Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:Lip from what's I have been hearing about Fox's athletic abilities are going to be very difficult to pass on and he loves to play defense. Remember that one game he played against Ball...? :) people keep saying it would be fun if Ball would argue to a head to head workout against Fox but nobody expects that to happen.

Like you said though there are scenarios where all thise guys you mention are gone. It could also hurt options of trading down because there would be 3 guards sitting there. I still think the Wolves can get a good player there and let's remember that the PG position isn't exactly locked up. If clearly the best player available is a PG they should take them.

I agree we should take the BPA, even if it's a PG. But I'm not that high on Fox or Smith. I could get excited about Ntilikina but need to know more.

As for Ball, I'll go out on a bit of a limb now and state that he's the best player in this draft and the most likely rookie of the year next season. In fact, I'll predict that, barring injury, he will be next season's rookie of the year. Too bad his dad is a horses ass. The Lakers will draft him at #2 - you can take that to the bank. And they will build their franchise around him. I want you to remember this post next April. :)

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Would Fox, Monk, or Smith be an upgrade over Tyus and Dunn? I tend to think they would. Ntilikina might even be on that list.

the answer is yes, which is why Thibs going so hard after Dunn last year was foolish.

That's highly debatable. People act like Dunn was a scrub coming out of college when the guy was top 10 in the country in assists and steals in 2 seasons and his shooting percentages are very close to Smith and Fox. Monk isn't a PG so I don't think he should be on that list. He's a worse version of Zach. Fox is a twig who can't shoot yet and Smith was really inconsistent this year and couldn't even get his team into March Madness. I think they could be an upgrade to Dunn, but I'm not just handing it to them. The NBA is a different beast. Saying guys are automatically better based on draft profiles from someone already in the league is putting the cart before the horse.

I was literally typing the same thing. It is dumb to say any guard in this draft is a slam dunk going to be better than Dunn (outside of fultz). We don't know, people are making assumptions based on a year of NBA Dunn compared to potentially god nba prospects because we don't know there nba weaknesses yet.

Dunn was a damn good college player as good as any pg in the class on the college level. Dunn had a terrible year offensive year but showed great defensive potential. Way to early to say he is a bust.

If all of the wings are off the board at #7 and fox is on the board you look to trade back with teams that need a pg like the kings (#10) or the Knicks (#8) and you look to add another piece or future assets with that trade

I wouldn't have picked a PG at all. I feel that if Thibs went with someone like Monk (and now he has this desire to add more shooting), it comes off like he would have taken Hield last year if he could get a do over. If Thibs were to go after a PG this year, it's a clear indictment on Dunn. I'm not gonna say Dunn was a scrub coming out of college; he wasn't, but this team had other needs, like shooting, which they failed to address in year 1. Hindsight is 20/20 for some, but I'd rather have Hield /Isaac than Dunn /Markkanen. I get the BPA excuse, but after a while it just looks like the team would rather search for a Rubio replacement than build a team

WildWolf2813 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Would Fox, Monk, or Smith be an upgrade over Tyus and Dunn? I tend to think they would. Ntilikina might even be on that list.

the answer is yes, which is why Thibs going so hard after Dunn last year was foolish.

That's highly debatable. People act like Dunn was a scrub coming out of college when the guy was top 10 in the country in assists and steals in 2 seasons and his shooting percentages are very close to Smith and Fox. Monk isn't a PG so I don't think he should be on that list. He's a worse version of Zach. Fox is a twig who can't shoot yet and Smith was really inconsistent this year and couldn't even get his team into March Madness. I think they could be an upgrade to Dunn, but I'm not just handing it to them. The NBA is a different beast. Saying guys are automatically better based on draft profiles from someone already in the league is putting the cart before the horse.

I was literally typing the same thing. It is dumb to say any guard in this draft is a slam dunk going to be better than Dunn (outside of fultz). We don't know, people are making assumptions based on a year of NBA Dunn compared to potentially god nba prospects because we don't know there nba weaknesses yet.

Dunn was a damn good college player as good as any pg in the class on the college level. Dunn had a terrible year offensive year but showed great defensive potential. Way to early to say he is a bust.

