Wolves trade for Pat Beverly

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We shall see soon enough. I think Beasley's too talented and Finch will see that

The best 6s are very talented. That's the whole point. They bring the scoring punch off the bench that is badly needed. It's almost guaranteed he'll be the 6th man barring an injury before the start of the seasonIt's almost guaranteed he'll be the 6th man barring an injury before the start of the season and he's going to be a damn good one.

I would say its far from guaranteed that he will come off the bench this season. He started 36 out of 37 games last year. The Timberwolves don't currently have 5 better options.

Also FYI I have no problem with him being a 6th man and think he would be great at it.

The Wolves will need to start their best five-man unit, which might not necessarily be their five best individual players. Malik Beasley is one of their five best players, in my opinion, but his weaknesses do not jive well with the team's two stars and their ultra-talented number one overall pick. It's mainly for this reason that he was shopped around the league in search of an upgrade at another position.

IN MY OPINION Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, and whatever power forward Minnesota brings in -- Jarred Vanderbilt included -- will likely be the three starters around D'Angelo Russell and Karl-Anthony Towns. I think this actually works really well for Beasley because he will be looked at for instant offense off the bench in a prioritized role. He'll be the de facto first option of the second unit. Get buckets or die trying. I could see him winning the Sixth Man of the Year award in all honesty. He just needs to buy in.

There I fixed it for you CAM :P

I think the starting 5 will be D-LO, Beasley. Edwards, Mcdaniels, KAT

With Finch as our coach, I would be willing to bet serious money that isn't our starting lineup. You haven't been paying attention to what he's been saying during interviews ("we need to get bigger"; "I like Jaden more as a 3 than a 4", etc.).

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Beverley has had a better career than DLO. He's a better three point shooter, he has a better Assist/Turnover rate and Beverley is a top defender and DLO is the opposite. Not surprisingly, Beverley's net rating have been very good and DLO's have been pretty bad. Unless he's washed, I would like to see Beverley get an opportunity to start. DLO's more suited for a sixth man role anyways.

Patrick Beverley's arrogant and yet even he wouldn't say he's a better shooter than D'Angelo Russell right now. My goodness. I know what the percentages say, but when one player is shooting the majority of his threes off the dribble and the other is purely a catch-and-shoot guy, there's just no comparison.

The numbers say Beverly is the better three point shooter, he's a career 38.2% shooter. DLO is a 36.0% on three point shooting. I don't know why you resort to making up crap to defend your boy DLO.

You and FNG should hang out more. We've been through this multiple times before on DLO's alleged mediocre shooting. As Cam said, he's a higher usage player that creates a lot more shots for himself and others. Beverley's role has largely been to play off of others and be the recipient of open catch-and-shoot looks. Big difference.

Now, if you want to argue that DLO should be in a lower usage role going forward, fine. But that doesn't mean he's the inferior shooter. I can guarantee you opposing defenses are much more worried about DLO getting open looks than PBev (although PBev has been pretty good on that front).

Now if you want to talk about defense and toughness, you probably couldn't come up with two players more different than each other.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Beverley has had a better career than DLO. He's a better three point shooter, he has a better Assist/Turnover rate and Beverley is a top defender and DLO is the opposite. Not surprisingly, Beverley's net rating have been very good and DLO's have been pretty bad. Unless he's washed, I would like to see Beverley get an opportunity to start. DLO's more suited for a sixth man role anyways.

Patrick Beverley's arrogant and yet even he wouldn't say he's a better shooter than D'Angelo Russell right now. My goodness. I know what the percentages say, but when one player is shooting the majority of his threes off the dribble and the other is purely a catch-and-shoot guy, there's just no comparison.

The numbers say Beverly is the better three point shooter, he's a career 38.2% shooter. DLO is a 36.0% on three point shooting. I don't know why you resort to making up crap to defend your boy DLO.

