Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:In the long run Wiggins will both defend the other team's best wing and be guarded by their best wing. Our other wing won't have an effect on that equation because Wiggins will have to be defended first and foremost. I don't see a situation where a team says the guy next to Wiggins is enough of a hassle to give Wiggins the easier matchup. Nobody was sticking their best defender on Wade over Lebron even when Wade was a major mismatch with his post game and driving ability as a SG. That's like saying you would guard Pippen over Jordan on nights when Pippen had a matchup advantage over the secondary defender. You defend the best player regardless of the other matchups.

I definitely said stronger physically. Not their "best defender". Sometimes that may be one in the same. Either way look at what we've already seen with the Bazz/Wiggins duo. Bazz nearly always had the more physically strong defender on him, not Wiggins. If Bazz was in the lineup Deng would have been on him and not Wiggins. Wiggins would have had a small SG on him. Martin is a better scorer than Bazz and yet Wiggins plays better with Bazz. Why? One of the biggest reason is b/c Bazz is way stronger physically and teams have to respect that. They can't stick a small SG on Bazz like they can Martin.

True, when Wiggins bulks up he will be a miss match most of the time regardless of position, but it's ridiculous to say the other wing does not even factor in. If Bazz keeps it going like he was that poses a big problem. Does the other team put their physically stronger defender on Wiggins or Bazz? The other teams small wing will be on the other. It forces them to make a tougher choice vs having a lineup of Wiggins & a weaker guy like Martin. The Parsons/Ellis pair is another example. Ellis on Bazz? lol

thegrey08 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:In the long run Wiggins will both defend the other team's best wing and be guarded by their best wing. Our other wing won't have an effect on that equation because Wiggins will have to be defended first and foremost. I don't see a situation where a team says the guy next to Wiggins is enough of a hassle to give Wiggins the easier matchup. Nobody was sticking their best defender on Wade over Lebron even when Wade was a major mismatch with his post game and driving ability as a SG. That's like saying you would guard Pippen over Jordan on nights when Pippen had a matchup advantage over the secondary defender. You defend the best player regardless of the other matchups.

I definitely said stronger physically. Not their "best defender". Sometimes that may be one in the same. Either way look at what we've already seen with the Bazz/Wiggins duo. Bazz nearly always had the more physically strong defender on him, not Wiggins. If Bazz was in the lineup Deng would have been on him and not Wiggins. Wiggins would have had a small SG on him. Martin is a better scorer than Bazz and yet Wiggins plays better with Bazz. Why? One of the biggest reason is b/c Bazz is way stronger physically and teams have to respect that. They can't stick a small SG on Bazz like they can Martin.

True, when Wiggins bulks up he will be a miss match most of the time regardless of position, but it's ridiculous to say the other wing does not even factor in. If Bazz keeps it going like he was that poses a big problem. Does the other team put their physically stronger defender on Wiggins or Bazz? The other teams small wing will be on the other. It forces them to make a tougher choice vs having a lineup of Wiggins & a weaker guy like Martin. The Parsons/Ellis pair is another example. Ellis on Bazz? lol

So you are honestly saying that once Wiggins bulks up and becomes more difficult to guard regardless of position the other team would defend him with a smaller and more likely worse defender because of Bazz or a more physical 3? I just don't see that happening. If Wiggins is the better offensive weapon, a team like the Mavs would put Parsons on him and just double Bazz in the post. You're saying they would actively let Wiggins destroy them with a mismatch advantage than Bazz just because Bazz is a physical player. Again, that's like choosing to guard Pippen over Jordan. I think you're getting too cute with the size idea. Defense comes down to your best guys guarding their best guys and trying to hide your weaker defenders if possible. Your Wiggins/Bazz lineup works this year because Wiggins is still 19 and hasn't developed his body yet. That makes sense now, but not when Wiggins bulks up. Then the other team will have to put their best and most likely more physical guy on Wiggins regardless of who he is playing with. Teams make their defensive choices off of your best player and worry about everyone else later. They don't just give your best guy a more favorable matchup because they are worried about someone else being physical. They will let Bazz try to destroy them over Wiggins everyday of the week because Bazz can just be doubled in the post to take away his physical advantage.

khans2k5 wrote:In the long run Wiggins will both defend the other team's best wing and be guarded by their best wing. Our other wing won't have an effect on that equation because Wiggins will have to be defended first and foremost. I don't see a situation where a team says the guy next to Wiggins is enough of a hassle to give Wiggins the easier matchup. Nobody was sticking their best defender on Wade over Lebron even when Wade was a major mismatch with his post game and driving ability as a SG. That's like saying you would guard Pippen over Jordan on nights when Pippen had a matchup advantage over the secondary defender. You defend the best player regardless of the other matchups.

