lipoli390 wrote:I think Rosas clearly had Edwards at the top of his draft board well ahead of any of the other prospects. I don't think he was particularly serious about entertaining offers for the pick on draft day. I'm sure they took calls, but I think by that point Rosas was just waiting for the proverbial offer he couldn't refuse and fully intended to draft Edwards unless he unexpectedly receive that sort of offer.
My sense is that Rosas hits a point where he falls in love with a player and then fixates on getting that player and keeping him. We saw it with DLO when Rosas went all out trying to recruit him as a free agent and eventually traded for him. We saw it again recently when gave very generous contracts to Beasley and Juancho without any reports of significant interest in either one around the League. Those were "his" guys he traded for last February and in my view he was determined to keep them.
I think Rosas fell in love with Edwards at some point in the process. It might have been at the private workout when Edwards rebuffed his trainer's directive in favor of taking more threes, attributing his decision to because that's what the Wolves "system." When I saw Rosas rave about that moment, I was actually embarrassed for him. It's the sort of thing David Kahn might have said, but I'm not sure even he would have said it. I just don't think Rosas is the sharpest knife in the drawer. As a result, I don't think he makes smart judgments on the big things. I do think he has a higher quality of scouts and basketball people around him, which I would point to as the reason his regime has done better at identifying young undrafted talent like Naz Reid, JMac and even K. Martin. But on the big decisions like first round picks and major trades, where Rosas calls the shots, the track record of the Rosas regime is a bit suspect.
If Edwards, McDaniels or Culver develops into a star in the next couple years, then that will be enough to quell my doubts.
So Lip you don't believe Jon K's reporting that the Knicks were going to make Beasley an offer?
lipoli390 wrote:I think Rosas clearly had Edwards at the top of his draft board well ahead of any of the other prospects. I don't think he was particularly serious about entertaining offers for the pick on draft day. I'm sure they took calls, but I think by that point Rosas was just waiting for the proverbial offer he couldn't refuse and fully intended to draft Edwards unless he unexpectedly receive that sort of offer.
My sense is that Rosas hits a point where he falls in love with a player and then fixates on getting that player and keeping him. We saw it with DLO when Rosas went all out trying to recruit him as a free agent and eventually traded for him. We saw it again recently when gave very generous contracts to Beasley and Juancho without any reports of significant interest in either one around the League. Those were "his" guys he traded for last February and in my view he was determined to keep them.
I think Rosas fell in love with Edwards at some point in the process. It might have been at the private workout when Edwards rebuffed his trainer's directive in favor of taking more threes, attributing his decision to because that's what the Wolves "system." When I saw Rosas rave about that moment, I was actually embarrassed for him. It's the sort of thing David Kahn might have said, but I'm not sure even he would have said it. I just don't think Rosas is the sharpest knife in the drawer. As a result, I don't think he makes smart judgments on the big things. I do think he has a higher quality of scouts and basketball people around him, which I would point to as the reason his regime has done better at identifying young undrafted talent like Naz Reid, JMac and even K. Martin. But on the big decisions like first round picks and major trades, where Rosas calls the shots, the track record of the Rosas regime is a bit suspect.
If Edwards, McDaniels or Culver develops into a star in the next couple years, then that will be enough to quell my doubts.
So Lip you don't believe Jon K's reporting that the Knicks were going to make Beasley an offer?
We'll never know. And we certainly don't know what that offer would have been. My main point, however, is that Rosas fixates on certain players he wants and makes sure he gets them. That's not necessarily a bad thing if his judgment about those players is good and that's remains to be seen.
I'm actually not down on the Beasley signing. I like what Beasley brings to the team and I think his contract is within the market range this off-season for a player of his caliber and youth, albeit at the higher end of the range. Rosas made sure he got his guy and he wasn't willing the risk the possibility of an offer from another team. That might turn out to be a good decision.
My issue with Rosas is really with the contract he gave Juancho. That move made no sense to me given what Juancho provides, what the Wolves need and the other free-agent options.
Lamelo's shot mechanics are even uglier than his brother. Good for him if he can get them to go in. I dont know how many 3s he's going to be able to get off if it takes him an hour to wind up for them.
WolvesFan21 wrote:The thing is too which I posted before the draft. A GM is really putting his job on the line if he trades up to number 1. If that player busts or is simply mediocre then he's gone. It's too much risk and I felt that it wasn't going to happen. Versus staying put, make a lower pick. No one is calling for the GM's head if he whiffs on a 10th overall pick.
You say this but then you expected Thibs to trade an all nba player plus other draft capital for the #3 pick..... mmmmm.... interesting
Thibs was gone if he didn't make a move with Butler EARLIER. I knew Butler wanted out, how could Thibs not know about the state of his own team? Wether he could have gotten a top 3 pick or not for Butler he had to trade him pre draft. I posted it on here so it's not hindsight is 20/20.