If all of the wings are off the board at #7 and fox is on the board you look to trade back with teams that need a pg like the kings (#10) or the Knicks (#8) and you look to add another piece or future assets with that trade

I wouldn't have picked a PG at all. I feel that if Thibs went with someone like Monk (and now he has this desire to add more shooting), it comes off like he would have taken Hield last year if he could get a do over. If Thibs were to go after a PG this year, it's a clear indictment on Dunn. I'm not gonna say Dunn was a scrub coming out of college; he wasn't, but this team had other needs, like shooting, which they failed to address in year 1. Hindsight is 20/20 for some, but I'd rather have Hield /Isaac than Dunn /Markkanen. I get the BPA excuse, but after a while it just looks like the team would rather search for a Rubio replacement than build a team

I agree, Wild. I was really disappointed when Thibs took Dunn instead of Hield. My disappointment deepened after watching these two guys, especially Dunn, this past season.

If we're trying to predict what Thibs will do this summer, I have absolutely no doubt he won't trade Dunn and won't take a PG because he LOVES Kris Dunn. He also loves Gorgui.

I've done a bit more research on Dennis Smith. I'm starting to give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt to him. Why?

He tore his ACL before his senior season and therefore his freshman year was his first complete season back after that injury. Considering the production he put up that's pretty impressive right?

Now it sounds like athletically he recovered very well and quite quickly. Still that's a major injury to come back from. That may explain some of his motor issues etc.

He finished HS early and was on Campus at NC State early. That takes some motivation.

The guy is really athletic and that's after having torn an ACL.

I'm still not sure about the guy but I can see some reasons to be optimistic about him if we were to pick him.

It will be very interesting to see what some teams ahead of us do especially Orlando who apparently is gonna just let the guys still in the building that they didn't fire do this draft so...who knows.

Do we see anyone with that Johnny Flynn or Wes Johnson type smile?

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Would Fox, Monk, or Smith be an upgrade over Tyus and Dunn? I tend to think they would. Ntilikina might even be on that list.

the answer is yes, which is why Thibs going so hard after Dunn last year was foolish.

That's highly debatable. People act like Dunn was a scrub coming out of college when the guy was top 10 in the country in assists and steals in 2 seasons and his shooting percentages are very close to Smith and Fox. Monk isn't a PG so I don't think he should be on that list. He's a worse version of Zach. Fox is a twig who can't shoot yet and Smith was really inconsistent this year and couldn't even get his team into March Madness. I think they could be an upgrade to Dunn, but I'm not just handing it to them. The NBA is a different beast. Saying guys are automatically better based on draft profiles from someone already in the league is putting the cart before the horse.

I was literally typing the same thing. It is dumb to say any guard in this draft is a slam dunk going to be better than Dunn (outside of fultz). We don't know, people are making assumptions based on a year of NBA Dunn compared to potentially god nba prospects because we don't know there nba weaknesses yet.

Dunn was a damn good college player as good as any pg in the class on the college level. Dunn had a terrible year offensive year but showed great defensive potential. Way to early to say he is a bust.

If all of the wings are off the board at #7 and fox is on the board you look to trade back with teams that need a pg like the kings (#10) or the Knicks (#8) and you look to add another piece or future assets with that trade

I wouldn't have picked a PG at all. I feel that if Thibs went with someone like Monk (and now he has this desire to add more shooting), it comes off like he would have taken Hield last year if he could get a do over. If Thibs were to go after a PG this year, it's a clear indictment on Dunn. I'm not gonna say Dunn was a scrub coming out of college; he wasn't, but this team had other needs, like shooting, which they failed to address in year 1. Hindsight is 20/20 for some, but I'd rather have Hield /Isaac than Dunn /Markkanen. I get the BPA excuse, but after a while it just looks like the team would rather search for a Rubio replacement than build a team

I agree, Wild. I was really disappointed when Thibs took Dunn instead of Hield. My disappointment deepened after watching these two guys, especially Dunn, this past season.

If we're trying to predict what Thibs will do this summer, I have absolutely no doubt he won't trade Dunn and won't take a PG because he LOVES Kris Dunn. He also loves Gorgui.

I wanted Murray last year's draft so I am not sticking up for the pick.

Let's see how it plays out, Dunn played 4 games last year where he played 30+ minutes (small sample size). But he averaged 8pts 8 assists 5 rebs 2 Stls 1 blk and 1 TO a game.

While buddy got consistent playing time all year 21 games of 30+ minutes and 55 starts.

Buddy got to play his similar role as he did in college and that was coming off screens and knocking down shots. Dunn came off the bench for the first time in his life, and even though his offense was bad I would argue he is our 2nd best defender as of right now.

Just give it time who knows what will happen. Like you said I would rather have issac/Hield instead of Dunn/Markkanen but if it is Dunn/Issac it is to early to call.


