Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

You are right that you can hide players as much anymore.

But having a rim protector and space eater can help cover some of those blown coverages by altering shots, blocking shots, or just being in the way. So if kat moves to pf and gets beat, hopefully we have a defensive big to anchor. If not, no point in moving kat to pf.

crazy-canuck wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

You are right that you can hide players as much anymore.

But having a rim protector and space eater can help cover some of those blown coverages by altering shots, blocking shots, or just being in the way. So if kat moves to pf and gets beat, hopefully we have a defensive big to anchor. If not, no point in moving kat to pf.

I think the idea of putting a more typical big next to Towns isn't a complete solution but I think it could have some merit for say 20 minutes a game or possibly more against certain teams. Playoffs? Sure you might not play rat guy a whole lot but that's fine. I think there can be players that have value as regular season guys that help you win and get a higher seed etc. of course if that's the case you don't want to be paying them like a core player. Adding Whiteside even though he would be making a bunch of money would make sense because it's a different sunk cost than Dieng or some other player coming over in a deal. If it seems like that might work then you can sign an Ed Davis Baynes Zaza etc that you can start or play a decent amount of minutes but they aren't gonna be all mad if they aren't getting 30 minutes a game or whatever. I'm not convinced Towns being a PF is a good idea but I'm not completely against it either. Dane Moore points out that generally it seems the league has considered Towns a PF on offense at least this past year and probably even longer than that since he played with Dieng before that. Whiteside or whoever else we try as a big guy next to Towns would have their own issues but it would be interesting to give it a whirl. Hopefully Towns (and his teammates) has some sort of revelation on the defensive end at some point.

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

Guarding the pick in roll is truly a 5-man effort. I'm not saying KAT is great at it, but he receives zero backside help when he has to close out on the ball handler.

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

You are right that you can hide players as much anymore.

But having a rim protector and space eater can help cover some of those blown coverages by altering shots, blocking shots, or just being in the way. So if kat moves to pf and gets beat, hopefully we have a defensive big to anchor. If not, no point in moving kat to pf.

I think the idea of putting a more typical big next to Towns isn't a complete solution but I think it could have some merit for say 20 minutes a game or possibly more against certain teams. Playoffs? Sure you might not play rat guy a whole lot but that's fine. I think there can be players that have value as regular season guys that help you win and get a higher seed etc. of course if that's the case you don't want to be paying them like a core player. Adding Whiteside even though he would be making a bunch of money would make sense because it's a different sunk cost than Dieng or some other player coming over in a deal. If it seems like that might work then you can sign an Ed Davis Baynes Zaza etc that you can start or play a decent amount of minutes but they aren't gonna be all mad if they aren't getting 30 minutes a game or whatever. I'm not convinced Towns being a PF is a good idea but I'm not completely against it either. Dane Moore points out that generally it seems the league has considered Towns a PF on offense at least this past year and probably even longer than that since he played with Dieng before that. Whiteside or whoever else we try as a big guy next to Towns would have their own issues but it would be interesting to give it a whirl. Hopefully Towns (and his teammates) has some sort of revelation on the defensive end at some point.

It's a tough needle to thread because you need a guy big and strong enough to be able to clear out space and just generally get in people's way without being moved off his base while at the same time can do a halfway decent job staying with smaller guys on switches.

Baynes is a great example of a guy that is big and strong, but man, he has some really nimble feet too so you can't just pull him out and easily torch him either.

Capela isn't so huge, but he's got a solid base and he is absolutely elite on the perimeter. Thibs kept trying to get Capela on switches in that Houston series and it simply didn't work. None of our perimeter guys could get past him. Reason #321 Thibs should be fired...did he not know that Capela could guard out there!?

Pekovic when healthy was also pretty good with his feet. We were a pretty solid defensive team when he was healthy and our Center. There is something to be said about having just a really big, strong player in the paint that just makes things uncomfortable for people. But they have to be able to move their feet too....

One of the more frustrating things about the Wolves the past 2+ years...

They have the league's best Stretch 5 post player. But it seems like they still struggle with spacing more than most other teams.

I know, I know... they finished with a top 5 efficient offense or whatever last season. But could it have been even better?


[Note: I guess part of that is because they run with 4s with less range (Gibson), so it ends up in a wash. Personally, I dig Towns at the 5 because of everything it unlocks offensively. ]

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

What would matter is having an anchor in the paint playing next to him that could offer some rim protection. In fact that would help everyone on the floor. We are terrible at helping or making plays from the weak side. KAT is one of the biggest culprits. But if we had a big man, say Whiteside, who could leave his man and make plays on the interior it would make a huge difference. KAT isn't that guy.

crazy-canuck wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

You are right that you can hide players as much anymore.

But having a rim protector and space eater can help cover some of those blown coverages by altering shots, blocking shots, or just being in the way. So if kat moves to pf and gets beat, hopefully we have a defensive big to anchor. If not, no point in moving kat to pf.

