Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:It probably deserves its own thread, but my GM/HC choices -- should Tom Thibodeau be removed from his positions -- would be:

GM: Brian Wright
HC: Tony Bennett

Interesting Cam. I read a couple things about Wright. This would be 2 new guys in their positions in the NBA. Is there an experienced guy that might be good to have around to help both out at the front office level? Experience doesn't mean you are good but I do think it has its place and these jobs are incredibly vast (espcially GM/POBO) in what is expected and needed.

Yes, it would be a new position for both of them, however, I don't think experience in a certain role is as necessary as it once was. To clarify, I do think there's value in having experience in or around management, but I think there are available candidates that could step into the role of NBA GM or NBA HC and perform well. We've seen it with regards to Erik Spoelstra, Mike Budenholzer, and Brad Stevens on the head coaching front and Sam Presti, Bob Myers, and Sean Marks on the upper management side of things.

I'm sure Wright -- whenever he's inevitably hired by some team that wants him as their decision maker -- will surround himself by those that have that experience you're looking for. Successful people tend to acquire some of the best help.

I'd welcome the newness, however. We need fresh ideas and genuine creativity in a league that's constantly evolving yet also a league that also follows the leader, in a sense. Traditionalism, at times, fails to zig while others zag. I think those two that I specified are a good blend of prior success and potential to grow.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Buler should have been traded already and this is one example why. It would be a great move to trae him befrore the season and acquire some more younger talent an draft assets.

I agree. I think we're in the minority on this, Cool. And as long as Thibs is in charge it will never happen. Having failed to do a draft-day deal with Memphis for the 4th pick, I'd turn my attention to the Celtics. Kyrie and Jimmy are good friends and want to play together. So the Celtics organization should be pretty movitated to do a deal for Butler. The Celtics have four assets I'd be interested in for the Wolves:

1. Jayson Tatum
2. Jaylen Brown
3. The Kings' 2019 1st round pick (top 1 protected)
4. The Grizzlies' 2019 1st round (top 8 protected, then top 6 the next yr., then unprotected)

Give me two of those assets plus Horford for salary match and I'd do the deal.

I never bet but I would put a lot of money on the Celtics having no interest in this proposed deal. Just the way I see it. I doubt they would even give up Brown or Tatum straight up for Butler. That's not a knock on Butler just how valuable those young guys are when you consider their contracts etc.

Monster - Actually, even if were a betting guy, I wouldn't have enough confidence in my idea to bet you. :). Part of it is the value the Celtics likely put on those two guys. But you have to admit that part of the equation is Butler's value because I have no doubt the Celtics would do that deal for Kawhi Leonard. The Bulls approached the Celtics last summer about Butler and the Celtics apparently showed absolutely no interest. Yet, I suspect that the Kyrie factor might prompt the Celtics to include Brown along with one of those two likely lottery picks in a deal for Butler. In the alternative, I'd trade Butler and Gorgui for both those picks and Hayward. I think the Celtics would do that deal.

The Celtics don't do it. Brad Stevens wouldn't want them to move his guy Hayward after 5 minutes of basketball in a Celtics uniform.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Buler should have been traded already and this is one example why. It would be a great move to trae him befrore the season and acquire some more younger talent an draft assets.

I agree. I think we're in the minority on this, Cool. And as long as Thibs is in charge it will never happen. Having failed to do a draft-day deal with Memphis for the 4th pick, I'd turn my attention to the Celtics. Kyrie and Jimmy are good friends and want to play together. So the Celtics organization should be pretty movitated to do a deal for Butler. The Celtics have four assets I'd be interested in for the Wolves:

1. Jayson Tatum
2. Jaylen Brown
3. The Kings' 2019 1st round pick (top 1 protected)
4. The Grizzlies' 2019 1st round (top 8 protected, then top 6 the next yr., then unprotected)

Give me two of those assets plus Horford for salary match and I'd do the deal.

I never bet but I would put a lot of money on the Celtics having no interest in this proposed deal. Just the way I see it. I doubt they would even give up Brown or Tatum straight up for Butler. That's not a knock on Butler just how valuable those young guys are when you consider their contracts etc.

