Minnesota Sports Forum

FNG wrote:Great bounce back win after 3 blow-out losses at home. I had this one in the win column in our December/January wins projection thread, but only because I assumed Lillard would be out. Beating Portland on their court with Dame playing is huge.

With DLo and Vando playing the best games I've seen either of them play, it might be a surprise that I give the game ball to PatBev. His defense is always good, but what he did in the 4th quarter to Lillard was criminal...he was in his shorts the entire quarter!

While we got an important road win and our defense looked revived again, I have serious concerns about our offense (some of you commented on this in the GDT). Way too much one-on-one for my taste, and way too little flow. I'm so tired of Ant, KAT and Dlo getting the ball and leaning in and out for 5-10 seconds before jacking up a shot. We can still win games with this ISO strategy, but it's all dependent on making big shots. DLo did it tonight, but I think most of us know it's not sustainable. There's a lot of offensive talent on this roster, but it's not going to be fully utilized if we can't develop some reasonable flow.

Best post-game moment: Ant complaining about Anfernee Simons using the nickname Ant. "He spells his name (checks the box score) A-n-f...how does he get Ant out of that!" Ant is much more fun after wins!

Just watched the DVD. It was a fun game. I agree with all your takes.

I'd have no problem giving the game ball to Pat Bev. I agree that his 4th quarter defense on Lillard was epic. Meanwhile, his energy and leadership on the court and on the bench were readily apparent. No question that DLO was deserving as well with his big 4th quarter shots and the way he ran the team the entire game. But my game ball goes to Vanderbilt. He made big plays on both ends that made a huge difference. You can see his game growing on the offensive end to the point where he's already becoming more than a rebounding energy guy. He has some ball-handling and playmaking chops and a nice basketball IQ. He's turned himself into an excellent free-throw shooter and it was really nice to see him hit that three.

I share your frustration with the constant iso ball from KAT, DLO and Edwards. I don't know how much of the blame lies with them versus the head coach. You'll notice there isn't much off-ball movement when any of those three have the ball. I'd like to believe that Finch has a 3 & 3 rule in practice where at least three players have to touch the ball each offensive possession and no player can hold the ball more than three seconds. We'll see if the offensive evolves over the rest of the season. Finch has a reputation as a good offensive mind. So we'll have to see. Meanwhile, it was nice to get a win on the road in Portland after our recent tailspin.

kekgeek1 wrote:Wolves improve to 25-19 when both Dlo and Kat play in 3 or more quarters lifetime

And the sample size keeps growing. They need more help though. We can't keep falling to pieces because one of those guys is out for a few games. Neither are THAT good. The front office and coaching staff continues to do a pathetic job at growing and developing the players it drafts (unless they were really good to begin with, which is a rarity).

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Wolves improve to 25-19 when both Dlo and Kat play in 3 or more quarters lifetime

And the sample size keeps growing. They need more help though. We can't keep falling to pieces because one of those guys is out for a few games. Neither are THAT good. The front office and coaching staff continues to do a pathetic job at growing and developing the players it drafts (unless they were really good to begin with, which is a rarity).

I agree those two need more help. KAT can't carry this team the way Embiid or Jokic have shown they can carry their teams. I agree that our coaching staffs have historically done a poor job of developing young players. However, I think the jury is out on how well the current coaching staff develops young players. I like the development we've seen from Vanderbilt since Finch arrived late last season. Same for Edwards. McDaniels has taken a step back this season, but it's way too early to draw any remotely definitive conclusions on his development. Moreover, there are reasons he fell so far in last year's draft in spite of his obvious gifts. I'm interested in seeing how Nowell develops this season under Finch and his coaching staff. Part of development is patience. The teams that are good at developing players stick with them in early years of struggle. Flip Saunders and his coaching staff actually did a nice job of developing Chauncey Billups, but the organization gave up on him too soon.

The problem I see is that we don't have the talent we need on this team - young or old - to adequately supplement the contributions of KAT, DLO and Edwards. Right now, Beverley and Vanderbilt are the only two complementary players I have confidence in. That leaves this team too thin, especially given DLO's inability to stay on the court. We still need to add size and rebounding in my view, but we also need to improve our three-point shooting off the bench. Right now, we have no one on the roster we can count on to pick up at least some of the slack if KAT, DLO, Edwards or even Vanderbilt goes down. That's a big problem. I want to see more of Nowell because I think he can help in the backcourt. And I want to see Beasley's shot return to what it was before this season. But that's not enough. Moreover, we still need to add a big without giving up Beasley or any of our key players.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Wolves improve to 25-19 when both Dlo and Kat play in 3 or more quarters lifetime

And the sample size keeps growing. They need more help though. We can't keep falling to pieces because one of those guys is out for a few games. Neither are THAT good. The front office and coaching staff continues to do a pathetic job at growing and developing the players it drafts (unless they were really good to begin with, which is a rarity).

I agree those two need more help. KAT can't carry this team the way Embiid or Jokic have shown they can carry their teams. I agree that our coaching staffs have historically done a poor job of developing young players. However, I think the jury is out on how well the current coaching staff develops young players. I like the development we've seen from Vanderbilt since Finch arrived late last season. Same for Edwards. McDaniels has taken a step back this season, but it's way too early to draw any remotely definitive conclusions on his development. Moreover, there are reasons he fell so far in last year's draft in spite of his obvious gifts. I'm interested in seeing how Nowell develops this season under Finch and his coaching staff. Part of development is patience. The teams that are good at developing players stick with them in early years of struggle. Flip Saunders and his coaching staff actually did a nice job of developing Chauncey Billups, but the organization gave up on him too soon.

