Minnesota Sports Forum

The player that Atlanta would have attached to John Collins for Malik Beasley would have been Tony Snell and his $12-million expiring contract.

Camden wrote:The player that Atlanta would have attached to John Collins for Malik Beasley would have been Tony Snell and his $12-million expiring contract.

Yeah, that is what has been rumored and it makes sense. I also might consider a sign and trade, where the value Collins is seeking might approximate Beasley plus Juancho's salary. Then like Lip, I would only include the pick with significant protection.

Yeah, re-signed Collins for Beasley, Juancho and a lottery-protected 2024 pick. But again, I'm not sure I'd even do that,

FNG wrote:

crazysauce wrote:Apparently according to Kevin O'Connor the hawks offered Collins for beasley and a first and the wolves declined. In case you were wondering what the value was.

Interesting report. O'Connor is pretty reputable, isn't he? I see that he quotes "league sources" and that always confuses me. Either Atlanta leaked his deal, or the Wolves did? Or one of them gave a phony report to O'Connor. So, what would the motive of either team be for leaking this? I can't see why Atlanta would, but maybe the Wolves did to show Beasley they were committed to him. I'm just curious.

I don't think I would do this deal eugh I would have to think about it. Two reasons. The Wolves tend to be too cavalier with draft picks, and I don't know if I want to give another first rounder up. More importantly, the max or near max deal Collins will want would leave us with KAT/DLO/Collins occupying most of our cap space...I don't think that's good enough.

But I at least pick up the phone...

I can't see much of a scenario where I would want to give up a #1 in a Collins deal. And if that means we can't get Collins so be it. We are not good enough where we give up all flexibility. So much hinges on our current young players because KAT/DLO, and Collins are far from good enough. If no one from our young stable develops into a top 3 component on this team, and we don't have #1 picks in 2 of the next 3 years, you might as well move the team. Luckily I think we have some guys on this team who are going to develop very nicely. I'm a big fan of both #1 picks from this year, and I think Naz and Nowell have a lot of room for growth. Whether any becomes a star is to be determined, but if and when they do we need to have some flexibility. It's hard enough to contend in the big market NBA culture, you can't double down on that by capping your ceiling.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

FNG wrote:

crazysauce wrote:Apparently according to Kevin O'Connor the hawks offered Collins for beasley and a first and the wolves declined. In case you were wondering what the value was.

Interesting report. O'Connor is pretty reputable, isn't he? I see that he quotes "league sources" and that always confuses me. Either Atlanta leaked his deal, or the Wolves did? Or one of them gave a phony report to O'Connor. So, what would the motive of either team be for leaking this? I can't see why Atlanta would, but maybe the Wolves did to show Beasley they were committed to him. I'm just curious.

I don't think I would do this deal eugh I would have to think about it. Two reasons. The Wolves tend to be too cavalier with draft picks, and I don't know if I want to give another first rounder up. More importantly, the max or near max deal Collins will want would leave us with KAT/DLO/Collins occupying most of our cap space...I don't think that's good enough.

But I at least pick up the phone...

I can't see much of a scenario where I would want to give up a #1 in a Collins deal. And if that means we can't get Collins so be it. We are not good enough where we give up all flexibility. So much hinges on our current young players because KAT/DLO, and Collins are far from good enough. If no one from our young stable develops into a top 3 component on this team, and we don't have #1 picks in 2 of the next 3 years, you might as well move the team. Luckily I think we have some guys on this team who are going to develop very nicely. I'm a big fan of both #1 picks from this year, and I think Naz and Nowell have a lot of room for growth. Whether any becomes a star is to be determined, but if and when they do we need to have some flexibility. It's hard enough to contend in the big market NBA culture, you can't double down on that by capping your ceiling.

Yeah, you changed my mind. I don't do any deal that either leaves us with KAT/DLO/Collins as our Big 3, or that gives up a first rounder.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

FNG wrote:

crazysauce wrote:Apparently according to Kevin O'Connor the hawks offered Collins for beasley and a first and the wolves declined. In case you were wondering what the value was.

