Minnesota Sports Forum

Q says above that Russell has the shooting chops to play off the ball. But how are we defining "shooting chops"? If we're defining it as the ability to take a lot of shots, then I agree (although I don't necessarily agree that shot volume alone is a strength). To me shooting chops has to include scoring at an efficient rate...otherwise you're creating a situation where you have too many empty trips down the court. And we all know DLO has not proven to be an efficient scorer in his 6 years. His career 36% 3-point shooting rate ranks below the average rate for all positions except center (centers make 34.2 % of their threes, but all other positions shoot at a higher average rate than Russell). And Russell stacks up even worse when we compare him to NBA averages in effective shooting percentage. Russell's career 50 eFG% ranks below the league average for all five positions. Simmons on the other hand scores at a far above league average 56 eFG%.

So if we want a guy who can take a lot of shots, DLO is a better choice than Simmons on the offensive end...he takes 3 more shots a game than Simmons. But Simmons' ability to convert at a much higher percentage (in addition to being a far better facilitator and offensive rebounder) makes him a more valuable offensive player. And of course we know how much more valuable Simmons is on defense.

I guess I'm surprised at those who are concerned about losing a one-trick felon like Beasley who pointed a rifle at a house-hunting family at about the same time he was dating Scottie Pippen's 47-year-old ex-wife...even though he was still legally married at the time! I wonder if Malik is improving his shooting on the metal nets in the Wright County jail that has been his home since June 1. And let's hope the Wright County medical staff is helping Malik with his constant injuries, because let's not forget he has only averaged 51 games per year in his 5-year career. I'm open to the wisdom of including McDaniels in a deal to bring back an all-NBA PG (I still think it's an easy decision, even though I'm intrigued by Jaden's potential, but I think we would be lucky to unload a oft-injured, no-defense loose cannon tying up $15 million of our cap space.

FNG, We've been through this before when it comes to shooting efficiency. The reason DLO's efficiency on 3s is lower than average is because he often takes high-degree-of-difficulty attempts as the lead ball-handler and primary scorer for most of the squads he's been on. Guess who else has a career 36% 3-pt rate? James Harden.

No defense in their right mind is going to lay off DLO on the perimeter because of his career 36% 3-pt shooting rate. They damn well know that, like Harden, if his feet are set and is left open, he is a deadly 3-pt shooter.

In fact, I think the key to unlocking better overall efficiency from DLO is to play him off the ball more. Edwards and KAT should attract enough attention and double-teams to get DLO more open looks so that he doesn't feel like he has to manufacture as many highly difficult attempts.

BTW, my original point on DLO was in support of how he could actually play with Simmons successfully in the event Rosas pulled a rabbit out of his hat and was able to get Simmons here via a 3-team deal.

FNG wrote:Q says above that Russell has the shooting chops to play off the ball. But how are we defining "shooting chops"? If we're defining it as the ability to take a lot of shots, then I agree (although I don't necessarily agree that shot volume alone is a strength). To me shooting chops has to include scoring at an efficient rate...otherwise you're creating a situation where you have too many empty trips down the court. And we all know DLO has not proven to be an efficient scorer in his 6 years. His career 36% 3-point shooting rate ranks below the average rate for all positions except center (centers make 34.2 % of their threes, but all other positions shoot at a higher average rate than Russell). And Russell stacks up even worse when we compare him to NBA averages in effective shooting percentage. Russell's career 50 eFG% ranks below the league average for all five positions. Simmons on the other hand scores at a far above league average 56 eFG%.

So if we want a guy who can take a lot of shots, DLO is a better choice than Simmons on the offensive end...he takes 3 more shots a game than Simmons. But Simmons' ability to convert at a much higher percentage (in addition to being a far better facilitator and offensive rebounder) makes him a more valuable offensive player. And of course we know how much more valuable Simmons is on defense.

I guess I'm surprised at those who are concerned about losing a one-trick felon like Beasley who pointed a rifle at a house-hunting family at about the same time he was dating Scottie Pippen's 47-year-old ex-wife...even though he was still legally married at the time! I wonder if Malik is improving his shooting on the metal nets in the Wright County jail that has been his home since June 1. And let's hope the Wright County medical staff is helping Malik with his constant injuries, because let's not forget he has only averaged 51 games per year in his 5-year career. I'm open to the wisdom of including McDaniels in a deal to bring back an all-NBA PG (I still think it's an easy decision, even though I'm intrigued by Jaden's potential, but I think we would be lucky to unload a oft-injured, no-defense loose cannon tying up $15 million of our cap space.

I'm confused at your love of efficiency but you don't use true shooting percentage instead of EFG%.

