Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:It was great to see just how much Wiggins teammates want him to succeed. He's clearly a likeable guy. Its just insane to see someone with such highs and lows in one game. That 3rd 3 was a shot that a few people in the league can take and make. The other 6 he missed looked like my shot. He continues to be a mystery.

And that is why he is and will more than likely be frustrating. Because he has the talent but for whatever reason can't put it together for consistent stretches. If he didn't have the talent we wouldn't complain as much about him

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:It was great to see just how much Wiggins teammates want him to succeed. He's clearly a likeable guy. Its just insane to see someone with such highs and lows in one game. That 3rd 3 was a shot that a few people in the league can take and make. The other 6 he missed looked like my shot. He continues to be a mystery.

And that is why he is and will more than likely be frustrating. Because he has the talent but for whatever reason can't put it together for consistent stretches. If he didn't have the talent we wouldn't complain as much about him

And yet without Andrew, we very well could have a record of 1-2 right now. He deserves a lot of the criticism he gets, but let's give him his props when warranted.

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:It was great to see just how much Wiggins teammates want him to succeed. He's clearly a likeable guy. Its just insane to see someone with such highs and lows in one game. That 3rd 3 was a shot that a few people in the league can take and make. The other 6 he missed looked like my shot. He continues to be a mystery.

And that is why he is and will more than likely be frustrating. Because he has the talent but for whatever reason can't put it together for consistent stretches. If he didn't have the talent we wouldn't complain as much about him

Yes, he's the ultimate example of fool's gold. He gives you these flashes of brilliance, which then only causes you to play him more minutes, get him more shots, and use him as "point Wiggins", all in the hope that he can turn the corner and become that elusive shot making wing we so much want. We've seen this movie before....

That being said, he did save our butts last night.

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:It was great to see just how much Wiggins teammates want him to succeed. He's clearly a likeable guy. Its just insane to see someone with such highs and lows in one game. That 3rd 3 was a shot that a few people in the league can take and make. The other 6 he missed looked like my shot. He continues to be a mystery.

And that is why he is and will more than likely be frustrating. Because he has the talent but for whatever reason can't put it together for consistent stretches. If he didn't have the talent we wouldn't complain as much about him

Yes, he's the ultimate example of fool's gold. He gives you these flashes of brilliance, which then only causes you to play him more minutes, get him more shots, and use him as "point Wiggins", all in the hope that he can turn the corner and become that elusive shot making wing we so much want. We've seen this movie before....

That being said, he did save our butts last night.

Yep, Wiggins came through last night and has been clutch in two of our first three games so far this season. He looks more active off the ball and appears to be responding to Ryan's coaching. But it's early and his heroics last night don't totally completely erase his otherwise poor play last night, including his 3 consecutive turnovers, poor shot-selection and multiple defensive lapses. Yet, overall Wiggins has been a big plus for the Wolves so far this season.

Nevertheless, I'm highly skeptical to say the least when it comes to believing that Wiggins has turned some corner. We've seen even better performances from him than his half-quarter heroics last night only to watch him frustrate us game after game thereafter. If Wiggins puts together a streak of really good games this season, Rosas should be on the phone with GMs around the League to test their appetite for a Wiggins trade.

I'd start with Charlotte. That's a franchise in desperate need of something and a hot Wiggins might be enough to entice them giving us a decent return. And their front office doesn't appear to be comprised of the best and brightest. I'd offer Wiggins and Gorgui for Batum, Biyambo, Cleveland's 2020 2nd round pick (owned by Charlotte and likely in the 30-34 range) and Cleveland's 2020 first round pick with top 5 protection but eventually unprotected by 2023. Not sure even Charlotte's bad front office would do that deal, but it's worth a try of Wiggins has an extended hot streak. The cap relief alone might be worth the deal for the Wolves. We'd go from 4 years of Wiggins at $27M to 2 years of Batum at the same salary and from 2 years of Gorgui at $17M to 1 year of Biyambo at the same amount. Add a high second round pick from Cleveland and the Wolves get a pretty nice return even without the 1st round pick.

Abe's next day 3/4-arse DVR review...

- I chose to hang out with the gal pal instead of watching the 4th quarter. Wait... what? So I've only seen all the big Wiggins moments on Twitter feeds.