The problem I see is that we don't have the talent we need on this team - young or old - to adequately supplement the contributions of KAT, DLO and Edwards. Right now, Beverley and Vanderbilt are the only two complementary players I have confidence in. That leaves this team too thin, especially given DLO's inability to stay on the court. We still need to add size and rebounding in my view, but we also need to improve our three-point shooting off the bench. Right now, we have no one on the roster we can count on to pick up at least some of the slack if KAT, DLO, Edwards or even Vanderbilt goes down. That's a big problem. I want to see more of Nowell because I think he can help in the backcourt. And I want to see Beasley's shot return to what it was before this season. But that's not enough. Moreover, we still need to add a big without giving up Beasley or any of our key players.

Yeah but it seems every historical good 3P shooter we bring in shows up and sucks. It's too often to not be a trend we should look closer at. I just don't think it's random. Something is going on. We can bring in more guys but what if they can't shoot here???

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Wolves improve to 25-19 when both Dlo and Kat play in 3 or more quarters lifetime

And the sample size keeps growing. They need more help though. We can't keep falling to pieces because one of those guys is out for a few games. Neither are THAT good. The front office and coaching staff continues to do a pathetic job at growing and developing the players it drafts (unless they were really good to begin with, which is a rarity).

I agree those two need more help. KAT can't carry this team the way Embiid or Jokic have shown they can carry their teams. I agree that our coaching staffs have historically done a poor job of developing young players. However, I think the jury is out on how well the current coaching staff develops young players. I like the development we've seen from Vanderbilt since Finch arrived late last season. Same for Edwards. McDaniels has taken a step back this season, but it's way too early to draw any remotely definitive conclusions on his development. Moreover, there are reasons he fell so far in last year's draft in spite of his obvious gifts. I'm interested in seeing how Nowell develops this season under Finch and his coaching staff. Part of development is patience. The teams that are good at developing players stick with them in early years of struggle. Flip Saunders and his coaching staff actually did a nice job of developing Chauncey Billups, but the organization gave up on him too soon.

The problem I see is that we don't have the talent we need on this team - young or old - to adequately supplement the contributions of KAT, DLO and Edwards. Right now, Beverley and Vanderbilt are the only two complementary players I have confidence in. That leaves this team too thin, especially given DLO's inability to stay on the court. We still need to add size and rebounding in my view, but we also need to improve our three-point shooting off the bench. Right now, we have no one on the roster we can count on to pick up at least some of the slack if KAT, DLO, Edwards or even Vanderbilt goes down. That's a big problem. I want to see more of Nowell because I think he can help in the backcourt. And I want to see Beasley's shot return to what it was before this season. But that's not enough. Moreover, we still need to add a big without giving up Beasley or any of our key players.

Yeah but it seems every historical good 3P shooter we bring in shows up and sucks. It's too often to not be a trend we should look closer at. I just don't think it's random. Something is going on. We can bring in more guys but what if they can't shoot here???

I'm not sure that's true. Just looking at our current roster, KAT wasn't a 3-point shooter in college, but he's been a consistently elite 3-point shooter with the Wolves. Edwards has had better 3-point percentage with the Wolves both last season and so far this season than he had in college. Beasley and Russell are shooting below their career averages so far this season, but last season they both shot well above their career averages. In his 51 games before this season, Beasley had the best 3-point percentage of his career. On the flip side, Beverley's 3-point shooting with the Wolves this season is substantially below his career average. So it's a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to comparing the 3-point shooting percentages of Wolves players with their percentages on previous teams.

Looking at past players, the picture is similarly mixed. Andrew Wiggins has substantially improved his 3-point percentage since leaving the Wolves. But no telling whether he would have shown the same improvement if he had stayed here, although I'm sure it helps playing with a superstar like Curry in an offensive system that moves the ball well and consistently creates good looks. In his one season with the Wolves, Jamal Crawford hit 33.1% of his 3-point attempts, which was slightly below his career 34.8% three-point percentage. But note that the next season with the Suns he had the same 3-point percentage. So maybe it was a sign his career was over. He certainly didn't improve after leaving Minnesota. In contrast to Wiggins and Crawford, Chauncey Billups saw his 3-point percentage increase from around 33% before coming to the Wolves to 37.6% in his first season with the Wolves and up to 39.4% in his second and final season with the Wolves. The Wolves stupidly let him go just as he was hitting his stride. Zach LaVine's 3-point percentage in three seasons with the Wolves was on par with his 3-point percentage since being traded to the Bulls. In his one full season with the Wolves, Jimmy Butler had the 5th-best 3-point percentage of his career in 13 year career and his 3-point percentage has been lower in every one of his 3+ seasons since leaving the Wolves.

So I don't think there's a clear pattern of decaying 3-point shooting once players come here or significantly improved 3-point shooting once they leave. To the extent some players have underperformed here, I suspect that having consistently bad rosters has probably negatively impacted their stats. In any event, the evidence doesn't show a clear pattern one way or the other. As I see it, the Wolves typically poor three-point shooting isn't difficult to explain. It's the produce of bad player personnel decisions. When you draft poor 3-point shooters like Culver and trade away good ones like Chauncey Billups and Zach LaVine, you get poor 3-point shooting. I think Russell and Beasley will come around by the end of the season. Beverley is being asked to do more for the Wolves than he's had to do for other teams, so we might not see his 3-point shooting return to the mean. For now, I'm thrilled that Edwards is a better three-point shooter with the Wolves than he was in college. I want him to become better with his three point shots and take fewer of them. If we draft, trade for and sign good three-point shooters, we'll ultimately have a good three-point shooting team. It would also help if our offense showed more ball-movement.