Monster - Actually, even if were a betting guy, I wouldn't have enough confidence in my idea to bet you. :). Part of it is the value the Celtics likely put on those two guys. But you have to admit that part of the equation is Butler's value because I have no doubt the Celtics would do that deal for Kawhi Leonard. The Bulls approached the Celtics last summer about Butler and the Celtics apparently showed absolutely no interest. Yet, I suspect that the Kyrie factor might prompt the Celtics to include Brown along with one of those two likely lottery picks in a deal for Butler. In the alternative, I'd trade Butler and Gorgui for both those picks and Hayward. I think the Celtics would do that deal.

The Celtics don't do it. Brad Stevens wouldn't want them to move his guy Hayward after 5 minutes of basketball in a Celtics uniform.

I think the Celtics would do that deal. We can't even be sure Hayward will ever be the same player he was and he's getting $30 million per year. Butler, with Tatum, Brown and Horford, would be too good for Boston to refuse even if it meant taking on Gorgiu. In fact Gorgui's not a bad player and he'd probably flourish under Stevens.

The only reason for the Wolves to do it is to maximize draft assets to retool around KAT. We have to accept that Butler is leaving next year. Getting two likely top 10 picks next summer would be a good move for the Wolves. Hayward would be for salary match. Anything we get from him would be a bonus.

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Buler should have been traded already and this is one example why. It would be a great move to trae him befrore the season and acquire some more younger talent an draft assets.

I agree. I think we're in the minority on this, Cool. And as long as Thibs is in charge it will never happen. Having failed to do a draft-day deal with Memphis for the 4th pick, I'd turn my attention to the Celtics. Kyrie and Jimmy are good friends and want to play together. So the Celtics organization should be pretty movitated to do a deal for Butler. The Celtics have four assets I'd be interested in for the Wolves:

1. Jayson Tatum
2. Jaylen Brown
3. The Kings' 2019 1st round pick (top 1 protected)
4. The Grizzlies' 2019 1st round (top 8 protected, then top 6 the next yr., then unprotected)

Give me two of those assets plus Horford for salary match and I'd do the deal.

I never bet but I would put a lot of money on the Celtics having no interest in this proposed deal. Just the way I see it. I doubt they would even give up Brown or Tatum straight up for Butler. That's not a knock on Butler just how valuable those young guys are when you consider their contracts etc.

Monster - Actually, even if were a betting guy, I wouldn't have enough confidence in my idea to bet you. :). Part of it is the value the Celtics likely put on those two guys. But you have to admit that part of the equation is Butler's value because I have no doubt the Celtics would do that deal for Kawhi Leonard. The Bulls approached the Celtics last summer about Butler and the Celtics apparently showed absolutely no interest. Yet, I suspect that the Kyrie factor might prompt the Celtics to include Brown along with one of those two likely lottery picks in a deal for Butler. In the alternative, I'd trade Butler and Gorgui for both those picks and Hayward. I think the Celtics would do that deal.

The Celtics don't do it. Brad Stevens wouldn't want them to move his guy Hayward after 5 minutes of basketball in a Celtics uniform.

I think the Celtics would do that deal. We can't even be sure Hayward will ever be the same player he was and he's getting $30 million per year. Butler, with Tatum, Brown and Horford, would be too good for Boston to refuse even if it meant taking on Gorgiu. In fact Gorgui's not a bad player and he'd probably flourish under Stevens.

The only reason for the Wolves to do it is to maximize draft assets to retool around KAT. We have to accept that Butler is leaving next year. Getting two likely top 10 picks next summer would be a good move for the Wolves. Hayward would be for salary match. Anything we get from him would be a bonus.

So then why would ANYONE take Hayward? If Brad Stevens and the Celtics aren't sure of Hayward why would anyone be? Brad's the guy who knows Hayward best. To trade him looks terrible on Boston's part.


As I've said before, the Wolves shouldn't move any of their guys unless there's a new regime in place to execute it.

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:It probably deserves its own thread, but my GM/HC choices -- should Tom Thibodeau be removed from his positions -- would be:

GM: Brian Wright
HC: Tony Bennett

Interesting Cam. I read a couple things about Wright. This would be 2 new guys in their positions in the NBA. Is there an experienced guy that might be good to have around to help both out at the front office level? Experience doesn't mean you are good but I do think it has its place and these jobs are incredibly vast (espcially GM/POBO) in what is expected and needed.

