Camden wrote:The Timberwolves definitely got better, and they significantly increased their chances of winning a championship, but they're so lazy and stupid for getting better! Karl-Anthony Towns is one of the most versatile bigs of all-time, but he's not a four and it just won't work because I said so! If only they knew what I knew! Morons!
This is how you sound, Loser.
Wow, you really aren't very bright. And whoever liked his post, same to you. Just because you don't understand what I'm saying, doesn't make me wrong. Next time you quote me, why don't you actually quote what I said and include the context. If that's too much work then just don't respond to me. For the last time, there were several options to improve our championship odds this year. This was probably the worst fitting and most expensive option of them all. If you can't understand this, then I don't know what to tell you.
Camden wrote:Respectfully, that response is how I know you're not fully comprehending, or perhaps remembering, my position.
Trading for Rudy Gobert wasn't something I was interested in, personally. I noted that Minnesota would have severe cap complications just a couple years from now -- using approximately 70-percent of the allotted cap on just Karl-Anthony Towns and Gobert in the future. I mentioned that the assets required to get him would be significant as well, however, I didn't expect the cost to be four future first-round picks -- mainly because I expected Jaden McDaniels to be a requirement in any trade of that magnitude. I've acknowledged that the trade as we know it was an overpay in my estimation although not severely when you compare it to other recent trades for star players like Anthony Davis and James Harden, for example. Both before [the trade] and after, I've been very clear that I would NOT have made the trade that Tim Connelly did.
With that said, I'm also keenly aware of the elite production Gobert brings to a team. He's arguably the greatest defensive player of this generation -- with only Kawhi Leonard and Draymond Green in contention -- and he literally led the league in rebounding last season. Those are the two key areas of the game that the Timberwolves absolutely had to get better at if they were going to take another step in their progression and they got the best possible player they could get to give them that boost. It's not difficult to see that the Timberwolves should be much improved yet again this upcoming season.
It's possible to do two things at once. You can logically maintain the stance that the Timberwolves gave up too much to get Gobert. But in the same breath you have to acknowledge that Gobert is an elite player that immediately makes the Timberwolves much, much better. It's a calculated risk on Connelly's part because he'll be held responsible one way or the other, but he certainly appears to have ownership's support. I fail to understand anyone who considers Connelly lazy, stupid, etc. for making the move he made here. He essentially planted the flag in Minnesota as if to say that the Timberwolves aren't fucking around anymore. After decades of watching this organization lose, embarrass themselves, rebuild, and lose some more, you kind of have to admire that.
I think D-Loser actually understands this, but has decided he just wants to be a troll about it and create a caricature of a bumbling, lazy front office exec that has no clue. No one credible actually believes this to be true, including folks that disagree with the trade.
Yeah ok I'm a troll. So it's ok for you to disrespectfully call me a troll (when I've obviously shown myself not to be) but if I call TC lazy, irresponsible and idiotic, then I'm way out of line. Cool guys.
Anyway, I came on here to say that the #1 thing about Kat, in my opinion, has always been that he's an offensive mismatch for the other teams defense. In the past if you stick someone big on him (like Gobert) he can go outside, but if you guard him with a smaller guy he can destroy you in the post. That mismatch is now gone because of this trade. I think that's the big reason why everyone around the league thinks this trade was so odd. Now with Kat being relegated to the perimeter, he'll no longer have a quickness advantage over the PF guarding him. Ok so let's get Kat the ball in the post, well not only will the bigger center switch onto him, but this pushes gobert to the perimeter where he is no threat. Not only this but now the lane will be more clogged for ant to drive. In the past, with our center being a threat from the perimeter, this opened the lane for Ant. Now gobert will be clogging the lane for ant and when ant passes to Kat, Kat will no longer have a quickness advantage to drive either. Finch is a good coach and I'm sure he can figure somethings out, but it's a very odd fit and far from ideal on that end.
This is why I've always preferred a guy like portis or turner next to Kat. A pairing like this would allow Kat to maintain his mismatch while also helping a lot on the defensive end. I know this is all basketball 101 to many of you, but the fact that TC not only made this move, but paid what he did, really makes me question if he understands this. I get that everyone is at the stage where they want to be optimistic about this, but let's get real, this could go horribly wrong.
