Minnesota Sports Forum

WF, I don't think you're going to get any argument from anyone here about the quality of Ricky's play at the start of the season...he was not good at all. Many posts have documented that he just didn't look at all like himself, and some even wondered if his game had totally deteriorated since the end a very successful season and he was done. Others wondered whether the lingering effects of Covid combined with getting familiar with a new team...and the least experienced roster in the league at that...were the primary reasons for his poor play, along with the fact that he was primarily coming off the bench for the first time in his career (and clearly didn't like it). His outstanding play since he moved back into his customary starting PG role seems to be evidence for the latter...if anything, he is playing even better than he did in Phoenix last year.

So the question is this. How do we evaluate Ricky's play...by focusing on what he did as a reserve early in the season, or by paying more attention to what he did last season and the past 20 games? Most of us would say the latter is more relevant.

That's a lot of excuses for a 30-year old Ricky Rubio -- a veteran "leader" -- making $17-million this season. I just don't think any reason we could come up with should excuse him of how bad he was for half of the season. He legitimately looked like he didn't belong in the NBA for a while.

FNG wrote:WF, I don't think you're going to get any argument from anyone here about the quality of Ricky's play at the start of the season...he was not good at all. Many posts have documented that he just didn't look at all like himself, and some even wondered if his game had totally deteriorated since the end a very successful season and he was done. Others wondered whether the lingering effects of Covid combined with getting familiar with a new team...and the least experienced roster in the league at that...were the primary reasons for his poor play, along with the fact that he was primarily coming off the bench for the first time in his career (and clearly didn't like it). His outstanding play since he moved back into his customary starting PG role seems to be evidence for the latter...if anything, he is playing even better than he did in Phoenix last year.

So the question is this. How do we evaluate Ricky's play...by focusing on what he did as a reserve early in the season, or by paying more attention to what he did last season and the past 20 games? Most of us would say the latter is more relevant.

I agree that as trade bait or if he stays our hope is that his recent play continues. I do have some concern he could fall off again and was not starting a part of that issue? It shouldn't be but it could have been. He certainly looked bad physically, so I am more apt to blame his covid hangover for being slow and out of shape.

My only point is that if Ricky wasn't essentially or "close to" the worst PG in the league at the time we'd have won many more games. Sure you can point to others as well (including injuries) but as a veteran that was one of my least concerns. He was probably the biggest disappointment early on, that along with KAT getting hurt then getting sick himself.

Everyone was angry at Ryan for playing him down the stretch in close games with DLO. Did posters wipe that from their memory? :D

Camden wrote:That's a lot of excuses for a 30-year old Ricky Rubio -- a veteran "leader" -- making $17-million this season. I just don't think any reason we could come up with should excuse him of how bad he was for half of the season. He legitimately looked like he didn't belong in the NBA for a while.

As you know, I was really unhappy when I heard that Rosas traded for Ricky. I thought he was a pretty poor fit for this team and that it made little sense to pay $17M for a backup PG, especially when we had other far more pressing needs to fill and players like Julius Randle and Christian Wood likely available for the same amount or less. And there's no disputing that Ricky's play was putrid the first month of the season, namely January. But I think we should consider two important points.

First, Ricky's poor play at the beginning of the season isn't about blame or excuses. It might be worth explaining because his play back then was so out of character for him, especially when compared to his play the last couple seasons. His pre-season bout with Covid strikes me as the only rational explanation. Based on what I've read and on the experiences of people I know who've had it, that disease can be incredibly debilitating with long-lasting residual effects on stamina, energy levels, physical strength and mental concentration. The only reasonable explanation for Ricky's poor play early this season is that he had some or all of those residual effects. I've seen those effects in the every-day lives of people I know. So it stands to reason that those effects would be even more obvious and impactful in an athlete attempting to play at the highest level of competition in the world - for example, the NBA. I think those effects were likely compounded by the need to adjust to a different, unpredictable role on a bad team under a bad beach coach, but the noticeably significant decline in Ricky's reactions, movement and energy were likely the result of his earlier illness. Again, that's not an excuse; it simply explains an obvious anomaly in Ricky's play.

Second, at this point, Ricky's early season play is irrelevant right now. As we've all seen, his play has markedly improved over the past 4-6 weeks to the point where he's back to the level he's been at the past couple years. In the past 7 games (all of March), Rubio has averaged 13.9 points, 8.4 assists, 3.1 rebounds, 1.6 steals and 2.0 turnovers in 29 minutes per game while shooting 52.6% from the field and 38.5% from behind the arc on 3.7 attempts. In his 16 games before that (all of February), Ricky averaged 9.2 points, 6.9 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 1.2 steals and 1.8 turnovers in 27.5 minutes per game while shooting 40.2% from the field and 36.7% from behind the arc on 3.1 attempts. So even his February numbers were pretty good and in line with his career and previous season stats. In contrast, his January numbers were abysmal. In that month, he averaged 5.2 points, 6.2 assists and 2.5 turnovers in 23 minutes per game while shooting a pathetic 28.6% from the field and 6.3% from behind the arc on only 1.2 attempts. His play in January was terrible, but his improvement since then has been dramatic as his numbers became solid in February and excellent in March.