I'm certainly willing to deal Beasley but he is a legit asset right now for the Wolves so I want value for him in a deal. His injury history is a concern. So is Russell and for that matter Simmons too.

Q12543 wrote:FNG, We've been through this before when it comes to shooting efficiency. The reason DLO's efficiency on 3s is lower than average is because he often takes high-degree-of-difficulty attempts as the lead ball-handler and primary scorer for most of the squads he's been on. Guess who else has a career 36% 3-pt rate? James Harden.

No defense in their right mind is going to lay off DLO on the perimeter because of his career 36% 3-pt shooting rate. They damn well know that, like Harden, if his feet are set and is left open, he is a deadly 3-pt shooter.

In fact, I think the key to unlocking better overall efficiency from DLO is to play him off the ball more. Edwards and KAT should attract enough attention and double-teams to get DLO more open looks so that he doesn't feel like he has to manufacture as many highly difficult attempts.

BTW, my original point on DLO was in support of how he could actually play with Simmons successfully in the event Rosas pulled a rabbit out of his hat and was able to get Simmons here via a 3-team deal.

I agree that Simmons would definitely help DLO get more efficient...he's such a terrific facilitator, he makes everyone he plays with more efficient. But you're right... it would be a rabbit-out-of-the hat-deal for Rosas to pull off. And actually I'd be quite concerned about roster construction with three max players, especially when one is Russell.

I need a much better comp than Harden, because I agree that he is only an average 3-point shooter (albeit better than DLO for his career). But an efficient scorer needs to know his strengths, and Harden knows his strength is drawing fouls and making free throws (as much as his style annoys me). That's why his career TS% is 61% compared to DLO's below average 53%! Simmons also knows his strengths, and that is why he ignores the 3-point shot...and as a result his 58 TS% is better than league average (and far better than Russell). And Simmons runs an offense so efficiently, I'm just not buying the narrative that his inability to "spread the floor" hurts an offense. Even though Simmons was much maligned for his offense during the playoffs, it's quite telling to me that the Sixers scored an incredible 21.3 more points per 100 possessions with Simmons on the court than off...that's unheard of. His ability to find the open man in a place where he can score most efficiently is a vastly-underrated skill, and it shows up in the stats for Ben.

Doesn't matter though, because the Sixers management knows everything I just wrote above (even if the fan base doesn't) and they're not going to bite on a package highlighted by D'Angelo Russell. Rosas is better off focusing on using our meagre available assets for a journeyman center, I'm afraid.

monsterpile wrote:

FNG wrote:Q says above that Russell has the shooting chops to play off the ball. But how are we defining "shooting chops"? If we're defining it as the ability to take a lot of shots, then I agree (although I don't necessarily agree that shot volume alone is a strength). To me shooting chops has to include scoring at an efficient rate...otherwise you're creating a situation where you have too many empty trips down the court. And we all know DLO has not proven to be an efficient scorer in his 6 years. His career 36% 3-point shooting rate ranks below the average rate for all positions except center (centers make 34.2 % of their threes, but all other positions shoot at a higher average rate than Russell). And Russell stacks up even worse when we compare him to NBA averages in effective shooting percentage. Russell's career 50 eFG% ranks below the league average for all five positions. Simmons on the other hand scores at a far above league average 56 eFG%.

So if we want a guy who can take a lot of shots, DLO is a better choice than Simmons on the offensive end...he takes 3 more shots a game than Simmons. But Simmons' ability to convert at a much higher percentage (in addition to being a far better facilitator and offensive rebounder) makes him a more valuable offensive player. And of course we know how much more valuable Simmons is on defense.

I guess I'm surprised at those who are concerned about losing a one-trick felon like Beasley who pointed a rifle at a house-hunting family at about the same time he was dating Scottie Pippen's 47-year-old ex-wife...even though he was still legally married at the time! I wonder if Malik is improving his shooting on the metal nets in the Wright County jail that has been his home since June 1. And let's hope the Wright County medical staff is helping Malik with his constant injuries, because let's not forget he has only averaged 51 games per year in his 5-year career. I'm open to the wisdom of including McDaniels in a deal to bring back an all-NBA PG (I still think it's an easy decision, even though I'm intrigued by Jaden's potential, but I think we would be lucky to unload a oft-injured, no-defense loose cannon tying up $15 million of our cap space.

I'm confused at your love of efficiency but you don't use true shooting percentage instead of EFG%.

I'm certainly willing to deal Beasley but he is a legit asset right now for the Wolves so I want value for him in a deal. His injury history is a concern. So is Russell and for that matter Simmons too.

I agree that TS% is a better efficiency measure, and I just used it in my post above...Simmons is far ahead of DLO and even better than Beasley in TS%, despite his FT woes.