Yes, it would be a new position for both of them, however, I don't think experience in a certain role is as necessary as it once was. To clarify, I do think there's value in having experience in or around management, but I think there are available candidates that could step into the role of NBA GM or NBA HC and perform well. We've seen it with regards to Erik Spoelstra, Mike Budenholzer, and Brad Stevens on the head coaching front and Sam Presti, Bob Myers, and Sean Marks on the upper management side of things.

I'm sure Wright -- whenever he's inevitably hired by some team that wants him as their decision maker -- will surround himself by those that have that experience you're looking for. Successful people tend to acquire some of the best help.

I'd welcome the newness, however. We need fresh ideas and genuine creativity in a league that's constantly evolving yet also a league that also follows the leader, in a sense. Traditionalism, at times, fails to zig while others zag. I think those two that I specified are a good blend of prior success and potential to grow.

Good points Cam thanks for the response.

I think one of the critiques of Thibs so far is that he takes too much control at various levels of his vast position. I don't think it's so much he doesn't have smart or talented people working for him it's that people don't think he utilizes others well enough. I think there is a chance he learns to lean on more people as time goes on. I also hope that both in the FO and the coaching staff someone rises in the organization that can have some influence in the ways you have outlined in your post.

Why don't we just consolidate down to 8 teams so more guys can play with their buddies?

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:It probably deserves its own thread, but my GM/HC choices -- should Tom Thibodeau be removed from his positions -- would be:

GM: Brian Wright
HC: Tony Bennett

Interesting Cam. I read a couple things about Wright. This would be 2 new guys in their positions in the NBA. Is there an experienced guy that might be good to have around to help both out at the front office level? Experience doesn't mean you are good but I do think it has its place and these jobs are incredibly vast (espcially GM/POBO) in what is expected and needed.

Yes, it would be a new position for both of them, however, I don't think experience in a certain role is as necessary as it once was. To clarify, I do think there's value in having experience in or around management, but I think there are available candidates that could step into the role of NBA GM or NBA HC and perform well. We've seen it with regards to Erik Spoelstra, Mike Budenholzer, and Brad Stevens on the head coaching front and Sam Presti, Bob Myers, and Sean Marks on the upper management side of things.

I'm sure Wright -- whenever he's inevitably hired by some team that wants him as their decision maker -- will surround himself by those that have that experience you're looking for. Successful people tend to acquire some of the best help.

I'd welcome the newness, however. We need fresh ideas and genuine creativity in a league that's constantly evolving yet also a league that also follows the leader, in a sense. Traditionalism, at times, fails to zig while others zag. I think those two that I specified are a good blend of prior success and potential to grow.

Good points Cam thanks for the response.

I think one of the critiques of Thibs so far is that he takes too much control at various levels of his vast position. I don't think it's so much he doesn't have smart or talented people working for him it's that people don't think he utilizes others well enough. I think there is a chance he learns to lean on more people as time goes on. I also hope that both in the FO and the coaching staff someone rises in the organization that can have some influence in the ways you have outlined in your post.

Monster -- If there's one thing we should know by now, it's that Thibodeau isn't going to evolve into someone he's not. He's not going to change. In fact, the more pressure he feels the more he retreats to his old ways and old familiar people -- like pursuing and signing former Bulls players. I won't completely discount the possibility that his old ways, combined with the Wolves current talent, can get the Wolves into contention as a top 2 or 3 team in the West. But I'm not holding my breath either.

I'll consider the season successful, if it leads to us dumping Thibs. He was such a bad fit from the start and squandered so many opportunities. The only thing that I liked about Thibs was his reputation for assembling a top defensive team and he's been an utter failure in that respect. Taylor was foolish in giving him the dual role. Thibs the coach gets a C from me and Thibs the GM gets a D. Pretty much every free agent signing has been an overpay for old guys or useless guys and I didn't like the Butler or Rubio trades. I like Jimmy as a player but he is a bad fit here. Thibs seems like he is putting more effort in saving his own a$$ than building a championship contender. Its funny, he says all the right things and then does the opposite. I don't think Butler is staying here because of Thibs, but I think Thibs would like Taylor to think that is the case.

I for one don't see the Wolves as a playoff lock at all. GS, Houston, OKC, Utah, Portland and Denver should all make the playoffs. I see Spurs, Lakers, Pelicans and Wolves fighting for the final two spots.