Minnesota Sports Forum

Monster, the Magic were 17th in the NBA last year in three-pointers made per game, but no team in the NBA made less threes than the Wolves at 8.0 per game. I do agree that Orlando doesn't have shooting in abundance, however. They were, in fact, 28th in 3P-percentage. I still think they could have real interest in a deal like this, though. While Fournier's a very nice player, he doesn't necessarily have that star potential and the Magic are still searching for franchise cornerstones. For them, the reward might be worth the risk.

The Magic do take on long-term salary, but it's perhaps less of a killer for them with Vucevic on an expiring and Bamba on a rookie scale contract. Once Vucevic is off the books, they're looking at $20M at the center position for Bamba and Dieng. That's really not too bad. Wiggins' money plays into the risk/reward above.

Lastly, Fournier's one of the better catch-and-shoot players in the league. His EFG% in such situations last season of 58.0% was better than Jrue Holiday, Kevin Love, Paul George, Khris Middleton, Tyreke Evans, and Eric Gordon to name a few. And something to consider, he's much better off-ball than Andrew Wiggins is. Only 47.0% of Wiggins' 2P field goals were assisted last year, which was a step up from the 41.4% in his third season while playing next to Rubio. Andrew's a guy that wants to create his own shot. Fournier, on the other hand, was assisted on a whopping 57.3% of his 2P field goals last year. To me, that indicates that Fournier is more active/productive off-ball whether it's running off screens or cutting towards the hoop.

khans2k5 wrote:I say no to that deal. I'm not trading Wiggins for bench pieces and a borderline starter in Fournier. With Jimmy being able to leave, that's just a disaster if Towns is the only one left going into next year. Towns/Wiggins is still recoverable and can be built around if Jimmy leaves. I would want either Gordon or Isaac back in the deal or I would say no deal. It doesn't make us better in any significant way and makes the future outlook bleaker when we need to be trying to convince Jimmy to stay.

Understandable, but I disagree that Fournier is a borderline starter. Regardless, I won't split hairs over that. This trade idea ultimately comes down to how you view Andrew Wiggins and you have always had more hope for him than I have.

If Jimmy Butler leaves via free agency, it won't matter whether we have Evan Fournier or Andrew Wiggins starting at the wing. This team won't be making the playoffs and we'll be reshuffling pieces anyways.

We certainly wouldn't get Aaron Gordon back in a trade for Wiggins; Gordon's a better overall player right now with just as high of a ceiling. I don't see Isaac being available either considering he's entering just his second year.

I think we actually get much better after this trade, which likely would result in more wins during the regular season and a higher playoff seed. And winnng is going to be what keeps Butler around -- not hoping and praying for the light bulb to finally go on with Wiggins.

Camden0916 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:I say no to that deal. I'm not trading Wiggins for bench pieces and a borderline starter in Fournier. With Jimmy being able to leave, that's just a disaster if Towns is the only one left going into next year. Towns/Wiggins is still recoverable and can be built around if Jimmy leaves. I would want either Gordon or Isaac back in the deal or I would say no deal. It doesn't make us better in any significant way and makes the future outlook bleaker when we need to be trying to convince Jimmy to stay.

Understandable, but I disagree that Fournier is a borderline starter. Regardless, I won't split hairs over that. This trade idea ultimately comes down to how you view Andrew Wiggins and you have always had more hope for him than I have.

If Jimmy Butler leaves via free agency, it won't matter whether we have Evan Fournier or Andrew Wiggins starting at the wing. This team won't be making the playoffs and we'll be reshuffling pieces anyways.

We certainly wouldn't get Aaron Gordon back in a trade for Wiggins; Gordon's a better overall player right now with just as high of a ceiling. I don't see Isaac being available either considering he's entering just his second year.

I think we actually get much better after this trade, which likely would result in more wins during the regular season and a higher playoff seed. And winnng is going to be what keeps Butler around -- not hoping and praying for the light bulb to finally go on with Wiggins.

What good teams has Fournier been on? He's been in the playoffs once in his 6 year NBA career and it was during his rookie year. I just think too many people see stats and say just put that on our team and it'll work. He's worth a whopping 1.2 wins more than Wiggins so no we wouldn't be significantly better with him. He's putting up decent, but not great or special numbers on bad teams. Knock him down the totem pole like Wiggins last year and you just aren't getting the same guy so his value is overstated. I 100% believe Fournier/Simmons/Biyombo does nothing to convince Jimmy to stay. Winning more games only matters if there is a light at the end of the tunnel and you turn off that light by trading in Wiggins for role players. We have the ability to get the 3 seed with either Wiggins/Dieng or your trio, but Wiggins/Dieng has much higher room for improvement than option B so that to me would clearly be the more enticing stay for Jimmy than on a team full of role players.

Camden wrote:Monster, the Magic were 17th in the NBA last year in three-pointers made per game, but no team in the NBA made less threes than the Wolves at 8.0 per game. I do agree that Orlando doesn't have shooting in abundance, however. They were, in fact, 28th in 3P-percentage. I still think they could have real interest in a deal like this, though. While Fournier's a very nice player, he doesn't necessarily have that star potential and the Magic are still searching for franchise cornerstones. For them, the reward might be worth the risk.

The Magic do take on long-term salary, but it's perhaps less of a killer for them with Vucevic on an expiring and Bamba on a rookie scale contract. Once Vucevic is off the books, they're looking at $20M at the center position for Bamba and Dieng. That's really not too bad. Wiggins' money plays into the risk/reward above.

