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Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:16 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Lip, I appreciate your post, but i just don't see how keeping this pick makes any sense. No one in the draft is a sure thing this year. It's time for us to parlay our good fortune into a proven commodity that can help us get to the next level. Simmons has me salivating, but I'm sure there are lots of other good options out there over keeping our pick. Rudy Gobert is another guy we could target.
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:18 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
monsterpile wrote:Camden0916 wrote:Outside of Towns and Russell, I'd make everything and everyone available for a Simmons or Booker trade. We can figure the rest out later.
J-Mac is untouchable for me. Lol
Ha, yes, of course. I'm a big McLaughlin fan too. Would be a big mistake to let him walk, I think.
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:19 pm
by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
lipoli390 wrote:Major deals are usually created by circumstances i.e., when the stars align in a certain way. In this case, the stars seem to be aligning for a deal that brings Ben Simmons, not Booker, to the Wolves.
1. The first star in alignment is the fractured relationship between Simmons and the Sixers organization, including their other star, Embiid. That means the Sixers will not only be open to dealing Simmons but motivated to do so. The only issue will be what they can get from the teams interested in acquiring Simmons. There hasn't been any rumor or report suggesting that the Suns and Booker are at odds. In fact, the Suns relative success in the Orlando bubble probably cemented the team's resolve to keep Booker and Booker's inclination to stay in Phoenix.
2. The second star in alignment is the Wolves draft position, which includes tonight's lottery luck, the rights to the Nets #17 pick and the third pick in the 2nd round. The two most talented players in the draft, Ball and Edwards both make sense as young cohorts for Embiid. The Wolves can deliver one of those players to the Sixers via the #1 pick.
3. The final star in alignment is how well Simmons would fit with the Wolves. The idea of acquiring another poor shooter would have been highly questionable before the trade deadline deals that brought in Russell and Beasley. But with Russell, Beasley, KAT and even some of the other guys like Layman and NAZ, the Wolves now have enough shooting to focus more on two other glaring needs, i.e., playmaking and their most glaring need, defense. Simmons is a great defender and elite playmaker. He's also a terrific rebounder. He checks so many key boxes for the Wolves and does so at an elite level.
The question is what the Wolves would need to give up to get him.
My preference is to keep the pick. I'm a believer in consistently acquiring and replenishing young talent through the draft as a mid-market team. Keeping our picks this year seems particularly important given that the Wolves have traded their first and second round picks next year in the DLO deal. No telling how well a KAT, Russell, Beasley core trio will work. There are question marks surrounding Culver and Okogie, although both also have some significant promise. So I think Rosas should focus on bringing in two or three talented young player through this year's draft and then developing them. One of those three could become the Wolves third star or replace one of our currents young talents if they don't work out.
However, I would definitely explore the possibility of trading our top pick in a package for Simmons - assuming Simmons is healthy. I'd give up our #1 pick and Culver or Okogie along with Johnson to match salaries. But that's it. I wouldn't give them our #17 pick or our 2nd round pick. If that's not enough to pry Simmons away from a team that doesn't really want him in the aftermath of a knee injury, then I'd just say no and keep the pick.
I just can't get on board with the attitude of continuing to try to build through the draft. The most success this franchise has ever had has always involved trading for better players (Sprewell and Cassell and most recently Jimmy). We've played the lotto game for 13 years now and never seen the playoffs without a significant trade acquisition. We have two max players in the prime of their careers and this draft has no day 1 stud like an AD or Zion that can help them both immediately and long-term. Sticking to this pick seems like the worst outcome this team can have for future success. "I'm a believer in consistently acquiring and replenishing young talent through the draft as a mid-market team." We've been that team for most of our franchise's history and it's literally never worked for us. Why is that the road forward?
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:41 pm
by Lipoli390
khans2k5 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Major deals are usually created by circumstances i.e., when the stars align in a certain way. In this case, the stars seem to be aligning for a deal that brings Ben Simmons, not Booker, to the Wolves.
1. The first star in alignment is the fractured relationship between Simmons and the Sixers organization, including their other star, Embiid. That means the Sixers will not only be open to dealing Simmons but motivated to do so. The only issue will be what they can get from the teams interested in acquiring Simmons. There hasn't been any rumor or report suggesting that the Suns and Booker are at odds. In fact, the Suns relative success in the Orlando bubble probably cemented the team's resolve to keep Booker and Booker's inclination to stay in Phoenix.
2. The second star in alignment is the Wolves draft position, which includes tonight's lottery luck, the rights to the Nets #17 pick and the third pick in the 2nd round. The two most talented players in the draft, Ball and Edwards both make sense as young cohorts for Embiid. The Wolves can deliver one of those players to the Sixers via the #1 pick.
3. The final star in alignment is how well Simmons would fit with the Wolves. The idea of acquiring another poor shooter would have been highly questionable before the trade deadline deals that brought in Russell and Beasley. But with Russell, Beasley, KAT and even some of the other guys like Layman and NAZ, the Wolves now have enough shooting to focus more on two other glaring needs, i.e., playmaking and their most glaring need, defense. Simmons is a great defender and elite playmaker. He's also a terrific rebounder. He checks so many key boxes for the Wolves and does so at an elite level.
The question is what the Wolves would need to give up to get him.
