide margin and becoming reliable behind the arc are his best ways to getting that contract. I'm glad they did everything they could to keep Jaden and give him that chance to earn a big contract.

Does anyone think Jaden might be further developing his skill set on a team with less talent where he was being asked to be more of star?

No. McDaniels has had ample opportunity to develop his skills with the Wolves. He's solely responsible for his failure to progress last season. I remain high on him, but there's a reason a guy who was expected to be a one-and-done lottery pick coming out of high school ended up the 28th pick. He has a lot to prove.

I would think MN changes there defense due to playing two seven footers and would have a few different schemes they would like to try out to see what's most effective and to have a counter punch for adjustments opponents make.

Anyone hear anything in regards to defensive schemes possibly changing now that Gobert is officially ours?

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden wrote:Jaden McDaniels should probably prove that he's actually worthy of a sizable extension. His case isn't quite like Anthony Edwards' where we know the production is there AND the potential to get better is as well. McDaniels has had games where you can see what he could be, but he hasn't done nearly enough to this point. His value so far lies only in his potential.

I think everything is setting up for him to have a big season, but we need to see it consistently. There also has to be progression with his perimeter shot. We should see improved rebounding from him as he plays at his natural position on the wing. And we need to see him cut down on the fouls. Those are my biggest areas of concern with him. I'd be ecstatic if he played well enough to command a four-year, $90-million deal -- or similar -- in the future like Mikal Bridges got. We need to see the growth first, though.

All true. I like that he is likely gonna spend a much higher percentage of his minutes at SF instead of PF and that might help his game. I think Gobert being on the roster will possibly help him cut down on the fouls. He actually fouled more his 2nd season than his first but the wolves played a more aggressive defense which I'm not sure fits him the best.

Good points Monster & Cam,

As far as Jaden earning it, I think stop the fouling by a wide margin and becoming reliable behind the arc are his best ways to getting that contract. I'm glad they did everything they could to keep Jaden and give him that chance to earn a big contract.

Does anyone think Jaden might be further developing his skill set on a team with less talent where he was being asked to be more of star?

No. McDaniels has had ample opportunity to develop his skills with the Wolves. He's solely responsible for his failure to progress last season. I remain high on him, but there's a reason a guy who was expected to be a one-and-done lottery pick coming out of high school ended up the 28th pick. He has a lot to prove.

I think people put too many expectations on that guy after his first year and during last year's summer league. There was this idea that he was going to become a guy who could really create shots for himself and others and really be a big scorer and I think that overestimated his handle by a wide margin. He's skinny and tall, but watching him move, it's clear he's not really a KD-type or even a Brandon Ingram and he shouldn't try to be. Honestly, he just doesn't have the soft touch, fluid body control, and super-dextrous hands that those guys who can handle the ball and score at will have.

At the same time, even without that, he become a very valuable player. He could seriously become a better prime Robert Covington or Matisse Thybulle with a 3 point shot IF he can just develop the ability to knock those 3 pointers down at a higher clip. Skinny OG? Longer Trevor Ariza, more athletic Shane Battier? I can even see a longer, better-defending Andrew Wiggins (in his current role with the Warriors), but with slightly worse shot creation. That's like, the perfect 3 and D guy! Like those guys, he's super athletic, but just doesn't seem to have a great handle and soft touch. And that's fine. Players like that are really valuable! He can still be very successful if the majority of his shots are assisted and come from the 3 point line or right at the rim on lobs or little dump passes to him as he cuts.

With any combination of DLO, Ant, Nowell, KAT, SloMo, Prince, Moore, or JMac potentially playing with him on the floor at the same time, even when Gobert's out there, we can always have 3 guys who can create shots on the floor at the same time on offense. The most important thing he can do in that case is space the floor, and with his length, if he can knock those shots down more consistently and force the opponents to put a long defender on him out on the perimeter, that'll be huge for us. Given his defense, it's honestly a perfect fit with what we've got.

If he does develop the ability to put the ball on the deck and make things happen more than he can now, great. I just don't see the intangible touch and feel for the game that you typically see in guys who have that potential. And besides, it's 100 times more important for him to just be able to knock down outside shots at at least an average clip.

Tactical unit wrote:I would think MN changes there defense due to playing two seven footers and would have a few different schemes they would like to try out to see what's most effective and to have a counter punch for adjustments opponents make.

