crazysauce wrote:Yeah I disagree. I don't think defense and effort should ever be optional.
I agree that it shouldn't be optional, especially for guys getting paid millions, but it's not realistic to expect great effort/energy every night for most. And good energy isn't enough at the pro level.
My best comparison is this. Have you ever gone to the gym and felt sluggish? Like you end up getting through the workout, but you know it wasn't a great workout? Either your body wasn't feeling right or you were mentally off? It happens to the best of us. That's what happens sometimes in the NBA. Minnesota came out flat tonight and New Orleans has been the hungrier team so far.
That is only an acceptable excuse for a winning franchise.
I only watched the final 6 minutes... so I can't speak to "effort" earlier in the game.
But there have been many discussions about recent versions of Wolves teams taking off games after even the slightest moments of success. Time and time again.
Heck, you could take Towns' quote after last night's game and Mad Lib it into other games from earlier this season or last season or the previous season or... you get the point. It's always the same thing.
This is not a normal organization. This is the worst franchise in NBA history with a checkered past of inexplicable half-ass efforts. If that's what happened yet again yesterday... shame on the Wolves (not that they care).
But it's just another indicator that the team has to prove it's going to be different THIS time. Eventually.
I watched the whole game. I don't think the effort was THAT bad or that there was this massive letdown. We were on the road against a team that is actually playing some halfway decent ball. They made their last nine 3s as Kek mentioned above! Sometimes the other team just gets hot.
crazysauce wrote:Yeah I disagree. I don't think defense and effort should ever be optional.
I agree that it shouldn't be optional, especially for guys getting paid millions, but it's not realistic to expect great effort/energy every night for most. And good energy isn't enough at the pro level.
My best comparison is this. Have you ever gone to the gym and felt sluggish? Like you end up getting through the workout, but you know it wasn't a great workout? Either your body wasn't feeling right or you were mentally off? It happens to the best of us. That's what happens sometimes in the NBA. Minnesota came out flat tonight and New Orleans has been the hungrier team so far.
That is only an acceptable excuse for a winning franchise.
I only watched the final 6 minutes... so I can't speak to "effort" earlier in the game.
But there have been many discussions about recent versions of Wolves teams taking off games after even the slightest moments of success. Time and time again.
Heck, you could take Towns' quote after last night's game and Mad Lib it into other games from earlier this season or last season or the previous season or... you get the point. It's always the same thing.
This is not a normal organization. This is the worst franchise in NBA history with a checkered past of inexplicable half-ass efforts. If that's what happened yet again yesterday... shame on the Wolves (not that they care).
But it's just another indicator that the team has to prove it's going to be different THIS time. Eventually.
I watched the whole game. I don't think the effort was THAT bad or that there was this massive letdown. We were on the road against a team that is actually playing some halfway decent ball. They made their last nine 3s as Kek mentioned above! Sometimes the other team just gets hot.
Yeah. I picked a good time to start watching for entertainment purposes. I didn't see too many misses in those final 5 minutes.*
* Unless you count Edwards missing a wide open Towns on multiple occasions... But that's the rub with Edwards. He is extremely gifted and he was hot, too. So he drove and got fouled. Or, he shot and hit it. But does it even out over the long haul? Will it in the future? It has to be the most glaring weakness in his game right now. The ball is just too sticky.
crazysauce wrote:Yeah I disagree. I don't think defense and effort should ever be optional.
I agree that it shouldn't be optional, especially for guys getting paid millions, but it's not realistic to expect great effort/energy every night for most. And good energy isn't enough at the pro level.
My best comparison is this. Have you ever gone to the gym and felt sluggish? Like you end up getting through the workout, but you know it wasn't a great workout? Either your body wasn't feeling right or you were mentally off? It happens to the best of us. That's what happens sometimes in the NBA. Minnesota came out flat tonight and New Orleans has been the hungrier team so far.
That is only an acceptable excuse for a winning franchise.
I only watched the final 6 minutes... so I can't speak to "effort" earlier in the game.
But there have been many discussions about recent versions of Wolves teams taking off games after even the slightest moments of success. Time and time again.
Heck, you could take Towns' quote after last night's game and Mad Lib it into other games from earlier this season or last season or the previous season or... you get the point. It's always the same thing.
This is not a normal organization. This is the worst franchise in NBA history with a checkered past of inexplicable half-ass efforts. If that's what happened yet again yesterday... shame on the Wolves (not that they care).
But it's just another indicator that the team has to prove it's going to be different THIS time. Eventually.
I watched the whole game. I don't think the effort was THAT bad or that there was this massive letdown. We were on the road against a team that is actually playing some halfway decent ball. They made their last nine 3s as Kek mentioned above! Sometimes the other team just gets hot.
Yeah. I picked a good time to start watching for entertainment purposes. I didn't see too many misses in those final 5 minutes.*
* Unless you count Edwards missing a wide open Towns on multiple occasions... But that's the rub with Edwards. He is extremely gifted and he was hot, too. So he drove and got fouled. Or, he shot and hit it. But does it even out over the long haul? Will it in the future? It has to be the most glaring weakness in his game right now. The ball is just too sticky.
Yeah, it's a real tradeoff with him. Like I said earlier in the thread, you've got to give someone like that a bit of rope. He isn't going to turn into a maestro floor general that makes the perfectly timed pass AND be a devastating one-on-one matchup nightmare all in one package at his age and experience level. He didn't come here with a Doncic level pedigree and IQ, but more just raw athleticism and the ability to pick up things quickly.