Sorry Crazy, wrote my response before reading yours.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

You are right that you can hide players as much anymore.

But having a rim protector and space eater can help cover some of those blown coverages by altering shots, blocking shots, or just being in the way. So if kat moves to pf and gets beat, hopefully we have a defensive big to anchor. If not, no point in moving kat to pf.

Sorry Crazy, wrote my response before reading yours.

Cool and CC - I agree with both of you on this. It would be a huge boost to our defense if we were to move KAT to PF and add a defensive anchor along side him at C. It's so hard to guard guys on the perimeter now with all the rule changes. A defensive anchor seems critical in today's NBA. While I believe KAT's defense has been better so far this season, he simply isn't a defensive anchor and I don't think he ever will be. However, put him next to a Rudy Gobert type (Whiteside?) and you'd not only get the defense/shot-blocking of the Gobert type, but you'd also improve KAT's defense because he could focus on what he does best defensively. Other than Whiteside, I don't see any Gobert types who might be available in a Butler deal. I liked Mo Bamba and Jaren Jackson in the June draft as players with that sort of defensive potential -- which is why I wanted to deal Butler at the time to Memphis for their pick. Obviously I don't know if the Grizzlies would have been up for that deal where we would get their pick and Chandler Parsons, but I think it was realistic at the time. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed and Butler's trade value has been seriously compromised

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

You are right that you can hide players as much anymore.

But having a rim protector and space eater can help cover some of those blown coverages by altering shots, blocking shots, or just being in the way. So if kat moves to pf and gets beat, hopefully we have a defensive big to anchor. If not, no point in moving kat to pf.

Sorry Crazy, wrote my response before reading yours.

Cool and CC - I agree with both of you on this. It would be a huge boost to our defense if we were to move KAT to PF and add a defensive anchor along side him at C. It's so hard to guard guys on the perimeter now with all the rule changes. A defensive anchor seems critical in today's NBA. While I believe KAT's defense has been better so far this season, he simply isn't a defensive anchor and I don't think he ever will be. However, put him next to a Rudy Gobert type (Whiteside?) and you'd not only get the defense/shot-blocking of the Gobert type, but you'd also improve KAT's defense because he could focus on what he does best defensively. Other than Whiteside, I don't see any Gobert types who might be available in a Butler deal. I liked Mo Bamba and Jaren Jackson in the June draft as players with that sort of defensive potential -- which is why I wanted to deal Butler at the time to Memphis for their pick. Obviously I don't know if the Grizzlies would have been up for that deal where we would get their pick and Chandler Parsons, but I think it was realistic at the time. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed and Butler's trade value has been seriously compromised

The irony is that DeAndre Jordon Gobert and Whiteside are all guys that could have or would fit the bill and none of them were acquired via a lottery pick.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:KAT playing the 4 or 5 isn't gonna really matter in today's NBA. Offenses are gonna get the matchups they want so if they want to make KAT defend the PnR they are gonna be able to get that matchup. It's nice in concept, but the days of hiding guys doesn't really work anymore with the move to matchup basketball. It's not a coincidence KAT is always defending the PnR and Gibson is not.

You are right that you can hide players as much anymore.

But having a rim protector and space eater can help cover some of those blown coverages by altering shots, blocking shots, or just being in the way. So if kat moves to pf and gets beat, hopefully we have a defensive big to anchor. If not, no point in moving kat to pf.

Sorry Crazy, wrote my response before reading yours.

Cool and CC - I agree with both of you on this. It would be a huge boost to our defense if we were to move KAT to PF and add a defensive anchor along side him at C. It's so hard to guard guys on the perimeter now with all the rule changes. A defensive anchor seems critical in today's NBA. While I believe KAT's defense has been better so far this season, he simply isn't a defensive anchor and I don't think he ever will be. However, put him next to a Rudy Gobert type (Whiteside?) and you'd not only get the defense/shot-blocking of the Gobert type, but you'd also improve KAT's defense because he could focus on what he does best defensively. Other than Whiteside, I don't see any Gobert types who might be available in a Butler deal. I liked Mo Bamba and Jaren Jackson in the June draft as players with that sort of defensive potential -- which is why I wanted to deal Butler at the time to Memphis for their pick. Obviously I don't know if the Grizzlies would have been up for that deal where we would get their pick and Chandler Parsons, but I think it was realistic at the time. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed and Butler's trade value has been seriously compromised

The irony is that DeAndre Jordon Gobert and Whiteside are all guys that could have or would fit the bill and none of them were acquired via a lottery pick.

Bingo. We have these seemingly intractable problems that transcend era (remember how much we talked about getting one of these types of players when Love was our best player?). They really shouldn't be THAT hard to solve. 3-point shooting woes and interior defense don't require top 10 draft picks or superstar acquisitions!