Anyone hear anything in regards to defensive schemes possibly changing now that Gobert is officially ours?

One thing I liked about what Finch said the presser is that the rest of the team can't just rely on Gobert to save their ass on defense. He said they all need to get better. I think that was as much about the Wolves as it was about how Utah generally became lax perimeter defenders with Gobert being stuck trying to clean everyone's mess up all the time.

There is no question we'll play more drop coverage. I don't think we'll abandon the high wall though either. It's not like Gobert doesn't have help on the backside in the event he steps up to double off of a high ball screen. We have a ton of length behind him in KAT and Jaden in those situations.

Gobert hasn't played next to a fellow big since he and Derrick Favors started together four seasons ago. Since then his "power forward" has been Bojan Bogdanovic. or Joe Ingles. Then you add McDaniels to the mix at SF and it's just a really unique front line on both ends of the court.

As Cam had said previously, I also expect a lot zone coverages. If you have Gobert/KAT/McDaniels/Edwards/DLO, you can probably throw some pretty disruptive zone schemes into the mix, especially if a team goes small on us. Then they can't go switch hunting and play a bunch of drive and kick.

The good news on Jaden is that he was a 50/40/80 (FG%/3pt%/FT%) shooter from the All Star Break through the playoff series, which was a 20-game sample size. So after a rough start to the season from the field, he certainly came on later in the season and sustained it during some pressure cooker games.

The other good news is that his corner 3 percentage was 36% all of last year and 40% the year before, so he has two seasons of competency from that spot. Where he struggles is taking 3's above the break. I am really hoping that we'll see a lot of DLO/Gobert or Ant/Gobert in the screen and roll and it will lead to some more wide open corner 3s. He can hit those.

Q-was-here wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:I would think MN changes there defense due to playing two seven footers and would have a few different schemes they would like to try out to see what's most effective and to have a counter punch for adjustments opponents make.

Anyone hear anything in regards to defensive schemes possibly changing now that Gobert is officially ours?

One thing I liked about what Finch said the presser is that the rest of the team can't just rely on Gobert to save their ass on defense. He said they all need to get better. I think that was as much about the Wolves as it was about how Utah generally became lax perimeter defenders with Gobert being stuck trying to clean everyone's mess up all the time.

There is no question we'll play more drop coverage. I don't think we'll abandon the high wall though either. It's not like Gobert doesn't have help on the backside in the event he steps up to double off of a high ball screen. We have a ton of length behind him in KAT and Jaden in those situations.

Gobert hasn't played next to a fellow big since he and Derrick Favors started together four seasons ago. Since then his "power forward" has been Bojan Bogdanovic. or Joe Ingles. Then you add McDaniels to the mix at SF and it's just a really unique front line on both ends of the court.

As Cam had said previously, I also expect a lot zone coverages. If you have Gobert/KAT/McDaniels/Edwards/DLO, you can probably throw some pretty disruptive zone schemes into the mix, especially if a team goes small on us. Then they can't go switch hunting and play a bunch of drive and kick.

When the media talked to Finch after the PC someone asked about defensive schemes and Finch said of course they are going to do more looks but he said they are still going to play aggressive on the perimeter. The video of Finch and Connelly is on YouTube.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden wrote:Jaden McDaniels should probably prove that he's actually worthy of a sizable extension. His case isn't quite like Anthony Edwards' where we know the production is there AND the potential to get better is as well. McDaniels has had games where you can see what he could be, but he hasn't done nearly enough to this point. His value so far lies only in his potential.

I think everything is setting up for him to have a big season, but we need to see it consistently. There also has to be progression with his perimeter shot. We should see improved rebounding from him as he plays at his natural position on the wing. And we need to see him cut down on the fouls. Those are my biggest areas of concern with him. I'd be ecstatic if he played well enough to command a four-year, $90-million deal -- or similar -- in the future like Mikal Bridges got. We need to see the growth first, though.

All true. I like that he is likely gonna spend a much higher percentage of his minutes at SF instead of PF and that might help his game. I think Gobert being on the roster will possibly help him cut down on the fouls. He actually fouled more his 2nd season than his first but the wolves played a more aggressive defense which I'm not sure fits him the best.

