Warriors vs Pups GDT

[kekgeek]

I like the fight in the team. Warriors are just so fucking good

[Coolbreeze44]

Well, we ran out of steam at the end. Good experience though. If we have Butler and a little rest we're not that far away.

[Wolvesfan21]

What you guys have to realize is that offense and defense are one continuum. One affects the other. The teams we play get a 20 second rest on most possessions because we dribble the ball in the half court and don't make them defend with all 5 players as a unit. So of course they have more energy for the offensive end of the floor. It's one of the main reasons we struggle defensively. We don't make the opponent work hard enough on the defensive end of the floor. Why? Because we walk it up, stand around and play iso basketball all night.

Yep, I've said this as well a few times. We let them rest as we dribble slowly up the court, they make us run on defense, then we let them rest as we dribble slow...................

It has to have an effect on our defensive stats.

I would like to see more transitional pushes and just maybe, get some easy buckets and turn the game around and let us rest on defense, maybe.

[Coolbreeze44]

What you guys have to realize is that offense and defense are one continuum. One affects the other. The teams we play get a 20 second rest on most possessions because we dribble the ball in the half court and don't make them defend with all 5 players as a unit. So of course they have more energy for the offensive end of the floor. It's one of the main reasons we struggle defensively. We don't make the opponent work hard enough on the defensive end of the floor. Why? Because we walk it up, stand around and play iso basketball all night.

Yep, I've said this as well a few times. We let them rest as we dribble slowly up the court, they make us run on defense, then we let them rest as we dribble slow...................

It has to have an effect on our defensive stats.

I would like to see more transitional pushes and just maybe, get some easy buckets and turn the game around and let us rest on defense, maybe.

You get it.

[kekgeek]

What you guys have to realize is that offense and defense are one continuum. One affects the other. The teams we play get a 20 second rest on most possessions because we dribble the ball in the half court and don't make them defend with all 5 players as a unit. So of course they have more energy for the offensive end of the floor. It's one of the main reasons we struggle defensively. We don't make the opponent work hard enough on the defensive end of the floor. Why? Because we walk it up, stand around and play iso basketball all night.

Yep, I've said this as well a few times. We let them rest as we dribble slowly up the court, they make us run on defense, then we let them rest as we dribble slow...................

It has to have an effect on our defensive stats.

I would like to see more transitional pushes and just maybe, get some easy buckets and turn the game around and let us rest on defense, maybe.

You get it.

Wanted to test your theory so I looked at pace compared to defensive rating (mostly because I am grumpy, haha).

Top 10 Pace teams

LAL = 12th def rating
76ers = 3rd def rating
GSW = 6th def rating
Phx = 29th def rating
Nets = 17th def rating
Pelicans = 21th def rating
Magic = 27th def rating
Hou = 11th def rating
Cha = 8th def rating
Tor = 4th def rating

Lowest 10 pace teams
Mem = 16th def rating
SAS = 2nd def rating
Mia = 10th def rating
Uta = 13th def rating
Dal = 19th def rating
Sac = 28th def rating
Min = 23rd def rating
Bucks = 25th def rating
Det = 7th def rating
OKC = 5th def rating
Bos = 1st def rating

It is a mix bag both ways

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Haven't watched the game yet because I've been at work for 30 hours straight -- not a joke. And I almost didn't check this thread when I got off because I knew this would be one of those nights where posters of all perspectives and beliefs would make a comment(s) that essentially dismissed the results that the Wolves have gotten to this point by playing a certain way. And of course I was right.

- The Wolves play at a pace that minimizes turnovers and is supposed to emphasize efficiency. Turning the game into a track meet almost always guarantees more turnovers, which in turn reduces efficiency (wasted possessions).