- I missed Andrew Wiggins. Maybe I'm a jinx? After long stretches of abysmal play, he came up big in a couple of games as mentioned by many. That's great. The bench reaction last night (also mentioned) was very cool. Good for him and them.

- Nunn for Miami. Who? He's off to a great start. He's been crazy efficient/consistent so far. He's taken either 17 or 18 shots in each of the first three games... and has made 8 - 10 of them. Who is he? Where'd he come from? It's strange to see a decent/good team rely on such a guy so much at the very beginning of his career. BUT... if he's playing this well in that system, Butler may be ready for a great season. That team will be good.

- A back-to-back for Miami. Good to take advantage of those games.

- Bam Abedayo is legit... now on both ends of the court. I was very impressed.

- I'm gonna really enjoy this surprising 3 - 0 start... and get ready to ramp up my Late Night DVR Review game. I'm still in preseason mode. I apologize.

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:It was great to see just how much Wiggins teammates want him to succeed. He's clearly a likeable guy. Its just insane to see someone with such highs and lows in one game. That 3rd 3 was a shot that a few people in the league can take and make. The other 6 he missed looked like my shot. He continues to be a mystery.

And that is why he is and will more than likely be frustrating. Because he has the talent but for whatever reason can't put it together for consistent stretches. If he didn't have the talent we wouldn't complain as much about him

Yes, he's the ultimate example of fool's gold. He gives you these flashes of brilliance, which then only causes you to play him more minutes, get him more shots, and use him as "point Wiggins", all in the hope that he can turn the corner and become that elusive shot making wing we so much want. We've seen this movie before....

That being said, he did save our butts last night.

I think you're tapping into the real problem, which has been the incorrect analysis of Wiggins' actual value. Since he was a #1 pick in spite of the flaws in his game, he has been treated like an A+ asset when in reality he has always been a hyper athletic, extremely inconsistent streaky scorer. The best part about last night was hearing that Saunders had the trust and cache to sit Wiggins and turn it into a teaching moment. It is amazing to me that it's taken this franchise 6 years to do that. There have always been athletic streaky scorers in the league, but the era of player empowerment seems to have had a negative effect on the team and Andrew actually playing to his real strengths.

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:It was great to see just how much Wiggins teammates want him to succeed. He's clearly a likeable guy. Its just insane to see someone with such highs and lows in one game. That 3rd 3 was a shot that a few people in the league can take and make. The other 6 he missed looked like my shot. He continues to be a mystery.

And that is why he is and will more than likely be frustrating. Because he has the talent but for whatever reason can't put it together for consistent stretches. If he didn't have the talent we wouldn't complain as much about him

Yes, he's the ultimate example of fool's gold. He gives you these flashes of brilliance, which then only causes you to play him more minutes, get him more shots, and use him as "point Wiggins", all in the hope that he can turn the corner and become that elusive shot making wing we so much want. We've seen this movie before....

That being said, he did save our butts last night.

I think you're tapping into the real problem, which has been the incorrect analysis of Wiggins' actual value. Since he was a #1 pick in spite of the flaws in his game, he has been treated like an A+ asset when in reality he has always been a hyper athletic, extremely inconsistent streaky scorer. The best part about last night was hearing that Saunders had the trust and cache to sit Wiggins and turn it into a teaching moment. It is amazing to me that it's taken this franchise 6 years to do that. There have always been athletic streaky scorers in the league, but the era of player empowerment seems to have had a negative effect on the team and Andrew actually playing to his real strengths.

Agreed. His #1 strength is creating shots. His #1 weakness is actually making them. Yet hardly any other wings on our team can create shots, ergo one of our worst shot makers ends up taking the most shots due both to the incorrect analysis you elude to but also due to some real basketball reasons.

One of his other strengths is durability. So we've never really had a chance to see how this team would perform on an extended run without Wiggins. Would our offense even be worse than it is because guys that aren't used to creating shots would be forced to do so and in the process be even less efficient than Wiggins? How would our defense look like?

We were 5-4 last season with him out of the lineup, a pace better than where we ended up on the year, but that's a pretty small sample size.

Oh, boy. This whole story of Saunders benching Wiggins is being blown out of proportion already. Seems like we could use a dose of reality.