Good points Monster & Cam,

As far as Jaden earning it, I think stop the fouling by a wide margin and becoming reliable behind the arc are his best ways to getting that contract. I'm glad they did everything they could to keep Jaden and give him that chance to earn a big contract.

Does anyone think Jaden might be further developing his skill set on a team with less talent where he was being asked to be more of star?

No. McDaniels has had ample opportunity to develop his skills with the Wolves. He's solely responsible for his failure to progress last season. I remain high on him, but there's a reason a guy who was expected to be a one-and-done lottery pick coming out of high school ended up the 28th pick. He has a lot to prove.

I think people put too many expectations on that guy after his first year and during last year's summer league. There was this idea that he was going to become a guy who could really create shots for himself and others and really be a big scorer and I think that overestimated his handle by a wide margin. He's skinny and tall, but watching him move, it's clear he's not really a KD-type or even a Brandon Ingram and he shouldn't try to be. Honestly, he just doesn't have the soft touch, fluid body control, and super-dextrous hands that those guys who can handle the ball and score at will have.

At the same time, even without that, he become a very valuable player. He could seriously become a better prime Robert Covington or Matisse Thybulle with a 3 point shot IF he can just develop the ability to knock those 3 pointers down at a higher clip. Skinny OG? Longer Trevor Ariza, more athletic Shane Battier? I can even see a longer, better-defending Andrew Wiggins (in his current role with the Warriors), but with slightly worse shot creation. That's like, the perfect 3 and D guy! Like those guys, he's super athletic, but just doesn't seem to have a great handle and soft touch. And that's fine. Players like that are really valuable! He can still be very successful if the majority of his shots are assisted and come from the 3 point line or right at the rim on lobs or little dump passes to him as he cuts.

With any combination of DLO, Ant, Nowell, KAT, SloMo, Prince, Moore, or JMac potentially playing with him on the floor at the same time, even when Gobert's out there, we can always have 3 guys who can create shots on the floor at the same time on offense. The most important thing he can do in that case is space the floor, and with his length, if he can knock those shots down more consistently and force the opponents to put a long defender on him out on the perimeter, that'll be huge for us. Given his defense, it's honestly a perfect fit with what we've got.

If he does develop the ability to put the ball on the deck and make things happen more than he can now, great. I just don't see the intangible touch and feel for the game that you typically see in guys who have that potential. And besides, it's 100 times more important for him to just be able to knock down outside shots at at least an average clip.

It looks like OG is a pretty good offensive player.

One think Jaden has is that soft touch on his jumper nearer the basket. He doesn't have to get all the way to the rim to score. He did show some glimpses here and there of being able to create his own shot. He is working with Kwahi Leonard this off-season. I'm not expecting him to become an all-star level scorer or something but he think he has more potential than Robert Covington who is a guy that can straight line drive to the basket after someone flys by on a close out. McDaniels certainly has a long way to go and for one thing he has to actually hit those 3s which he mostly did after a poor start but I think the Wolves are gonna be giving him more minutes this year which will up his opportunities to show who he is...or isn't. The thing about him is that his floor is still likely a useful player.

We don't really need Jaden McDaniels to become a priority option on offense. He just has to keep defenses honest. His perimeter shot has to be good enough for defenders to respect it and pay attention to him versus sagging and clogging the paint. He also needs to be able to attack closeouts with straight line drives, which is something I believe he can already do. Anything else he can provide on that end is extra.

I am most excited for Jaden having some freedom to roam and help on D. If his offense continues to improve he is going to be a really nice player. The defense is going to be fun to watch, if we're not top 5 id be a bit disspointed.

McDaniels will never drop 25 on you night in and night out. He probably doesn't have enough "do stuff" tricks in his bag to become a star role player like Draymond or Iggy are/were. He's also not vocal enough to be the spirit engine of the team. He doesn't score enough naturally to be a Wiggins type. But he sure could become a Mikal Bridges type if he can convert more on that nice looking shot of his. Give him time. In my view that is probably his ceiling unless something drastically changes.

He's made improvements since he has been here
Small ones, but improvements none the less
From all reports you couldn't pry McDaniels away from the timberwolves with a crow bar as a rival executive.
If that truly is the talking heads sentiment on him, I doubt it's because they think he could only become a Robert Covington or a Trevor Ariza type of player, no disrespect to them. Necessary pieces on a winning team, hard to find for sure, but not irreplaceable pieces.