We are now seeing the Ricky Rubio that Rosas thought he was getting when he traded for him. I still don't like the deal that brought him here, but the Rubio we've seen these past 4-6 weeks is the Rubio to evaluate in deciding whether to trade him or what his trade value should be. There's a more than plausible explanation for how terrible Ricky's play was in January. But how horrible he was back then is really beside the point, even though it certainly has a rational explanation. If other teams want to value Ricky's trade value based on his performance in January, then so be it. In that case, Rosas should hold onto Ricky and look for trade opportunities on draft day or at the trade deadline next season. In the meantime, it will be up to Finch to figure out how to best use Ricky when DLO and Beasley are back. The good news is that it will be Finch, and not Ryan Saunders, making that decision.

As a Wolves fan I just can't ignore the first 24 games of this season like they didn't happen and focus only on his last 16. I wouldn't do that for any other player so why would this be any different? I also can't chalk it up to COVID as to why he was as awful as he was. I don't see the logic in that excuse when he was also sidelined for COVID in January. Wouldn't Rubio have returned from that absence to play terrible basketball again instead of looking more like himself? It just doesn't add up. Not to mention COVID doesn't explain all the mental blunders Rubio had in games. And it's not like Rubio was the most athletic point guard to begin with.

I can recognize that Ricky Rubio's play has improved considerably over the course of the season. And thank goodness for that because I don't know how much longer I could have watched whatever game he was playing early on. Hopefully there's a front office that is willing to give him all the benefit of the doubt that this board does and decides to offer something substantial for him. There's just no reason to have $17-million allocated to backup point guard. It's a poor use of resources and this franchise has seen enough losing with him apart of it. I'm sure deep down Rubio's ready to leave as well. He escaped Minnesota and had a taste of winning basketball in Utah and Phoenix only to be brought back here. One step forward and two steps back.

WF, we were regularly getting blown out by double digits early this season...often by 20 or more. It's almost impossible to argue that one player's poor play prevented us from "many more wins". I would argue that his poor play didn't contribute to any losses at all. We only had two losses by 5 or fewer points in December and January, and Ricky played very well in one (San Antonio) and didn't suit up in the other (Orlando). So yeah, he was terrible at the start of the season, but so was the rest of the team, so it's difficult to pin any losses on him.

But what's more relevant is how he is playing now. I agree that the Wolves need to move Ricky if they're not going to start him...he clearly wasn't either happy or productive coming off the bench. And why would he be happy? His stats as a starter this year are among the elite PGs in the league. In the 25 games he has started, he is averaging 10.6 points, 7.2 assists, and only 2.1 TOs per game, while almost 44% overall and 38% on threes...comparable to last year's stats with better shooting. How many other PGs are averaging over 10 points and 7 assists, while shooting over 37% on threes? Only 4...Chris Paul, Ben Simmons, Dame Lillard, and Kyle Lowry. Pretty good company, and he's turning the ball over much less than the other 4. And with apologies to the PMP (although I have deferred to them by leading with the raw box score stats they prefer), his overall on/off stats (including his poor play as a bench player) are better than Paul and Lowry, and close to Simmons and Lillard...I have no access to his on/off numbers as a starter, but I have no doubt they are better than the other four star PGs.

How do you put this guy on the bench? Start him, or trade him...his value has to be pretty high right now if his stats can be in the same conversation with Paul, Simmons, Lillard and Lowry.

Lip, I also think his huge drop off from his Phoenix play to his early season performance here was Covid related. I also might suggest that he is still suffering some of the residual effects you mention, and that may be why his minutes as a starter are more limited than usual...less than 28 per game. I think he is just rounding himself back into shape though, as indicated by Finch playing him 33 minutes last game.

Covid isn't the only reason though. His numbers as a starter and as a reserve are so starkly different, you have to factor that in. Plus, getting used to a bunch of largely inexperienced teammates is not an easy thing. He's now healthier, he's more used to the playing style of guys like Vando and Nowell, and he's starting...three reasons why he is playing at such a high level now compared to early in the season. Pretty easy to figure this one out!