Like I said, I know what the percentages are. Perhaps if we wear blinders and ignore everything those numbers encapsulate, then Patrick Beverley is the superior perimeter shooter. But if we include the context that is missing from those numbers we know that D'Angelo Russell is creating a lot of his outside shots whereas Beverley is simply spotting up and waiting to catch and shoot. The level of difficulty is not comparable.

Additionally, because Russell is leaned upon for his scoring, he takes (and makes) more threes than Beverley. If we were to compare what kind of threes the two are taking we might be able to add some understanding here.

Pull-Up Threes:
Russell: 56-149 (37.6%)
Beverley: 10-27 (37.0%)

Catch-And-Shoot Threes:
Russell: 59-151 (39.1%)
Beverley: 46-111 (41.4%)

The reality is that players who are tasked with hoisting more shots have a more difficult job. And if one player is producing a comparable shot-making percentage while taking and making significantly more in volume, then I'm rolling with that guy.

Would you rather have the shooter that made 120 out of their 310 attempts last season? Or the shooter that made 56 out of their 141 attempts? Volume and shot difficulty cannot be underestimated.

[ALLDAYCHRIS [enjin:19712952]]

I'm not taking any

We shall see soon enough. I think Beasley's too talented and Finch will see that

The best 6s are very talented. That's the whole point. They bring the scoring punch off the bench that is badly needed. It's almost guaranteed he'll be the 6th man barring an injury before the start of the seasonIt's almost guaranteed he'll be the 6th man barring an injury before the start of the season and he's going to be a damn good one.

I would say its far from guaranteed that he will come off the bench this season. He started 36 out of 37 games last year. The Timberwolves don't currently have 5 better options.

Also FYI I have no problem with him being a 6th man and think he would be great at it.

The Wolves will need to start their best five-man unit, which might not necessarily be their five best individual players. Malik Beasley is one of their five best players, in my opinion, but his weaknesses do not jive well with the team's two stars and their ultra-talented number one overall pick. It's mainly for this reason that he was shopped around the league in search of an upgrade at another position.

IN MY OPINION Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, and whatever power forward Minnesota brings in -- Jarred Vanderbilt included -- will likely be the three starters around D'Angelo Russell and Karl-Anthony Towns. I think this actually works really well for Beasley because he will be looked at for instant offense off the bench in a prioritized role. He'll be the de facto first option of the second unit. Get buckets or die trying. I could see him winning the Sixth Man of the Year award in all honesty. He just needs to buy in.

There I fixed it for you CAM :P

I think the starting 5 will be D-LO, Beasley. Edwards, Mcdaniels, KAT

With Finch as our coach, I would be willing to bet serious money that isn't our starting lineup. You haven't been paying attention to what he's been saying during interviews ("we need to get bigger"; "I like Jaden more as a 3 than a 4", etc.)

I've been paying attention plenty thanks. I still think Beasley starts.

[Wolvesfan21]

I just saw this news. Yes, yes yes!!!

Rosas is a hero!

LOL, who would have thought that would be something we thought?

[Wolvesfan21]

I think Beverly will start and Beasley will be the scoring punch off the bench. I guess the question is, who is the better ball handler and facilitator between the two? Sure you can always stagger minutes to keep DLO or Ant in the game at all times as well. But between Bev and Bease IDK. Bev is a better player then Bease, simply because he is so much better on defense. So I think I have to start him.

I need some toughness and defense in my starting 5. Bease plays tough but is simply not at Bevs level when it comes to defensive skill.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I think Beverly will start and Beasley will be the scoring punch off the bench. I guess the question is, who is the better ball handler and facilitator between the two? Sure you can always stagger minutes to keep DLO or Ant in the game at all times as well. But between Bev and Bease IDK. Bev is a better player then Bease, simply because he is so much better on defense. So I think I have to start him.

I need some toughness and defense in my starting 5. Bease plays tough but is simply not at Bevs level when it comes to defensive skill.