Interesting report. O'Connor is pretty reputable, isn't he? I see that he quotes "league sources" and that always confuses me. Either Atlanta leaked his deal, or the Wolves did? Or one of them gave a phony report to O'Connor. So, what would the motive of either team be for leaking this? I can't see why Atlanta would, but maybe the Wolves did to show Beasley they were committed to him. I'm just curious.

I don't think I would do this deal eugh I would have to think about it. Two reasons. The Wolves tend to be too cavalier with draft picks, and I don't know if I want to give another first rounder up. More importantly, the max or near max deal Collins will want would leave us with KAT/DLO/Collins occupying most of our cap space...I don't think that's good enough.

But I at least pick up the phone...

I can't see much of a scenario where I would want to give up a #1 in a Collins deal. And if that means we can't get Collins so be it. We are not good enough where we give up all flexibility. So much hinges on our current young players because KAT/DLO, and Collins are far from good enough. If no one from our young stable develops into a top 3 component on this team, and we don't have #1 picks in 2 of the next 3 years, you might as well move the team. Luckily I think we have some guys on this team who are going to develop very nicely. I'm a big fan of both #1 picks from this year, and I think Naz and Nowell have a lot of room for growth. Whether any becomes a star is to be determined, but if and when they do we need to have some flexibility. It's hard enough to contend in the big market NBA culture, you can't double down on that by capping your ceiling.

I couldn't agree more. Collins is not even that good. Then we have to watch and see what Glen decides to pay him? No thanks.

I think I could be talked into a John Collins trade. Easily. I think he's good. Even with two things going against it. But even those have caveats...

1. Building around two bigs. I'm big into saying that teams can't win without wing play. BUT... with Anthony Edwards... is he legit? Because two stretch bigs and a dominant attacking force... that could be fun and even zigging a bit when everybody else is zagging.

2. So much money tied up in Russell + Towns + Collins. I get that angle. But here's my take... Collins is better than Russell. Collins has more potential than Russell. So why are we so against adding the better player simply because a worse player is here? Get rid of the worse player! Wouldn't that solve the problem? (I acknowledge I don't know how easy moving off Russell would be...)

-----------

Here's an article about it: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/22/22343534/john-collins-atlanta-hawks-trade-deadline

And excerpts:

"Market inequalities being what they are, not every franchise has a real shot at landing prime-aged, upper-tier talent in free agency; the have-nots need to either hope to get lucky in the draft, swing for the fences via trade, or pay a sticker-shock-inducing premium for the privilege.

Rumblings, like the ones Jackie MacMullan recently shared on The Bill Simmons Podcast, that the Timberwolves are "dying" to add Collins make a similar sort of sense. Lineups in which two range-shooting bigs like Collins and Towns--who, lest we forget, might be the sharpest-shooting big man ever--could stretch defenses and open up the lane for Anthony Edwards and D'Angelo Russell to get downhill and pile up points in a hurry, and help propel Minnesota out of the morass it's been mired in. (They could also concede a ton of points, but that hasn't seemed to bother the Wolves to this point. Why should it start now?)"

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

FNG wrote:

crazysauce wrote:Apparently according to Kevin O'Connor the hawks offered Collins for beasley and a first and the wolves declined. In case you were wondering what the value was.

Interesting report. O'Connor is pretty reputable, isn't he? I see that he quotes "league sources" and that always confuses me. Either Atlanta leaked his deal, or the Wolves did? Or one of them gave a phony report to O'Connor. So, what would the motive of either team be for leaking this? I can't see why Atlanta would, but maybe the Wolves did to show Beasley they were committed to him. I'm just curious.

I don't think I would do this deal eugh I would have to think about it. Two reasons. The Wolves tend to be too cavalier with draft picks, and I don't know if I want to give another first rounder up. More importantly, the max or near max deal Collins will want would leave us with KAT/DLO/Collins occupying most of our cap space...I don't think that's good enough.

But I at least pick up the phone...

I can't see much of a scenario where I would want to give up a #1 in a Collins deal. And if that means we can't get Collins so be it. We are not good enough where we give up all flexibility. So much hinges on our current young players because KAT/DLO, and Collins are far from good enough. If no one from our young stable develops into a top 3 component on this team, and we don't have #1 picks in 2 of the next 3 years, you might as well move the team. Luckily I think we have some guys on this team who are going to develop very nicely. I'm a big fan of both #1 picks from this year, and I think Naz and Nowell have a lot of room for growth. Whether any becomes a star is to be determined, but if and when they do we need to have some flexibility. It's hard enough to contend in the big market NBA culture, you can't double down on that by capping your ceiling.