The truth is we will never know what Butler would have brung predraft. Guys like Cam say no one wanted Butler.
khans2k5 wrote:Rosas took the guy he wanted. That's it. Edwards was his top prospect in a tier above guys like Melo and the rest. If he thought there were other guys in the same tier as Edwards he would have traded down but he had Edwards a tier above all those guys. He traded up last year with Garland and Culver as the last 2 guys in his best tier available still on the board and ended up with Culver even though he wanted Garland. We know he makes moves if he can still get a player in the same tier and that wasn't available this year. That's what you do with the number 1 pick. We can debate whether or not his tiers are wrong, but he's been consistent with how he deals around his draft values for 2 years now.
Shopping the pick until the very moment Minnesota makes their selection doesn't give me any indication that they actually felt too strongly about Anthony Edwards, but I know what the narrative is and how they claim Edwards to be in a tier by himself. I find that nonsensical, though.
If they didn't feel strongly about him then why are you making all this fuss about him for sure being available at 3 in a trade down? They just would have traded down if they didn't like anyone at the top and could have picked up an extra asset in the process. The number 3 pick and any other player is an instant trade that's made if you don't like Edwards that much and you don't want to take Wiseman. Your logic doesn't add up on this one.
Your question doesn't make any sense. Also, you're assuming that Minnesota's front office is competent and capable enough to maneuver on draft night and make the correct decisions. Maybe they just aren't and that's the issue that I'm pointing out.
So far, I haven't seen anything that would give me that much confidence in them from the trade up to No. 6 in 2019 to how they handled No. 1 this year, how they dealt No. 17 for Ricky Rubio despite more valuable players being traded for later picks, and then the curious trade back up to 23 for a draft stash. Collectively, these moves are questionable at best. Don't be so confident in this front office.
Read my responses above to FNG on why I'm sure Anthony Edwards would have been available at three. I'm not going to spell it out for you too when it's right here in the thread.
It's conceivable and perhaps even likely that Minnesota worked the phones down to the wire trying to trade the pick for an All-Star player and were denied, and then simply took the high-ceiling prospect that didn't cause waves with their two most-established players on the roster.
You do realize in the same post you mention that you don't believe the front office is competent or capable at trading in the draft while also citing all the draft day trades they've made the last two years? Seems to me they are perfectly capable at executing trades in the draft when they find trades they want to make. He didn't find a trade he wanted to make that outweighed drafting Edwards. If he didn't view Edwards that highly there were known trade partners on the table that he just would have traded with to get that extra value. I'm not on Rosas' side with his trades but it's pretty clear the guy makes moves when he gets the value he's looking for and thus taking Edwards at 1 shows how highly he thought of Edwards over the other potential trades out there. You're the one who said they didn't feel strongly about Edwards because they were shopping the pick until the draft timer ran out and yet the GM who has wheeled and dealed everywhere else in the draft took the player rather than a deal which shows he valued Edwards pretty highly. Not as much as a snap pick but in a year with no prospect worthy of a snap pick the prudent thing to do is see if someone else blows you away with an offer and if not take your guy.
I thought Edwards has shown some real flashes the last couple games, including on the defensive end. He's obviously not been efficient as a shooter, but we've seen him D up Luka really well for a few possessions, make some nice passes, and hit some tough shots. The thing that stands out for me is his physicality. He has the body of a man 5 years older. And when he's locked in and defending, he has some real shut-down ability there for multiple positions. It obviously remains to be seen whether he can do that consistently, but for a guy his age, that's nice to see. It'll make it easier to let him play through inefficient offensive stretches, because at least he looks like he can actually defend a bit.
I also thought Vanderbilt and McDaniels looked ok in that last game too.
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I thought Edwards has shown some real flashes the last couple games, including on the defensive end. He's obviously not been efficient as a shooter, but we've seen him D up Luka really well for a few possessions, make some nice passes, and hit some tough shots. The thing that stands out for me is his physicality. He has the body of a man 5 years older. And when he's locked in and defending, he has some real shut-down ability there for multiple positions. It obviously remains to be seen whether he can do that consistently, but for a guy his age, that's nice to see. It'll make it easier to let him play through inefficient offensive stretches, because at least he looks like he can actually defend a bit.
I also thought Vanderbilt and McDaniels looked ok in that last game too.
Vanderbilt and McDaniels made some big defensive plays against the Mavs. McDaniels needs to add 40lbs though before I see him being a contributor in the NBA. He's an absolute twig. If they stick around long-term they could make an interesting duo off the bench. I'd much rather see them getting minutes over Hernangomez.
bleedspeed177 wrote:So what is Edwards ceiling and floor? Can he be as good as LaVine?
His ceiling is pretty much what he wants it to be. At his size he can be an All-NBA player if he develops the appropriate basketball skills and consistency. He showed some good vision and passing against the Mavs. When he's locked in on defense he can be a handful. If he attacks the basket and takes smart shots he can be a high level scorer. I'd say his floor is probably a worse Demar Derozen who's at least willing to jack up 3's. I fully expect him to surpass Zach as a player in terms of the impact he has on the floor.