Monster, I think we tend to overvalue our assets here. I believe Malik Beasley is the only active NBA player currently behind bars, and he doesn't get out of jail for at least another month...I don't know if many GM's are willing to take on such a risky guy. And that's not even considering his lack of defense and injury history. Check the games played for Simmons, DLO and Beasley...unfortunately our guys have averaged far fewer games per season than Ben.

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

FNG wrote:Q says above that Russell has the shooting chops to play off the ball. But how are we defining "shooting chops"? If we're defining it as the ability to take a lot of shots, then I agree (although I don't necessarily agree that shot volume alone is a strength). To me shooting chops has to include scoring at an efficient rate...otherwise you're creating a situation where you have too many empty trips down the court. And we all know DLO has not proven to be an efficient scorer in his 6 years. His career 36% 3-point shooting rate ranks below the average rate for all positions except center (centers make 34.2 % of their threes, but all other positions shoot at a higher average rate than Russell). And Russell stacks up even worse when we compare him to NBA averages in effective shooting percentage. Russell's career 50 eFG% ranks below the league average for all five positions. Simmons on the other hand scores at a far above league average 56 eFG%.

So if we want a guy who can take a lot of shots, DLO is a better choice than Simmons on the offensive end...he takes 3 more shots a game than Simmons. But Simmons' ability to convert at a much higher percentage (in addition to being a far better facilitator and offensive rebounder) makes him a more valuable offensive player. And of course we know how much more valuable Simmons is on defense.

I guess I'm surprised at those who are concerned about losing a one-trick felon like Beasley who pointed a rifle at a house-hunting family at about the same time he was dating Scottie Pippen's 47-year-old ex-wife...even though he was still legally married at the time! I wonder if Malik is improving his shooting on the metal nets in the Wright County jail that has been his home since June 1. And let's hope the Wright County medical staff is helping Malik with his constant injuries, because let's not forget he has only averaged 51 games per year in his 5-year career. I'm open to the wisdom of including McDaniels in a deal to bring back an all-NBA PG (I still think it's an easy decision, even though I'm intrigued by Jaden's potential, but I think we would be lucky to unload a oft-injured, no-defense loose cannon tying up $15 million of our cap space.

I'm confused at your love of efficiency but you don't use true shooting percentage instead of EFG%.

I'm certainly willing to deal Beasley but he is a legit asset right now for the Wolves so I want value for him in a deal. His injury history is a concern. So is Russell and for that matter Simmons too.

I agree that TS% is a better efficiency measure, and I just used it in my post above...Simmons is far ahead of DLO and even better than Beasley in TS%, despite his FT woes.

Monster, I think we tend to overvalue our assets here. I believe Malik Beasley is the only active NBA player currently behind bars, and he doesn't get out of jail for at least another month...I don't know if many GM's are willing to take on such a risky guy. And that's not even considering his lack of defense and injury history. Check the games played for Simmons, DLO and Beasley...unfortunately our guys have averaged far fewer games per season than Ben.

There are plenty of guys that have ran into trouble with the law and still are in the league making pretty good money. If it wasn't for that legal issue Beasley might have gotten 20 million a year last summer. Beasley doesn't turn 25 till November so there is still some potential there. Will he reach it or is he just a scorer off the bench? Idk but he has value and his contract is pretty decent plus it has an out in year 4 if a team decides to move on and that non guaranteed deal could have value on its own.

Yep Simmons has been healthier than those guys which is one reason I would actually pull the trigger on the deal but that doesn't erase the fact that Simmons is also an injury risk himself. It makes me have a bit of an appreciation for a guy like Dieng who isnt an amazing player but the guy missed basically just a handful of games over the years once he became a rotation player. Let's hope Towns last couple seasons were some bad luck and he gets back to being a really durable guy.

monsterpile wrote:

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

FNG wrote:Q says above that Russell has the shooting chops to play off the ball. But how are we defining "shooting chops"? If we're defining it as the ability to take a lot of shots, then I agree (although I don't necessarily agree that shot volume alone is a strength). To me shooting chops has to include scoring at an efficient rate...otherwise you're creating a situation where you have too many empty trips down the court. And we all know DLO has not proven to be an efficient scorer in his 6 years. His career 36% 3-point shooting rate ranks below the average rate for all positions except center (centers make 34.2 % of their threes, but all other positions shoot at a higher average rate than Russell). And Russell stacks up even worse when we compare him to NBA averages in effective shooting percentage. Russell's career 50 eFG% ranks below the league average for all five positions. Simmons on the other hand scores at a far above league average 56 eFG%.