Wiggins wasn't benched for the issues that usually ail him. For those that have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm referring to his usual poor shot selection, lackadaisical defense, and poor overall energy output. The former of which -- shot selection -- had been a point of emphasis all summer long that everyone except Wiggins had adjusted to prior to last night.

No, Wiggins was benched because of back-to-back inexplicable turnovers during a stretch of play where the entire unit on the floor had already been struggling. These turnovers, if you recall, were where Wiggins lost his dribble at the free throw line (left-hand dribble is nonexistent) and the much worse turnover where he just threw the ball out of bounds in transition. He also committed a foul prior to coming out of the game.

Getting Wiggins out and replacing him with Okogie was just as much about trying to inject energy and a spark in the game as it was a disciplinary move.

I see on Twitter it's already being spun into Saunders being a coach that is capable of holding players accountable, but the fact of the matter is that there was more involved with that decision than keeping Wiggins on a leash.

It was the right move by Saunders, but the narrative is starting to ignore game script and take on a new story within itself.

Camden0916 wrote:Oh, boy. This whole story of Saunders benching Wiggins is being blown out of proportion already. Seems like we could use a dose of reality.

Wiggins wasn't benched for the issues that usually ail him. For those that have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm referring to his usual poor shot selection, lackadaisical defense, and poor overall energy output. The former of which -- shot selection -- had been a point of emphasis all summer long that everyone except Wiggins had adjusted to prior to last night.

No, Wiggins was benched because of back-to-back inexplicable turnovers during a stretch of play where the entire unit on the floor had already been struggling. These turnovers, if you recall, were where Wiggins lost his dribble at the free throw line (left-hand dribble is nonexistent) and the much worse turnover where he just threw the ball out of bounds in transition. He also committed a foul prior to coming out of the game.

Getting Wiggins out and replacing him with Okogie was just as much about trying to inject energy and a spark in the game as it was a disciplinary move.

I see on Twitter it's already being spun into Saunders being a coach that is capable of holding players accountable, but the fact of the matter is that there was more involved with that decision than keeping Wiggins on a leash.

It was the right move by Saunders, but the narrative is starting to ignore game script and take on a new story within itself.

I don't think it's overreacting to cite this is the first time it's actually happened in 6 years. Will there be a long term impact? Probably not unless that is a precedent that continues. Either way it was the right thing like you said, unfortunately many coaches before Ryan haven't done the right thing as it pertains to Wiggins. I hope Ryan's instincts can keep moving in the right direction. I like the choices he's made in 3 games albeit against lackluster competition.

Camden wrote:Oh, boy. This whole story of Saunders benching Wiggins is being blown out of proportion already. Seems like we could use a dose of reality.

Wiggins wasn't benched for the issues that usually ail him. For those that have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm referring to his usual poor shot selection, lackadaisical defense, and poor overall energy output. The former of which -- shot selection -- had been a point of emphasis all summer long that everyone except Wiggins had adjusted to prior to last night.

No, Wiggins was benched because of back-to-back inexplicable turnovers during a stretch of play where the entire unit on the floor had already been struggling. These turnovers, if you recall, were where Wiggins lost his dribble at the free throw line (left-hand dribble is nonexistent) and the much worse turnover where he just threw the ball out of bounds in transition. He also committed a foul prior to coming out of the game.

Getting Wiggins out and replacing him with Okogie was just as much about trying to inject energy and a spark in the game as it was a disciplinary move.

I see on Twitter it's already being spun into Saunders being a coach that is capable of holding players accountable, but the fact of the matter is that there was more involved with that decision than keeping Wiggins on a leash.

It was the right move by Saunders, but the narrative is starting to ignore game script and take on a new story within itself.

What, Saunders isn't a coaching genius yet! He's one of Minnesota's own Cam!

I'm hopeful that eventually Rosas is able to do something with Wiggins (i.e. move him without giving up too much in the process), as he will need to be the objective one here. As long as Saunders is coach, I expect Wiggins to continue averaging 33-35 MPG, regardless of his output.

It doesn't help that our franchise can't find other wings that will really push him for minutes. You could argue Okogie, but he's probably in a perfect role right now and it's not like he doesn't still have some glaring holes in his game.