The Wolves led the league in scoring last year (points per 100) starting Vandy, they now replaced his poor scoring and bad hands for an elite offensive rebounder who finishes at 70%+.
The Wolves should be better on offense and they were already the best. That is just the actual facts and truth. Unless you think Bease or Beverley were the key to offensive success? Keep in mind our young guys who took steps forward last year should take another step forward too. Ant, Jaden and Nowell.
The Wolves might be top 5 on offense and defense and be the number one seed in the West. It's certainly possible now with the elite upgrade by TC the great!!! Not hyperbole. This was a stellar trade.
Camden wrote:Respectfully, that response is how I know you're not fully comprehending, or perhaps remembering, my position.
Trading for Rudy Gobert wasn't something I was interested in, personally. I noted that Minnesota would have severe cap complications just a couple years from now -- using approximately 70-percent of the allotted cap on just Karl-Anthony Towns and Gobert in the future. I mentioned that the assets required to get him would be significant as well, however, I didn't expect the cost to be four future first-round picks -- mainly because I expected Jaden McDaniels to be a requirement in any trade of that magnitude. I've acknowledged that the trade as we know it was an overpay in my estimation although not severely when you compare it to other recent trades for star players like Anthony Davis and James Harden, for example. Both before [the trade] and after, I've been very clear that I would NOT have made the trade that Tim Connelly did.
With that said, I'm also keenly aware of the elite production Gobert brings to a team. He's arguably the greatest defensive player of this generation -- with only Kawhi Leonard and Draymond Green in contention -- and he literally led the league in rebounding last season. Those are the two key areas of the game that the Timberwolves absolutely had to get better at if they were going to take another step in their progression and they got the best possible player they could get to give them that boost. It's not difficult to see that the Timberwolves should be much improved yet again this upcoming season.
It's possible to do two things at once. You can logically maintain the stance that the Timberwolves gave up too much to get Gobert. But in the same breath you have to acknowledge that Gobert is an elite player that immediately makes the Timberwolves much, much better. It's a calculated risk on Connelly's part because he'll be held responsible one way or the other, but he certainly appears to have ownership's support. I fail to understand anyone who considers Connelly lazy, stupid, etc. for making the move he made here. He essentially planted the flag in Minnesota as if to say that the Timberwolves aren't fucking around anymore. After decades of watching this organization lose, embarrass themselves, rebuild, and lose some more, you kind of have to admire that.
I think D-Loser actually understands this, but has decided he just wants to be a troll about it and create a caricature of a bumbling, lazy front office exec that has no clue. No one credible actually believes this to be true, including folks that disagree with the trade.
Yeah ok I'm a troll. So it's ok for you to disrespectfully call me a troll (when I've obviously shown myself not to be) but if I call TC lazy, irresponsible and idiotic, then I'm way out of line. Cool guys.
Anyway, I came on here to say that the #1 thing about Kat, in my opinion, has always been that he's an offensive mismatch for the other teams defense. In the past if you stick someone big on him (like Gobert) he can go outside, but if you guard him with a smaller guy he can destroy you in the post. That mismatch is now gone because of this trade. I think that's the big reason why everyone around the league thinks this trade was so odd. Now with Kat being relegated to the perimeter, he'll no longer have a quickness advantage over the PF guarding him. Ok so let's get Kat the ball in the post, well not only will the bigger center switch onto him, but this pushes gobert to the perimeter where he is no threat. Not only this but now the lane will be more clogged for ant to drive. In the past, with our center being a threat from the perimeter, this opened the lane for Ant. Now gobert will be clogging the lane for ant and when ant passes to Kat, Kat will no longer have a quickness advantage to drive either. Finch is a good coach and I'm sure he can figure somethings out, but it's a very odd fit and far from ideal on that end.
This is why I've always preferred a guy like portis or turner next to Kat. A pairing like this would allow Kat to maintain his mismatch while also helping a lot on the defensive end. I know this is all basketball 101 to many of you, but the fact that TC not only made this move, but paid what he did, really makes me question if he understands this. I get that everyone is at the stage where they want to be optimistic about this, but let's get real, this could go horribly wrong.
The Wolves led the league in scoring last year (points per 100) starting Vandy, they now replaced his poor scoring and bad hands for an elite offensive rebounder who finishes at 70%+.