Let's backtrack here for a second. Are we talking about his positive COVID test from last summer with the Phoenix Suns? I'd assume so because I can't find anything prior to this season's start regarding Ricky Rubio and COVID. Rubio tested positive resulting in him being late to joining the Suns in the bubble in Orlando. After two negative tests he was cleared and went on to average 12.9 PPG (43.2 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 95.5 FT%), 7.9 APG, 4.9 RPG, and 0.8 SPG in 26.8 MPG in those eight games where Phoenix went undefeated. Rubio was great in the bubble directly after having COVID. He said he had no symptoms and just needed to get back into basketball shape after being off for as long as they were. But other than that there were no issues.

So, as politely as I can say this, what the fuck are we talking about here? You're telling me that Rubio has COVID and then plays great in basically a playoff stretch for Phoenix, then has a short off-season, COVID decides that it wants to affect Rubio after he's traded to Minnesota, and that's the cause of his horrendous play? Let's call a spade a spade. Rubio came into the season in poor physical shape and played awful for about two months. That responsibility falls on his shoulders -- not COVID's. Some accountability would be nice. And now he's playing much better, thankfully. This is the reality.

FNG wrote:WF, we were regularly getting blown out by double digits early this season...often by 20 or more. It's almost impossible to argue that one player's poor play prevented us from "many more wins". I would argue that his poor play didn't contribute to any losses at all. We only had two losses by 5 or fewer points in December and January, and Ricky played very well in one (San Antonio) and didn't suit up in the other (Orlando). So yeah, he was terrible at the start of the season, but so was the rest of the team, so it's difficult to pin any losses on him.

But what's more relevant is how he is playing now. I agree that the Wolves need to move Ricky if they're not going to start him...he clearly wasn't either happy or productive coming off the bench. And why would he be happy? His stats as a starter this year are among the elite PGs in the league. In the 25 games he has started, he is averaging 10.6 points, 7.2 assists, and only 2.1 TOs per game, while almost 44% overall and 38% on threes...comparable to last year's stats with better shooting. How many other PGs are averaging over 10 points and 7 assists, while shooting over 37% on threes? Only 4...Chris Paul, Ben Simmons, Dame Lillard, and Kyle Lowry. Pretty good company, and he's turning the ball over much less than the other 4. And with apologies to the PMP (although I have deferred to them by leading with the raw box score stats they prefer), his overall on/off stats (including his poor play as a bench player) are better than Paul and Lowry, and close to Simmons and Lillard...I have no access to his on/off numbers as a starter, but I have no doubt they are better than the other four star PGs.

How do you put this guy on the bench? Start him, or trade him...his value has to be pretty high right now if his stats can be in the same conversation with Paul, Simmons, Lillard and Lowry.

I was more likely remembering games in February where his play was starting to come back. I clearly remember stretches where he and DLO finished games that were within 4-5 points (at the time with less than 5 minutes left). It was a nightly thing! If you are down by 4 with 5 minutes left but lose by 12, well you still had a chance to win. So while he started to turn it around, he isn't to where he is now.

No telling how the record would be if we had good Rubio all season. I certainly remember him blowing games in the last 2 minutes with terrible shots and turnovers. It's why we were all so angry at him. Most were angry at Ryan for playing him with DLO, which was proving didn't work.

Now of course you can't put all the blame on Rubio and his poor play but he was certainly part of many of those losses as well. I remember looking up Jordans stats and they were superior to both Rubios and DLOs at the time. I posted, Jordan McGlaughlin is the best PG the Wolves have and he was statistically at least in many metrics.

Camden0916 wrote:Let's backtrack here for a second. Are we talking about his positive COVID test from last summer with the Phoenix Suns? I'd assume so because I can't find anything prior to this season's start regarding Ricky Rubio and COVID. Rubio tested positive resulting in him being late to joining the Suns in the bubble in Orlando. After two negative tests he was cleared and went on to average 12.9 PPG (43.2 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 95.5 FT%), 7.9 APG, 4.9 RPG, and 0.8 SPG in 26.8 MPG in those eight games where Phoenix went undefeated. Rubio was great in the bubble directly after having COVID. He said he had no symptoms and just needed to get back into basketball shape after being off for as long as they were. But other than that there were no issues.

So, as politely as I can say this, what the fuck are we talking about here? You're telling me that Rubio has COVID and then plays great in basically a playoff stretch for Phoenix, then has a short off-season, COVID decides that it wants to affect Rubio after he's traded to Minnesota, and that's the cause of his horrendous play? Let's call a spade a spade. Rubio came into the season in poor physical shape and played awful for about two months. That responsibility falls on his shoulders -- not COVID's. Some accountability would be nice. And now he's playing much better, thankfully. This is the reality.

Honestly I had no idea his Covid sickness was from before the bubble. I thought it was from the off-season. I will retract what I've said previously about Rubio and covid knowing this now.