My preference is to keep the pick. I'm a believer in consistently acquiring and replenishing young talent through the draft as a mid-market team. Keeping our picks this year seems particularly important given that the Wolves have traded their first and second round picks next year in the DLO deal. No telling how well a KAT, Russell, Beasley core trio will work. There are question marks surrounding Culver and Okogie, although both also have some significant promise. So I think Rosas should focus on bringing in two or three talented young player through this year's draft and then developing them. One of those three could become the Wolves third star or replace one of our currents young talents if they don't work out.
However, I would definitely explore the possibility of trading our top pick in a package for Simmons - assuming Simmons is healthy. I'd give up our #1 pick and Culver or Okogie along with Johnson to match salaries. But that's it. I wouldn't give them our #17 pick or our 2nd round pick. If that's not enough to pry Simmons away from a team that doesn't really want him in the aftermath of a knee injury, then I'd just say no and keep the pick.
I just can't get on board with the attitude of continuing to try to build through the draft. The most success this franchise has ever had has always involved trading for better players (Sprewell and Cassell and most recently Jimmy). We've played the lotto game for 13 years now and never seen the playoffs without a significant trade acquisition. We have two max players in the prime of their careers and this draft has no day 1 stud like an AD or Zion that can help them both immediately and long-term. Sticking to this pick seems like the worst outcome this team can have for future success. "I'm a believer in consistently acquiring and replenishing young talent through the draft as a mid-market team." We've been that team for most of our franchise's history and it's literally never worked for us. Why is that the road forward?
We have had front office personnel over the years who have done a poor job drafting. It's not that the draft is the wrong method; it's that we've had bad front office personnel who've made poor use of drafts. That's at the heart of the Wolves historic failure to be a contender. We haven't succeeded with trades either except for one season of success with the Spree and Sam acquisitions. That's obviously not the sort of sustained success that Rosas said he wants or that we need. Think about all the other trade and free agent acquisitions - Al Jefferson for example. The Wolves haven't been successful in any area of team building - draft, trade or free agency. And some of the team's worst moves have been trading away (or selling) draft picks.
I like the deals Rosas made last season at the deadline. I like the undrafted free agents he signed. Although I was disappointed in his use of last year's draft, this draft is another chance for him to show he and his front office gang can effectively evaluate young talent -- something that the best NBA franchises generally do well but that past Wolves front offices have done poorly. I'd like to see how this team with KAT, its trade deadline acquisitions, Culver, Okogie and undrafted free agents like JMac can do together for a full season before we give up our last chance for the next two years to add additional young potentially elite talent.
Again, if we can land Simmons for our #1 pick and last year's #1 pick, Culver, I'm OK with that. But I wouldn't be intent on trading our pick. And I'd set limits on what the Wolves are willing to give up for any player other than Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard or a few others. Simmons, Booker, Beal and Myles Turner are the only four players who come to mind as guys I'd be interested in acquiring in exchange for our top pick. But they all have significant flaws in their game and it would cost a lot to get any of them. Simmons is a terrible perimeter and free throw shooter. Booker and Beal are poor defenders. And Myles is a good, but not great player.
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:43 pm
by Lipoli390
Camden wrote:monsterpile wrote:Camden0916 wrote:Outside of Towns and Russell, I'd make everything and everyone available for a Simmons or Booker trade. We can figure the rest out later.
J-Mac is untouchable for me. Lol
Ha, yes, of course. I'm a big McLaughlin fan too. Would be a big mistake to let him walk, I think.
J-Mac was instrumental in the Wolves more impressive post trade deadline wins this past season - the win at home over Denver and the win on the road over the Miami. He's definitely a keeper.
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:49 pm
by Duke13
Simple, take Edwards and call it a day. Guys skill set is through the roof.
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:54 pm
by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
Duke13 wrote:Simple, take Edwards and call it a day. Guys skill set is through the roof.
I hear poor shot selection and poor shooting is the key to success in the NBA these days.
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:54 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
Wowzers. Well, that was unexpected. Of course it happened in a year where the talent is pretty even and there is no obvious NBA-read star to be had.
I'm not sure where the "Ben Simmons is good on defense" narrative is coming from. I don't think he's horrible, but I don't think of him as a good defender. He will do very little to shore up that end of the court for us given the gaping holes that exist right now.
I do agree that he might be the best we can hope for with the #1 pick and he fits the profile of position-less basketball.
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:58 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Q12543 wrote:Wowzers. Well, that was unexpected. Of course it happened in a year where the talent is pretty even and there is no obvious NBA-read star to be had.
I'm not sure where the "Ben Simmons is good on defense" narrative is coming from. I don't think he's horrible, but I don't think of him as a good defender. He will do very little to shore up that end of the court for us given the gaping holes that exist right now.
I do agree that he might be the best we can hope for with the #1 pick and he fits the profile of position-less basketball.
Today a Philadelphia writer who covers the team said Simmons is a defensive player of the year type defender. You live there so I am interested in your opinion, but everything I've seen and heard is that he is a fantastic defender.
Re: Wolves win the lottery!!!
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:00 pm
by worldK
If Simmons could be had then we should go all in on him. He can be your best player but not your top scorer type and we have KAT and dlo who can get buckets.
His versatility is going to be huge as you can play him at the 4,3 or even 2 and we can just add talent, shooting and defense at whatever position we can and we will be competitive. He can make rosas job a lot easier.
2020 #1 overall, 2023 1st round pick, 2022 2nd rounder + james johnson and culver or okogie is going to be a good offer.
Booker on the other hand, im 50/50 with.
If we keep the pick then its between wiseman and edwards.
we keep the pick. Wiseman and edwards are the guys we should target.