Lastly, Fournier's one of the better catch-and-shoot players in the league. His EFG% in such situations last season of 58.0% was better than Jrue Holiday, Kevin Love, Paul George, Khris Middleton, Tyreke Evans, and Eric Gordon to name a few. And something to consider, he's much better off-ball than Andrew Wiggins is. Only 47.0% of Wiggins' 2P field goals were assisted last year, which was a step up from the 41.4% in his third season while playing next to Rubio. Andrew's a guy that wants to create his own shot. Fournier, on the other hand, was assisted on a whopping 57.3% of his 2P field goals last year. To me, that indicates that Fournier is more active/productive off-ball whether it's running off screens or cutting towards the hoop.

Interesting numbers on Fournier. I've been a fan of his for a while. Regardless of the numbers he clearly has more of a skillset to be a compliment than Wiggins but those numbers make an even better case. like its been said in a few posts about this trade it comes down to how you feel about Fournier and Wiggins. To me if its even close you do the deal because Simmons is a worthwhile player (Fournier and Simmons might make us better this year) and the salary savings as time goes on is quite massive. Biyambo was horrific last year (CAMELO projections are Jamal bad) but the savings are pretty big. I'm starting to not believe in Dieng being useful anymore so i would absolutely move him to save a bunch of future money. I'm hoping to be wrong on Dieng because he will be here for another year.

One other consideration is that Wiggins has all the physical attributes to be a SF and even a smallball PF. Okogie (lets say hypothetically there is a real belief he becomes a core piece) can probably do more than just be a SG but Fournier I don't think has quite that much position flexibility so better being played as a SG which is where Okogie should project to play his minutes if he turns out to be a legit piece. Fournier would be a nice bench piece and I saw he was tired of playing on a losing team he may have interest in sticking around long term playing a significant role on a good team. Again I think the injury thing hold me back but this trade really make me question where I really stand with Wiggins...

Selling low on Wigigns is a bad idea no matter how you feel about Fournier. He couldn't be at a worse point value wise to trade then now. Just bad business all basketball analysis aside.

That being said tome Jonathan Issac or someone with upside potential would have to be on the table to want to pick up the phone on a Wiggins deal.

thedoper wrote:Selling low on Wigigns is a bad idea no matter how you feel about Fournier. He couldn't be at a worse point value wise to trade then now. Just bad business all basketball analysis aside.

That being said tome Jonathan Issac or someone with upside potential would have to be on the table to want to pick up the phone on a Wiggins deal.

I agree. If we're going to move Wiggins or Butler at this point, we have to get a likely high future lottery pick or a very young player with very big upside. Trading Wiggins or even Gorgui right now would definitely be selling low. Both took a step back last season. I don't see either one getting worse and I can definitely see both getting better. I think the luster has already worn off on Wiggins, so I don't think we can get high return value based on his potential like we probably could have a year ago. We need him to take a significant step forward this season, in which case he's either worth keeping or he can fetch better value in the trade market.

Psst... I'm not even sure the Magic make that trade. They're giving up the best player in the deal and taking back a lot of long-term money. Asking for a young player with immense upside in return for Wiggins is probably unreasonable considering that's exactly what the lure of Wiggins is supposed to be -- young player with upside. And you can't realistically use him to acquire a star because he's just not good enough but yet he has a max contract attached to him.

We knew this was coming. Don't know the numbers, yet, but I suspect it as the minimum...

Jon Krawczynski ?@JonKrawczynski
17s17 seconds ago
Keita Bates-Diop signed his contract with Wolves today. League sources tell @TheAthletic the 2nd RD pick gets a 3-year deal, with the first 2 fully guaranteed

60WinTim wrote:We knew this was coming. Don't know the numbers, yet, but I suspect it as the minimum...

Jon Krawczynski ?@JonKrawczynski
17s17 seconds ago
Keita Bates-Diop signed his contract with Wolves today. League sources tell @TheAthletic the 2nd RD pick gets a 3-year deal, with the first 2 fully guaranteed

Below is a link of an article outlining the options of what the Wolves could do with KBD's contract with examples. Its pretty amazing that Sam Heinke is basically credited to changing how various teams deal with the bottom of their rosters. Sorta impressive in a way.

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/7/6/17526704/what-should-the-keita-bates-diop-contract-look-like

Updates on the Wolves.

Wolfson reports Aldrich was stretched and it now shows up that way on Basketball insiders when it was not previously. So now his contract for this year only counts $685,341.00 and the same amount for the next 2 subsequent years. This gives the Wolves a bit of breathing room. They can sign 2 vet min guys and even a rookie (to completely fill the roster which I doubt they do) and still have over $700,000 left over. So they could sweeten the pot a little to get a guy that might otherwise just get the vet min. It would also alllow for some non-guaranteed portions of contracts. I don't like stretching guys but I can see the idea of doing it as well.

The Cavs are watching a Treveon Graham workout in Vegas. It's been reported the Wolves are interested and Wolfson reports Thibs has spoke directly with Graham.

In other news the Wolves are interested in Nick Young. This team does need shooting but at what cost? I guess I can't rip them for checking in at least. Hopefully they end up with another player. Nick Young is a gamble.

One player that's intruiging if you want a athletic edge I've tim protector is Eric Moreland who was waived by the Pistons after adding Zaza. His per 36 numbers are plenty solid (doesn't score) and his advanced stats defensively look pretty good. He played a handful of games in the league before this year but basically you are going off a 1 year sample. I still lean towards adding more shooting and ball handling but if we can get a hustle big that's good defensively for the vet min that's something to consider.