The Wolves should be better on offense and they were already the best. That is just the actual facts and truth. Unless you think Bease or Beverley were the key to offensive success? Keep in mind our young guys who took steps forward last year should take another step forward too. Ant, Jaden and Nowell.
The Wolves might be top 5 on offense and defense and be the number one seed in the West. It's certainly possible now with the elite upgrade by TC the great!!! Not hyperbole. This was a stellar trade.
You really think we were the best offensive team in the league last year? There's a big difference between picking a couple stats and actually being the best offensive team in the league. We lost in the first round to a team that later got smoked by the best offensive team in league (IMO). I'm glad you're a fan of TC the great investing 450 mil in two centers, when we play in a guards league. I personally don't think we sniff the #1 seed. We don't have the consistency at guard for that. I don't think Ant is there quite yet as the dominant lead guard (I hope I'm wrong), and Dlo will never be the lead guard (or starting guard) on a contending team. Hey, I hope I'm wrong and don't like arguing with most of you (although Camden is a dink)
Camden wrote:Respectfully, that response is how I know you're not fully comprehending, or perhaps remembering, my position.
Trading for Rudy Gobert wasn't something I was interested in, personally. I noted that Minnesota would have severe cap complications just a couple years from now -- using approximately 70-percent of the allotted cap on just Karl-Anthony Towns and Gobert in the future. I mentioned that the assets required to get him would be significant as well, however, I didn't expect the cost to be four future first-round picks -- mainly because I expected Jaden McDaniels to be a requirement in any trade of that magnitude. I've acknowledged that the trade as we know it was an overpay in my estimation although not severely when you compare it to other recent trades for star players like Anthony Davis and James Harden, for example. Both before [the trade] and after, I've been very clear that I would NOT have made the trade that Tim Connelly did.
With that said, I'm also keenly aware of the elite production Gobert brings to a team. He's arguably the greatest defensive player of this generation -- with only Kawhi Leonard and Draymond Green in contention -- and he literally led the league in rebounding last season. Those are the two key areas of the game that the Timberwolves absolutely had to get better at if they were going to take another step in their progression and they got the best possible player they could get to give them that boost. It's not difficult to see that the Timberwolves should be much improved yet again this upcoming season.
It's possible to do two things at once. You can logically maintain the stance that the Timberwolves gave up too much to get Gobert. But in the same breath you have to acknowledge that Gobert is an elite player that immediately makes the Timberwolves much, much better. It's a calculated risk on Connelly's part because he'll be held responsible one way or the other, but he certainly appears to have ownership's support. I fail to understand anyone who considers Connelly lazy, stupid, etc. for making the move he made here. He essentially planted the flag in Minnesota as if to say that the Timberwolves aren't fucking around anymore. After decades of watching this organization lose, embarrass themselves, rebuild, and lose some more, you kind of have to admire that.
I think D-Loser actually understands this, but has decided he just wants to be a troll about it and create a caricature of a bumbling, lazy front office exec that has no clue. No one credible actually believes this to be true, including folks that disagree with the trade.
Yeah ok I'm a troll. So it's ok for you to disrespectfully call me a troll (when I've obviously shown myself not to be) but if I call TC lazy, irresponsible and idiotic, then I'm way out of line. Cool guys.
Anyway, I came on here to say that the #1 thing about Kat, in my opinion, has always been that he's an offensive mismatch for the other teams defense. In the past if you stick someone big on him (like Gobert) he can go outside, but if you guard him with a smaller guy he can destroy you in the post. That mismatch is now gone because of this trade. I think that's the big reason why everyone around the league thinks this trade was so odd. Now with Kat being relegated to the perimeter, he'll no longer have a quickness advantage over the PF guarding him. Ok so let's get Kat the ball in the post, well not only will the bigger center switch onto him, but this pushes gobert to the perimeter where he is no threat. Not only this but now the lane will be more clogged for ant to drive. In the past, with our center being a threat from the perimeter, this opened the lane for Ant. Now gobert will be clogging the lane for ant and when ant passes to Kat, Kat will no longer have a quickness advantage to drive either. Finch is a good coach and I'm sure he can figure somethings out, but it's a very odd fit and far from ideal on that end.