The thing that shocks me is how he's turned into a prolific 3-point shooter. He's no longer just a pure volume chucker that every once in a while reels off a bunch of makes, but levels off at 30 or 33%. No, he's now a top 10-15 shooter in terms of volume and accuracy (37% now). That's only going to open up more opportunities for his dribble drive game. And that's where the real fun begins, because now he's going to get better at finding guys for wide open dunks or corner 3s.
I had this feeling that as soon as they got to .500 they would screw up and not be able to get over the hump. Like .500 is the ceiling they can't break through.
A very entertaining game, and there's no shame in taking the Pels down to the wire on their court. NO is a good team even without Zion...playing .500 basketball for several weeks now...and they would be a very good basketball team if Zion could ever stay healthy. I really wanted this one, because I think the Pels are going to be one of our main competitors for a play-in spot. I know we're 5 games up on them right now, but that gap might close a little by the end of the month (although their schedule isn't exactly easy either).
I don't agree with the narrative that we didn't play hard. Instead, I think tonight showed how much we need a healthy PatBev. It was clear from the start that he was not moving like he usually does, and the ripple effect on our defense was obvious...way too many open looks from the corners. An already difficult slate of upcoming games becomes downright impossible if PatBev is still struggling with his groin. If I'm Finch, I'm watching him closely today in practice. And if he's not 100%, I sit him down against Memphis tomorrow and maybe even GS Saturday. We need to win the "possible" games during this stretch, and the next two are in NY and Atlanta. Memphis is the hottest team in basketball right now, and we may be double digit dogs tomorrow. Give Beverley the night off.
But even with PatBev at half speed, we win this one if 33% 3-point shooter Ingram doesn't go 6 for 7 beyond the arc including the game winner from somewhere near Baton Rouge. And while other Pels had too many open looks, I thought BI just beat some good defense tonight. JO was on him on the last shot, and if you watch the replay you hear Jim Peterson say "good job by Josh Okogie" right before the shot. I think he was referring to the quick move to double JoVal when he got the pass with BI a full ten feet beyond the arc! It was the right move, and BI just made a shot I think he might miss 85% of the time. Tough break.
Fun to see a real basketball game after...what did PatBev call them?...four "trick" games.
FNG wrote:JO was on him on the last shot, and if you watch the replay you hear Jim Peterson say "good job by Josh Okogie" right before the shot. I think he was referring to the quick move to double JoVal when he got the pass with BI a full ten feet beyond the arc! It was the right move, and BI just made a shot I think he might miss 85% of the time. Tough break.
Josh Okogie left Brandon Ingram open to stunt at Jonas Valanciunas with his back to the basket from approximately 20-feet when he didn't need to nor was it his responsibility as the help man. He turned himself around and got out of position allowing Ingram to walk into a good look, especially for a guy who was 5-6 from three prior to that attempt. Also, Ingram was not a "full ten-feet beyond the arc" as you say he was. Ingram canned the jumper from 26-feet. The three-point line extends to 23.75-feet. It's a very makable shot in today's NBA and Okogie's one job there is to play sticky man defense on Ingram. He absolutely failed.
Yes, you have to tip the cap to Ingram for making the shot, but stating that Okogie played good defense on that possession is a terrible take.
That's what makes basketball such a fun game to analyze, Cam...some will side with your take that JO's defense was inappropriate allowing a 33% shooter (albeit red hot last night) to take a shot 10 feet beyond the arc, and some will side with Jim Pete and me. I just watched the replay again (Jon K has it on his twitter feed) and even with the "show" on JoVal, BI's shot was far from uncontested...JO's hand was right in his face! Tough loss, but I'm not going to fault JO on this one.
FNG wrote:That's what makes basketball such a fun game to analyze, Cam...some will side with your take that JO's defense was inappropriate allowing a 33% shooter (albeit red hot last night) to take a shot 10 feet beyond the arc, and some will side with Jim Pete and me. I just watched the replay again (Jon K has it on his twitter feed) and even with the "show" on JoVal, BI's shot was far from uncontested...JO's hand was right in his face! Tough loss, but I'm not going to fault JO on this one.
Jim Petersen is broadcasting from Minneapolis where there's a slight audio delay, as you can tell by the replay. I'm almost certain that when he says "nice job by Josh Okogie" he's referring to Okogie getting through the initial screen from Jonas Valanciunas and denying the inbound to go to Brandon Ingram, which is likely how the Pelicans' final play was drawn up. That's good defense, absolutely. Unfortunately, Okogie gets himself out of position immediately after, as I mentioned before, and allows a very open three-point shot to a hot shooter at the time. It's inexplicable that Okogie should allow that much space when his assignment is to not let Ingram beat us. Okogie didn't lose the game for Minnesota, but he absolutely shit the bed on the final possession.
We've also already established that the shot was from 26-feet -- not 10-feet beyond the arc. It's well within range for most adequate shooters in the league. I apologize for dying on this hill, but come on, man. Stop it.
We've also already established that the shot was from 26-feet -- not 10-feet beyond the arc. It's well within range for most adequate shooters in the league. I apologize for dying on this hill, but come on, man. Stop it.
Have we though?
No dog in this fight... but if we're going to act all indignant and authoritative on a topic... at least maybe try to be more accurate or leave SOME interpretation for others.
No dog in this fight... but if we're going to act all indignant and authoritative on a topic... at least maybe try to be more accurate or leave SOME interpretation for others.
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/33046671
Right is right, whether you find it to be indignant and/or authoritative is besides the point. It sure as hell wasn't a full 10-feet beyond the three-point line, which was said to make the shot appear less favorable than it was.