Both Beverley and Beasley will likely be reserves next season. That backcourt duo off the bench will be very valuable and either or both of them could be in certain late game lineups. This was a trade to bolster the second unit. I hope we don't make it into more than what it is.

[Monster]

Beverley has had a better career than DLO. He's a better three point shooter, he has a better Assist/Turnover rate and Beverley is a top defender and DLO is the opposite. Not surprisingly, Beverley's net rating have been very good and DLO's have been pretty bad. Unless he's washed, I would like to see Beverley get an opportunity to start. DLO's more suited for a sixth man role anyways.

Patrick Beverley's arrogant and yet even he wouldn't say he's a better shooter than D'Angelo Russell right now. My goodness. I know what the percentages say, but when one player is shooting the majority of his threes off the dribble and the other is purely a catch-and-shoot guy, there's just no comparison.

The numbers say Beverly is the better three point shooter, he's a career 38.2% shooter. DLO is a 36.0% on three point shooting. I don't know why you resort to making up crap to defend your boy DLO.

Like I said, I know what the percentages are. Perhaps if we wear blinders and ignore everything those numbers encapsulate, then Patrick Beverley is the superior perimeter shooter. But if we include the context that is missing from those numbers we know that D'Angelo Russell is creating a lot of his outside shots whereas Beverley is simply spotting up and waiting to catch and shoot. The level of difficulty is not comparable.

Additionally, because Russell is leaned upon for his scoring, he takes (and makes) more threes than Beverley. If we were to compare what kind of threes the two are taking we might be able to add some understanding here.

Pull-Up Threes:
Russell: 56-149 (37.6%)
Beverley: 10-27 (37.0%)

Catch-And-Shoot Threes:
Russell: 59-151 (39.1%)
Beverley: 46-111 (41.4%)

The reality is that players who are tasked with hoisting more shots have a more difficult job. And if one player is producing a comparable shot-making percentage while taking and making significantly more in volume, then I'm rolling with that guy.

Would you rather have the shooter that made 120 out of their 310 attempts last season? Or the shooter that made 56 out of their 141 attempts? Volume and shot difficulty cannot be underestimated.

Another big factor is where these guys are taking their 3's. Russell has taken fewer than 10% of his 3's from the corners for his career. Beverly has taken 34% of his 3's from there. That's a pretty big difference.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Beverley has had a better career than DLO. He's a better three point shooter, he has a better Assist/Turnover rate and Beverley is a top defender and DLO is the opposite. Not surprisingly, Beverley's net rating have been very good and DLO's have been pretty bad. Unless he's washed, I would like to see Beverley get an opportunity to start. DLO's more suited for a sixth man role anyways.

Patrick Beverley's arrogant and yet even he wouldn't say he's a better shooter than D'Angelo Russell right now. My goodness. I know what the percentages say, but when one player is shooting the majority of his threes off the dribble and the other is purely a catch-and-shoot guy, there's just no comparison.

The numbers say Beverly is the better three point shooter, he's a career 38.2% shooter. DLO is a 36.0% on three point shooting. I don't know why you resort to making up crap to defend your boy DLO.

Like I said, I know what the percentages are. Perhaps if we wear blinders and ignore everything those numbers encapsulate, then Patrick Beverley is the superior perimeter shooter. But if we include the context that is missing from those numbers we know that D'Angelo Russell is creating a lot of his outside shots whereas Beverley is simply spotting up and waiting to catch and shoot. The level of difficulty is not comparable.

Additionally, because Russell is leaned upon for his scoring, he takes (and makes) more threes than Beverley. If we were to compare what kind of threes the two are taking we might be able to add some understanding here.

Pull-Up Threes:
Russell: 56-149 (37.6%)
Beverley: 10-27 (37.0%)

Catch-And-Shoot Threes:
Russell: 59-151 (39.1%)
Beverley: 46-111 (41.4%)

The reality is that players who are tasked with hoisting more shots have a more difficult job. And if one player is producing a comparable shot-making percentage while taking and making significantly more in volume, then I'm rolling with that guy.