This is why I've always preferred a guy like portis or turner next to Kat. A pairing like this would allow Kat to maintain his mismatch while also helping a lot on the defensive end. I know this is all basketball 101 to many of you, but the fact that TC not only made this move, but paid what he did, really makes me question if he understands this. I get that everyone is at the stage where they want to be optimistic about this, but let's get real, this could go horribly wrong.
The Wolves led the league in scoring last year (points per 100) starting Vandy, they now replaced his poor scoring and bad hands for an elite offensive rebounder who finishes at 70%+.
The Wolves should be better on offense and they were already the best. That is just the actual facts and truth. Unless you think Bease or Beverley were the key to offensive success? Keep in mind our young guys who took steps forward last year should take another step forward too. Ant, Jaden and Nowell.
The Wolves might be top 5 on offense and defense and be the number one seed in the West. It's certainly possible now with the elite upgrade by TC the great!!! Not hyperbole. This was a stellar trade.
You really think we were the best offensive team in the league last year? There's a big difference between picking a couple stats and actually being the best offensive team in the league. We lost in the first round to a team that later got smoked by the best offensive team in league (IMO). I'm glad you're a fan of TC the great investing 450 mil in two centers, when we play in a guards league. I personally don't think we sniff the #1 seed. We don't have the consistency at guard for that. I don't think Ant is there quite yet as the dominant lead guard (I hope I'm wrong), and Dlo will never be the lead guard (or starting guard) on a contending team. Hey, I hope I'm wrong and don't like arguing with most of you (although Camden is a dink)
Certainly top 10 in most metrics, Utah was number 1 in some as well and guess who they had? Oh that's right, that guy who scores on 70% of his shots. I'll take Rudys 15-16 points per game on 70% shooting then leave it up to KAT, Ant, Nowell, Jaden, DLO, Prince and others to pick up the rest. Give me 25 from Kat and 25 from Ant we are up to 65 points already from very efficient players. Scoring more then you miss is kind of the point. DLO can't shoot as bad as he did last year and his passing to Gobert on the Pick and Roll is what he does best.
I also heard on a podcast, Utahs defense was 3rd in the league with Gobert on the court, when off they were 28th. So outside of Gobert they were a really bad defensive team. Our squad was much better last year then 28th btw. Gobert is that good that he can take a bunch of crap defenders and make them top 3, as long as they are playing with him. We got better defenders still then Utah does, when I say still I'm talking about losing Bev and Vandy, who when we upgrade with Anderson and Gobert, I mean. We coming!!!
Here's an interesting take on the Wolves Gobert deal from Draymond Green:
"What this trade says to me is that they believe that they have a superstar in Anthony Edwards," Green said. "You think about the NBA. What championships used to be was having a great guard and a great big. And that says to me that they believe that [Edwards] can carry the torch."
lipoli390 wrote:Here's an interesting take on the Wolves Gobert deal from Draymond Green:
"What this trade says to me is that they believe that they have a superstar in Anthony Edwards," Green said. "You think about the NBA. What championships used to be was having a great guard and a great big. And that says to me that they believe that [Edwards] can carry the torch."
I saw that and liked it a lot, but didn't post it because of some of the negative things Green said about the trade. I'm an unabashed supporter of the Gobert deal, so I was reluctant to post Green's take that KAT will never be a successful PF. If that turns out to be true, it's a bad deal (unless TC can turn KAT's contract into something that fits better). But I'm taking the ostrich approach and focusing on his positive comments about Ant and ignoring the rest.
lipoli390 wrote:Here's an interesting take on the Wolves Gobert deal from Draymond Green:
"What this trade says to me is that they believe that they have a superstar in Anthony Edwards," Green said. "You think about the NBA. What championships used to be was having a great guard and a great big. And that says to me that they believe that [Edwards] can carry the torch."
I saw that and liked it a lot, but didn't post it because of some of the negative things Green said about the trade. I'm an unabashed supporter of the Gobert deal, so I was reluctant to post Green's take that KAT will never be a successful PF. If that turns out to be true, it's a bad deal (unless TC can turn KAT's contract into something that fits better). But I'm taking the ostrich approach and focusing on his positive comments about Ant and ignoring the rest.