So if we want a guy who can take a lot of shots, DLO is a better choice than Simmons on the offensive end...he takes 3 more shots a game than Simmons. But Simmons' ability to convert at a much higher percentage (in addition to being a far better facilitator and offensive rebounder) makes him a more valuable offensive player. And of course we know how much more valuable Simmons is on defense.

I guess I'm surprised at those who are concerned about losing a one-trick felon like Beasley who pointed a rifle at a house-hunting family at about the same time he was dating Scottie Pippen's 47-year-old ex-wife...even though he was still legally married at the time! I wonder if Malik is improving his shooting on the metal nets in the Wright County jail that has been his home since June 1. And let's hope the Wright County medical staff is helping Malik with his constant injuries, because let's not forget he has only averaged 51 games per year in his 5-year career. I'm open to the wisdom of including McDaniels in a deal to bring back an all-NBA PG (I still think it's an easy decision, even though I'm intrigued by Jaden's potential, but I think we would be lucky to unload a oft-injured, no-defense loose cannon tying up $15 million of our cap space.

I'm confused at your love of efficiency but you don't use true shooting percentage instead of EFG%.

I'm certainly willing to deal Beasley but he is a legit asset right now for the Wolves so I want value for him in a deal. His injury history is a concern. So is Russell and for that matter Simmons too.

I agree that TS% is a better efficiency measure, and I just used it in my post above...Simmons is far ahead of DLO and even better than Beasley in TS%, despite his FT woes.

Monster, I think we tend to overvalue our assets here. I believe Malik Beasley is the only active NBA player currently behind bars, and he doesn't get out of jail for at least another month...I don't know if many GM's are willing to take on such a risky guy. And that's not even considering his lack of defense and injury history. Check the games played for Simmons, DLO and Beasley...unfortunately our guys have averaged far fewer games per season than Ben.

There are plenty of guys that have ran into trouble with the law and still are in the league making pretty good money. If it wasn't for that legal issue Beasley might have gotten 20 million a year last summer. Beasley doesn't turn 25 till November so there is still some potential there. Will he reach it or is he just a scorer off the bench? Idk but he has value and his contract is pretty decent plus it has an out in year 4 if a team decides to move on and that non guaranteed deal could have value on its own.

Yep Simmons has been healthier than those guys which is one reason I would actually pull the trigger on the deal but that doesn't erase the fact that Simmons is also an injury risk himself. It makes me have a bit of an appreciation for a guy like Dieng who isnt an amazing player but the guy missed basically just a handful of games over the years once he became a rotation player. Let's hope Towns last couple seasons were some bad luck and he gets back to being a really durable guy.

Sure, there are plenty of NBA players on the wrong side of the law, but to the best of my knowledge, Beasley is the only NBA rotation player spending his summer behind bars. His criminal offense was a serious one, and with guns and drugs involved, it's fortunate nobody got hurt...especially the kids who were in the car. This was not the action of a mentally healthy guy, and I don't know whether he has undergone any treatment for his mental issues. My biggest hope is that some team will ignore his lack of defense, repeated injuries and this bizarre felony, and be impressed enough by his 3-point shooting that they will be willing to take a chance on him. My guess is though Philly won't want anything to do with him.

Yes, durability is important, and Ant's and McDaniels' rookie years were quite impressive from a health standpoint. And Towns was very durable his first three seasons, so I agree with you that his recent injuries might just be bad luck. We've seen in the playoffs this year how a key injury or two can torpedo a team, so it would be terrific if our core going forward can stay healthy.

Yes. Beasley's contract is pretty solid for a youngish 20 ppg / 40% 3fg player.

Yes. Beasley's checkered past with criminal or immature behavior would keep certain teams from offering full value in return for him.

There's just more risk. Is there a policy that would make his next suspension even longer since he's already on the radar?

I personally think Beasley will be a potential 6th man of the year Finalist next season. He's perfectly suited for that role given his ability to get 3's up in bunches and shaky defense. He's also entering his prime. We'll need his scoring pop off the bench assuming we start DLO and Ant in the backcourt.

Q12543 wrote:I personally think Beasley will be a potential 6th man of the year Finalist next season. He's perfectly suited for that role given his ability to get 3's up in bunches and shaky defense. He's also entering his prime. We'll need his scoring pop off the bench assuming we start DLO and Ant in the backcourt.

I also like Beasley off the bench as a heat-check scorer... BUT... there's one caveat with him...

He's not great creating for others... or even himself. Some of the best bench gunners are valuable because they can take over games, possession after possession. And in a league STILL owned by those who can run a pick-and-roll... Beasley hasn't shown any sort of sustainable chops in doing so.

Until he does... it limits him a bit, even off the bench.