Would you rather have the shooter that made 120 out of their 310 attempts last season? Or the shooter that made 56 out of their 141 attempts? Volume and shot difficulty cannot be underestimated.

Another big factor is where these guys are taking their 3's. Russell has taken fewer than 10% of his 3's from the corners for his career. Beverly has taken 34% of his 3's from there. That's a pretty big difference.

Context is key. Good addition here, monster. That's also notable because D'Angelo Russell is shooting 43.3-percent for his career from the corners. In comparison, Patrick Beverley is a 39.4-percent shooter from the corners for his career. Both of which are very good numbers!

The real takeaway from this trade should be, "Holy shit, the Wolves just acquired a great defender and spot-up shooter for peanuts!" But here we are talking about the acquisition in comparison to D'Angelo Russell. The same thing happened last year when Ricky Rubio was traded for. This is lunacy and an abandonment of reality. Gersson Rosas has been unequivocally clear about Russell being a key cog in Minnesota. Chris Finch has only reiterated as much. The guy is going to start, and rightfully so.

[FNG]

Beverley has had a better career than DLO. He's a better three point shooter, he has a better Assist/Turnover rate and Beverley is a top defender and DLO is the opposite. Not surprisingly, Beverley's net rating have been very good and DLO's have been pretty bad. Unless he's washed, I would like to see Beverley get an opportunity to start. DLO's more suited for a sixth man role anyways.

Patrick Beverley's arrogant and yet even he wouldn't say he's a better shooter than D'Angelo Russell right now. My goodness. I know what the percentages say, but when one player is shooting the majority of his threes off the dribble and the other is purely a catch-and-shoot guy, there's just no comparison.

The numbers say Beverly is the better three point shooter, he's a career 38.2% shooter. DLO is a 36.0% on three point shooting. I don't know why you resort to making up crap to defend your boy DLO.

You and FNG should hang out more. We've been through this multiple times before on DLO's alleged mediocre shooting. As Cam said, he's a higher usage player that creates a lot more shots for himself and others. Beverley's role has largely been to play off of others and be the recipient of open catch-and-shoot looks. Big difference.

Now, if you want to argue that DLO should be in a lower usage role going forward, fine. But that doesn't mean he's the inferior shooter. I can guarantee you opposing defenses are much more worried about DLO getting open looks than PBev (although PBev has been pretty good on that front).

Now if you want to talk about defense and toughness, you probably couldn't come up with two players more different than each other.

Ha, I would never suggest Beverley is a better shooter than DLO...shooting isn't how he's made a career out of making winning teams better. DLO is a unique talent in his ability to create his own shot and score. He's also a more creative and productive facilitator. And we all know he will start at PG this season. But KG and WF's suggestion that Beverley should (not will) start at PG is far from an absurd concept.

1) DLO is the superior offensive player, Beverley is the superior defensive player. On which end of the court is the chasm larger, and does this team need defense or offense more? I would say there's a bigger difference between the two in defense than offense (although both are large), and that tough defense is what this team needs most.
2) Beverley ranked 7th in PG DRPM, DLO ranked 57th.
3) To Q's point above, Beverley is a consistent positive on/off player, while DLO is not.
4) While DLO is a special shooting talent, he is a less efficient scorer than Beverley. Beverley's career TS% is 54.7% (58% last year), DLO's is 52.9% (55.5% last year).
5) While DLO is a more productive facilitator, Beverley protects the ball better and has a far superior A:TO ratio. Beverley averages an outstanding 1.7 TOs per 36, DLO averages 3.6.
6) Beverley started all but 4 games in which he was healthy the past two games for the Clippers, a team that won more than twice as many games last season as our beloved Wolves. A discussion about whether a guy good enough to start at PG for a 47-win team might also start for a 23-win team seems appropriate.

Again, DLO will start...he's one of our max players, and max players rarely come off the bench. But I think a discussion about which PG gives the Wolves a better chance to win is a fair topic for this board.