Also one last thing who would you rather have jj reddick or marcus smart if money was not an obstacle. (Just seems like that is good projections for both players doesn't mean they can't be better or worse )

monsterpile wrote:I've done a bit more research on Dennis Smith. I'm starting to give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt to him. Why?

He tore his ACL before his senior season and therefore his freshman year was his first complete season back after that injury. Considering the production he put up that's pretty impressive right?

Now it sounds like athletically he recovered very well and quite quickly. Still that's a major injury to come back from. That may explain some of his motor issues etc.

He finished HS early and was on Campus at NC State early. That takes some motivation.

The guy is really athletic and that's after having torn an ACL.

I'm still not sure about the guy but I can see some reasons to be optimistic about him if we were to pick him.

It will be very interesting to see what some teams ahead of us do especially Orlando who apparently is gonna just let the guys still in the building that they didn't fire do this draft so...who knows.

I heard they really like Smith

WildWolf2813 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I've done a bit more research on Dennis Smith. I'm starting to give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt to him. Why?

He tore his ACL before his senior season and therefore his freshman year was his first complete season back after that injury. Considering the production he put up that's pretty impressive right?

Now it sounds like athletically he recovered very well and quite quickly. Still that's a major injury to come back from. That may explain some of his motor issues etc.

He finished HS early and was on Campus at NC State early. That takes some motivation.

The guy is really athletic and that's after having torn an ACL.

I'm still not sure about the guy but I can see some reasons to be optimistic about him if we were to pick him.

It will be very interesting to see what some teams ahead of us do especially Orlando who apparently is gonna just let the guys still in the building that they didn't fire do this draft so...who knows.

I heard they really like Smith

Curious. Who likes him and where did you hear it?

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Would Fox, Monk, or Smith be an upgrade over Tyus and Dunn? I tend to think they would. Ntilikina might even be on that list.

the answer is yes, which is why Thibs going so hard after Dunn last year was foolish.

That's highly debatable. People act like Dunn was a scrub coming out of college when the guy was top 10 in the country in assists and steals in 2 seasons and his shooting percentages are very close to Smith and Fox. Monk isn't a PG so I don't think he should be on that list. He's a worse version of Zach. Fox is a twig who can't shoot yet and Smith was really inconsistent this year and couldn't even get his team into March Madness. I think they could be an upgrade to Dunn, but I'm not just handing it to them. The NBA is a different beast. Saying guys are automatically better based on draft profiles from someone already in the league is putting the cart before the horse.

I was literally typing the same thing. It is dumb to say any guard in this draft is a slam dunk going to be better than Dunn (outside of fultz). We don't know, people are making assumptions based on a year of NBA Dunn compared to potentially god nba prospects because we don't know there nba weaknesses yet.

Dunn was a damn good college player as good as any pg in the class on the college level. Dunn had a terrible year offensive year but showed great defensive potential. Way to early to say he is a bust.

If all of the wings are off the board at #7 and fox is on the board you look to trade back with teams that need a pg like the kings (#10) or the Knicks (#8) and you look to add another piece or future assets with that trade

I wouldn't have picked a PG at all. I feel that if Thibs went with someone like Monk (and now he has this desire to add more shooting), it comes off like he would have taken Hield last year if he could get a do over. If Thibs were to go after a PG this year, it's a clear indictment on Dunn. I'm not gonna say Dunn was a scrub coming out of college; he wasn't, but this team had other needs, like shooting, which they failed to address in year 1. Hindsight is 20/20 for some, but I'd rather have Hield /Isaac than Dunn /Markkanen. I get the BPA excuse, but after a while it just looks like the team would rather search for a Rubio replacement than build a team

I agree, Wild. I was really disappointed when Thibs took Dunn instead of Hield. My disappointment deepened after watching these two guys, especially Dunn, this past season.

If we're trying to predict what Thibs will do this summer, I have absolutely no doubt he won't trade Dunn and won't take a PG because he LOVES Kris Dunn. He also loves Gorgui.

I wanted Murray last year's draft so I am not sticking up for the pick.

Let's see how it plays out, Dunn played 4 games last year where he played 30+ minutes (small sample size). But he averaged 8pts 8 assists 5 rebs 2 Stls 1 blk and 1 TO a game.

While buddy got consistent playing time all year 21 games of 30+ minutes and 55 starts.

Buddy got to play his similar role as he did in college and that was coming off screens and knocking down shots. Dunn came off the bench for the first time in his life, and even though his offense was bad I would argue he is our 2nd best defender as of right now.