Lol. I'm not a supporter of the deal, but I deliberately declined to post the other Green quote because I disagree with him on that point. I still remember KAT shutting down Steph Curry to pave the way for an improbably Wolves win over the Warriors a few years ago under Sam Mitchell. If he can guard Steph effectively, he should be able to guard most PF effectively as well. But yes, if Draymond is right about KAT, then the Gobert deal was even worse than I believe it was and will end up a big blunder.
lipoli390 wrote:Here's an interesting take on the Wolves Gobert deal from Draymond Green:
"What this trade says to me is that they believe that they have a superstar in Anthony Edwards," Green said. "You think about the NBA. What championships used to be was having a great guard and a great big. And that says to me that they believe that [Edwards] can carry the torch."
I saw that and liked it a lot, but didn't post it because of some of the negative things Green said about the trade. I'm an unabashed supporter of the Gobert deal, so I was reluctant to post Green's take that KAT will never be a successful PF. If that turns out to be true, it's a bad deal (unless TC can turn KAT's contract into something that fits better). But I'm taking the ostrich approach and focusing on his positive comments about Ant and ignoring the rest.
Lol. I'm not a supporter of the deal, but I deliberately declined to post the other Green quote because I disagree with him on that point. I still remember KAT shutting down Steph Curry to pave the way for an improbably Wolves win over the Warriors a few years ago under Sam Mitchell. If he can guard Steph effectively, he should be able to guard most PF effectively as well. But yes, if Draymond is right about KAT, then the Gobert deal was even worse than I believe it was and will end up a big blunder.
Lip, Draymond might be a dick on the court, but I generally respect his takes more than the typical player or analyst...he seems to understand the game. And that's why his comments about Ant made me so excited. But I agree that he is wrong about KAT not succeeding at PF. KAT has never been a traditional back to the basket center on offense. While he has a decent post-up game, where he really excels at is 3-point shooting and drives to the basket. The question for me has always been whether he could play defense at the 4, and I think the answer is yes. Teams might try to beat him with a quicker player at the 4, but we can count on Finchie to get the right matchups. KAT has shown surprising quickness and a marked improvement in guarding the perimeter. I understand where Draymond is coming from in saying the league is changing, but that doesn't change my opinion that KAT is close to a prototypical stretch 4 on offense.
7 footers are too often typecast as centers. That's why KG used to jokingly call himself 6'-13"! I think if KAT we're 6-10, few would be questioning his chances of success at the 4. But I think he will be just fine as a 7 footer at the 4, and I'm drooling about the interior defense Rudy, Jaden and he will provide. He'll prove Green wrong on this one.
lipoli390 wrote:Here's an interesting take on the Wolves Gobert deal from Draymond Green:
"What this trade says to me is that they believe that they have a superstar in Anthony Edwards," Green said. "You think about the NBA. What championships used to be was having a great guard and a great big. And that says to me that they believe that [Edwards] can carry the torch."
I saw that and liked it a lot, but didn't post it because of some of the negative things Green said about the trade. I'm an unabashed supporter of the Gobert deal, so I was reluctant to post Green's take that KAT will never be a successful PF. If that turns out to be true, it's a bad deal (unless TC can turn KAT's contract into something that fits better). But I'm taking the ostrich approach and focusing on his positive comments about Ant and ignoring the rest.
I posted something similar in the What makes this trade a success thread. I think this trade is clear indication that they believe Ant is close if not there and to an extent Jaden as far as what they need him to do to be a great team. As a duo it is a very young wing duo on a team with high expectations. I think it will be best for them in the long run
lipoli390 wrote:Here's an interesting take on the Wolves Gobert deal from Draymond Green:
"What this trade says to me is that they believe that they have a superstar in Anthony Edwards," Green said. "You think about the NBA. What championships used to be was having a great guard and a great big. And that says to me that they believe that [Edwards] can carry the torch."
I saw that and liked it a lot, but didn't post it because of some of the negative things Green said about the trade. I'm an unabashed supporter of the Gobert deal, so I was reluctant to post Green's take that KAT will never be a successful PF. If that turns out to be true, it's a bad deal (unless TC can turn KAT's contract into something that fits better). But I'm taking the ostrich approach and focusing on his positive comments about Ant and ignoring the rest.