I'm with you, Cool. I'd be tempted to do the Beasley deal if the pick were lottery protected and converted to a 2nd-round pick after a couple years. But I still probably wouldn't do it for the reasons you've given. This franchise simply isn't in a position to give up yet another future 1st round pick after already giving up our 2021 or 2022 pick in the DLO deal.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I think I could be talked into a John Collins trade. Easily. I think he's good. Even with two things going against it. But even those have caveats...

1. Building around two bigs. I'm big into saying that teams can't win without wing play. BUT... with Anthony Edwards... is he legit? Because two stretch bigs and a dominant attacking force... that could be fun and even zigging a bit when everybody else is zagging.

2. So much money tied up in Russell + Towns + Collins. I get that angle. But here's my take... Collins is better than Russell. Collins has more potential than Russell. So why are we so against adding the better player simply because a worse player is here? Get rid of the worse player! Wouldn't that solve the problem? (I acknowledge I don't know how easy moving off Russell would be...)

-----------

Here's an article about it: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/22/22343534/john-collins-atlanta-hawks-trade-deadline

And excerpts:

"Market inequalities being what they are, not every franchise has a real shot at landing prime-aged, upper-tier talent in free agency; the have-nots need to either hope to get lucky in the draft, swing for the fences via trade, or pay a sticker-shock-inducing premium for the privilege.

Rumblings, like the ones Jackie MacMullan recently shared on The Bill Simmons Podcast, that the Timberwolves are "dying" to add Collins make a similar sort of sense. Lineups in which two range-shooting bigs like Collins and Towns--who, lest we forget, might be the sharpest-shooting big man ever--could stretch defenses and open up the lane for Anthony Edwards and D'Angelo Russell to get downhill and pile up points in a hurry, and help propel Minnesota out of the morass it's been mired in. (They could also concede a ton of points, but that hasn't seemed to bother the Wolves to this point. Why should it start now?)"

Because tripling down on a shit team makes zero sense. We are out of a top pick this year or next, have yet to see our team together, have a new coach/scheme, and are up against the cap. Any big trade right now is stupid and likely harmful. Next year it makes much more sense to me because we do not compete against ourselves on Collins, have a large expiring in Rubio, one less year on Juancho, and will know about our pick status.

Furthermore, the Hawks haven't been overly thrilled with the offerings. For instance, the Dallas Mavericks proposed a package featuring sharpshooter Maxi Kleber, sources said.

Link: https://sports.yahoo.com/hoopla-with-haynes-aaron-gordon-wont-be-traded-to-rockets-kings-make-marvin-bagley-iii-available-171248310.html

Well, if you wondered what kind of offers the Hawks would realistically get for John Collins then here you go. Maxi Kleber, folks...

Also, the Kings have made Marvin Bagley III available and reportedly offered him to the Pistons for Saddiq Bey. Obviously, Detroit declined such an offer. How much interest should there be in the former top pick? Would a swap for Jarrett Culver be intriguing for both teams? Before the season I wouldn't have made that move, but now I would.

Camden0916 wrote:

Furthermore, the Hawks haven't been overly thrilled with the offerings. For instance, the Dallas Mavericks proposed a package featuring sharpshooter Maxi Kleber, sources said.

Link: https://sports.yahoo.com/hoopla-with-haynes-aaron-gordon-wont-be-traded-to-rockets-kings-make-marvin-bagley-iii-available-171248310.html

Well, if you wondered what kind of offers the Hawks would realistically get for John Collins then here you go. Maxi Kleber, folks...

Also, the Kings have made Marvin Bagley III available and reportedly offered him to the Pistons for Saddiq Bey. Obviously, Detroit declined such an offer. How much interest should there be in the former top pick? Would a swap for Jarrett Culver be intriguing for both teams? Before the season I wouldn't have made that move, but now I would.

Culver for Bagley was my dream trade at the beginning of the year. Makes sense for both teams.