Exactly. Like I said, we can call Wiggins whatever we want but it still comes down to who guards him and if his wing running mate can punish the other. Shabazz has the ability to punish weaker defenders.

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:In the long run Wiggins will both defend the other team's best wing and be guarded by their best wing. Our other wing won't have an effect on that equation because Wiggins will have to be defended first and foremost. I don't see a situation where a team says the guy next to Wiggins is enough of a hassle to give Wiggins the easier matchup. Nobody was sticking their best defender on Wade over Lebron even when Wade was a major mismatch with his post game and driving ability as a SG. That's like saying you would guard Pippen over Jordan on nights when Pippen had a matchup advantage over the secondary defender. You defend the best player regardless of the other matchups.

Exactly. Like I said, we can call Wiggins whatever we want but it still comes down to who guards him and if his wing running mate can punish the other. Shabazz has the ability to punish weaker defenders.

Good luck doubling Shabazz in the post. He is showing he is can pass out of it, but doubles usually don't work with him because he puts up the shot quickly out of the post. I still think we will see more from Shabazz as a 3 point shooter to go with him post and motion game.

bleedspeed177 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:In the long run Wiggins will both defend the other team's best wing and be guarded by their best wing. Our other wing won't have an effect on that equation because Wiggins will have to be defended first and foremost. I don't see a situation where a team says the guy next to Wiggins is enough of a hassle to give Wiggins the easier matchup. Nobody was sticking their best defender on Wade over Lebron even when Wade was a major mismatch with his post game and driving ability as a SG. That's like saying you would guard Pippen over Jordan on nights when Pippen had a matchup advantage over the secondary defender. You defend the best player regardless of the other matchups.

Exactly. Like I said, we can call Wiggins whatever we want but it still comes down to who guards him and if his wing running mate can punish the other. Shabazz has the ability to punish weaker defenders.

Good luck doubling Shabazz in the post. He is showing he is can pass out of it, but doubles usually don't work with him because he puts up the shot quickly out of the post. I still think we will see more from Shabazz as a 3 point shooter to go with him post and motion game.

They may be selling Bazz short. I'm not saying any ol big physical wing. I'm talking about a good big physical wing. If you have 2 good or great wings and one is stronger/more physical it forces teams to match up. I don't get the Pippen/Jordan example b/c they were both great players. If Pippen was the more physical player you couldn't just throw any ol wing on him. If you are going to have 1 miss match on the wing you don't want to make it worse. A smaller defender that is good defensively would have a better chance guarding Wiggins vs Bazz if he's that much more physical than Wiggins at that point.

I see where both sides are coming from, and they both have legitimate points. I happen to see it on the side that if one player is going to be a mismatch no matter who is guarding him, in this case Wiggins, then you don't go out of your way to create a second mismatch, like Ellis guarding shabazz. The team would do everything to help Ellis guard Wiggins, I don't see them putting themselves in a position where they have to help parsons on Wiggins as well as being forced to double shabazz in the post.

TheFuture wrote:I see where both sides are coming from, and they both have legitimate points. I happen to see it on the side that if one player is going to be a mismatch no matter who is guarding him, in this case Wiggins, then you don't go out of your way to create a second mismatch, like Ellis guarding shabazz. The team would do everything to help Ellis guard Wiggins, I don't see them putting themselves in a position where they have to help parsons on Wiggins as well as being forced to double shabazz in the post.

Well said.

If Flip is going to trade Thad, what about trading him to Clippers? Griffin won't play for next couple of weeks, so they could probably use Thad as their starting power forward during that time. He would complement quite nicely DeAndre Jordan, who is great rebounder and shot blocker. After Griffin comes back, Thad could play more as small forward since Barnes is not real starter material.

Only question is whether Clippers have anything that Minnesota could use? They have traded their 2015 and 2017 1st round picks, so earliest 1st that Minnesota could get would be 2019, which is way too far away.

Mikkeman wrote:If Flip is going to trade Thad, what about trading him to Clippers? Griffin won't play for next couple of weeks, so they could probably use Thad as their starting power forward during that time. He would complement quite nicely DeAndre Jordan, who is great rebounder and shot blocker. After Griffin comes back, Thad could play more as small forward since Barnes is not real starter material.

Only question is whether Clippers have anything that Minnesota could use? They have traded their 2015 and 2017 1st round picks, so earliest 1st that Minnesota could get would be 2019, which is way too far away.

The Clippers have nothing of use to us. The thing with Thad is the teams he is a good fit for have nothing to give that's any good value for us.

PorkChop wrote:With Beal goin down and the Wiz looking like a strong playoff team, maybe they look for some scoring.

Kevin Martin , Thad Young
For
Otto Porter
Nene
this years 1st

Good call. I think they would be a fit. Martin would have to have some interest. Not sure they want to part with Nene thought.