Lol. I'm not a supporter of the deal, but I deliberately declined to post the other Green quote because I disagree with him on that point. I still remember KAT shutting down Steph Curry to pave the way for an improbably Wolves win over the Warriors a few years ago under Sam Mitchell. If he can guard Steph effectively, he should be able to guard most PF effectively as well. But yes, if Draymond is right about KAT, then the Gobert deal was even worse than I believe it was and will end up a big blunder.
Lip, Draymond might be a dick on the court, but I generally respect his takes more than the typical player or analyst...he seems to understand the game. And that's why his comments about Ant made me so excited. But I agree that he is wrong about KAT not succeeding at PF. KAT has never been a traditional back to the basket center on offense. While he has a decent post-up game, where he really excels at is 3-point shooting and drives to the basket. The question for me has always been whether he could play defense at the 4, and I think the answer is yes. Teams might try to beat him with a quicker player at the 4, but we can count on Finchie to get the right matchups. KAT has shown surprising quickness and a marked improvement in guarding the perimeter. I understand where Draymond is coming from in saying the league is changing, but that doesn't change my opinion that KAT is close to a prototypical stretch 4 on offense.
7 footers are too often typecast as centers. That's why KG used to jokingly call himself 6'-13"! I think if KAT we're 6-10, few would be questioning his chances of success at the 4. But I think he will be just fine as a 7 footer at the 4, and I'm drooling about the interior defense Rudy, Jaden and he will provide. He'll prove Green wrong on this one.
Well...Towns is 6'10.25" without shoes! :) but in all seriousness he really isn't a 7' guy.
A couple more things.
I was watching some highlights yesterday of maybe Bryn Forbes it wasn't a Wolves player and there was a possession where Towns got engulfed by players while he was in the paint it ended up being a turnover going the other way. Towns is a very good post player when he is beating just one player but if he has to do more then there are problems. To be fair It's not all in Towns. Some of it has been coaching some of it has been players, some of it has been lack of shooting and some of it is teams daring Towns and the rest of the team to beat them while they get the ball out of Towns hands...sometimes regardless of where he is on the court. That's probably been a smart strategy I would absolutely do the same. Towns is a good passer for his size but he throws some passes where you wonder what planet he was on when he whipped that one. Durant does the same thing. I don't think Towns is really a guy that you can put him in a spot and run your offense through him possession after possession. Meanwhile what Towns doesn't have in size or bulk or passing ability he makes it up in being one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. To me playing on the perimeter adds to one of his best strengths as a player. I have made the case Towns was just fine at Center in the past and I think he still could be but the last year or so I've been more intrigued with him playing more like a SG with players having to chase him all over the court. A smaller player he is gonna be able to shoot over if that's what they want to do. So yeah him playing as a PF makes sense to me and defensively like Dane Moore says he showed this last season he is probably better doing that than being a rim protector. There are also numbers that say defense was better playing with guys like Dieng and even Gibson.
Also the idea of 2 bigs on the floor together doesn't work...how many teams actually have 2 pretty good C/PFs on their roster? Heck there are few teams that even have a really good PF and fewer that have one you worry about scoring. One of the reasons teams have gone small is to get their best players on the floor. It's not JUST about playing small with a tactical advantage it's because team often get a better player on the floor too. Meanwhile the Wolves will have 2 of the best bigs in the entire league they can be playing plus a 6'10" SF in McDaniels. One of the issues the Wolves had in the past was they never had that big SF that could help out defensively. Now the have Gobert at C and McDaniels. Fine someone beats Towns on the perimeter they may have to deal with one of those guys at the rim. They also don't have some little dude at SG anymore either it's Anthony Edwards. The Wolves are gonna be a big team AND they are gonna play fast. Defensive rebounding? That's probably been fixed which will help defensively and might lead to even more easy baskets on the other end.
Look I get where Draymond is coming from. He has been playing in the small lineups for years. He also plays with 2 other HOFers that are 2 of the greatest shooters of all time. Draymond is a very unique player himself. Not maybe guys his size can play like he does. I remember Rodman playing C for the Bulls often late in games. The last chunk of years aren't the only teams to play smaller. Can you imagine the Lakers being like...well we might get played off the court better not have Pau and Shaq out there together. Someone might hit a 3 on one of those guys. It would be hilarious to see teams try and go small on Shaq. He was too big and too good of a passer for teams to do what they do now...oh and that Kobe guy was pretty good. It helps to have good coaching also.