Just give it time who knows what will happen. Like you said I would rather have issac/Hield instead of Dunn/Markkanen but if it is Dunn/Issac it is to early to call.


Also one last thing who would you rather have jj reddick or marcus smart if money was not an obstacle. (Just seems like that is good projections for both players doesn't mean they can't be better or worse )

Bringing up those comps I'll point out that Smart isn't a finished product yet. He just scored 27 points tonight. I'm not saying the guy will be an offensive juggernaut or anything but Redick didn't score in double figures till his 5th season in the NBA. I still believe that Dunn can be a functional offensive player. I never thought he was gonna be a star but I think the guy isn't gonna suck there. He has to prove it to people though.

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Would Fox, Monk, or Smith be an upgrade over Tyus and Dunn? I tend to think they would. Ntilikina might even be on that list.

the answer is yes, which is why Thibs going so hard after Dunn last year was foolish.

That's highly debatable. People act like Dunn was a scrub coming out of college when the guy was top 10 in the country in assists and steals in 2 seasons and his shooting percentages are very close to Smith and Fox. Monk isn't a PG so I don't think he should be on that list. He's a worse version of Zach. Fox is a twig who can't shoot yet and Smith was really inconsistent this year and couldn't even get his team into March Madness. I think they could be an upgrade to Dunn, but I'm not just handing it to them. The NBA is a different beast. Saying guys are automatically better based on draft profiles from someone already in the league is putting the cart before the horse.

I was literally typing the same thing. It is dumb to say any guard in this draft is a slam dunk going to be better than Dunn (outside of fultz). We don't know, people are making assumptions based on a year of NBA Dunn compared to potentially god nba prospects because we don't know there nba weaknesses yet.

Dunn was a damn good college player as good as any pg in the class on the college level. Dunn had a terrible year offensive year but showed great defensive potential. Way to early to say he is a bust.

If all of the wings are off the board at #7 and fox is on the board you look to trade back with teams that need a pg like the kings (#10) or the Knicks (#8) and you look to add another piece or future assets with that trade

I wouldn't have picked a PG at all. I feel that if Thibs went with someone like Monk (and now he has this desire to add more shooting), it comes off like he would have taken Hield last year if he could get a do over. If Thibs were to go after a PG this year, it's a clear indictment on Dunn. I'm not gonna say Dunn was a scrub coming out of college; he wasn't, but this team had other needs, like shooting, which they failed to address in year 1. Hindsight is 20/20 for some, but I'd rather have Hield /Isaac than Dunn /Markkanen. I get the BPA excuse, but after a while it just looks like the team would rather search for a Rubio replacement than build a team

I agree, Wild. I was really disappointed when Thibs took Dunn instead of Hield. My disappointment deepened after watching these two guys, especially Dunn, this past season.

If we're trying to predict what Thibs will do this summer, I have absolutely no doubt he won't trade Dunn and won't take a PG because he LOVES Kris Dunn. He also loves Gorgui.

I wanted Murray last year's draft so I am not sticking up for the pick.

Let's see how it plays out, Dunn played 4 games last year where he played 30+ minutes (small sample size). But he averaged 8pts 8 assists 5 rebs 2 Stls 1 blk and 1 TO a game.

While buddy got consistent playing time all year 21 games of 30+ minutes and 55 starts.

Buddy got to play his similar role as he did in college and that was coming off screens and knocking down shots. Dunn came off the bench for the first time in his life, and even though his offense was bad I would argue he is our 2nd best defender as of right now.

Just give it time who knows what will happen. Like you said I would rather have issac/Hield instead of Dunn/Markkanen but if it is Dunn/Issac it is to early to call.


Also one last thing who would you rather have jj reddick or marcus smart if money was not an obstacle. (Just seems like that is good projections for both players doesn't mean they can't be better or worse )

Bringing up those comps I'll point out that Smart isn't a finished product yet. He just scored 27 points tonight. I'm not saying the guy will be an offensive juggernaut or anything but Redick didn't score in double figures till his 5th season in the NBA. I still believe that Dunn can be a functional offensive player. I never thought he was gonna be a star but I think the guy isn't gonna suck there. He has to prove it to people though.

Oh I agree he has to prove it. But I hate when people say a player is a bust after a year, at to early to tell give it time. He might never improve or he might be the next jimmy butler who knows. What he showed in year one is he can fight through screens better than anyone on the wolves and can be competitive defensively against both PG and SG and I will take that