- The Wolves as currently constructed are not built to play fast. I'm sure fans see the raw athleticism of Jeff Teague, Jimmy Butler, Andrew Wiggins, and Karl-Anthony Towns and think, "That team should lead the league in fastbreak points." Well, that's not looking at the big picture. Playing fast requires exerting more energy. Playing with more energy also requires having capable reserves that can give players ahead of them a breather. Lastly, playing fast tends to reward teams that can shoot threes and cripple those that cannot. The Wolves have one of the worst second units in basketball and are bottom of the league in three-point shooting. It's my opinion that pace of play isn't an issue, especially for a team that is third in OffRtg this season.

From an article on NBA.com (January 18th):

The Wolves rank fifth in field goal percentage, including third in field goal percentage in the restricted area and fourth in field goal percentage on other paint shots. Karl-Anthony Towns and Taj Gibson are two of the 10 players who have shot 70 percent or better on at least 200 shots in the restricted area, while Jimmy Butler leads the league in field goal percentage (53 percent) on other paint shots (minimum 100 attempts.).

The Wolves' lack of threes drops them from fifth in field goal percentage to 10th in effective field goal percentage, but that's still top 10. They're sort of the anti-Rockets (though not to the degree that the Knicks are). Because of all the 3-pointers they shoot, the Rockets rank 13th in field goal percentage and second in effective field goal percentage.

Shooting is most important, but the Wolves' offense also ranks in the top 10 in free throw rate (sixth), turnover percentage (third), and offensive rebounding percentage (fifth). In fact, they're the only team that ranks in the top 10 in each of the other three "four factors" of efficiency.

So, the Wolves are playing to their strengths, establishing a style of play that works for them, emphasizing efficiency without shooting 30 threes a game and looking to hit a certain mark for fast break points, and it's resulting in wins aplenty, but because it goes against the modern day template of "pace and space" the Wolves must make drastic changes? Sorry, but that doesn't sound like a successful plan of attack.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Haven't been able to catch the last two games, but our defense has really taken hit. I guess I'm mostly disappointed in not being able to hold Portland to fewer points. Golden State is the greatest basketball team ever, so I kind of brush this loss off....

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Cam, I agree with you. When has Butler ever played at a fast pace? That dude is a grinder. And Teague can push, but the ball sticks to his hands too much. How often have we seen him make a head man pass? Wiggins is certainly capable of getting out and running, but his effort level comes and goes. He's not like LaVine (or even Bazz for that matter), guys that would sprint out full bore.

Thibs has designed the offense to maximize the players he has. It's ugly, I don't particularly like it, but you can't argue with the results. The problem is I doubt in the playoffs we see the kind of positive free throw differential we're so reliant on now.

[AbeVigodaLive]

DVR Summary (as I'm yawning at work this morning...)

- The Timberwolves have not had 20 fast break points in any game this season... The Warriors had 24 fast break points vs. the Timberwolves last night.

... in the 1st quarter.

- But that's not necessarily a knock on the Timberwolves offense... as much as its defense. It's not like GSW was getting those fast break points on TOs. The Wolves only had 10. They were getting them off missed/made buckets. Any time they wanted.

- GSW could have picked the score last night. We saw about a D+ effort defensively from them. They Milton Berled the Wolves defensively.

TRENDS:

- This is 6 straight games where the Wolves were destroyed in Efg% ...

- It's one thing to give up three pointers... it's another to know who's gonna take them and be helpless.
McCollum + Lillard + Curry + Durant + Thompson are a combined 28 - 43 (65.1%). Just for fun... the Wolves are 26 - 74 over their previous 4 games combined.

- 56.0% + 53.6% + 53.9% = field goal percentage of Wolves opponents on this West Coast trip. I know there are times when teams just get hot. But this seems more than that when it's been THAT extreme.

- More on field goal percentage. Is it important? After all, the Wolves are #30 in opponent field goal percentage (47.9%) but the team is 31 - 20. So it's overrated!

Wait. Look closer.

Sacramento and Cleveland are ranked #29 and #28. Meh. But wait... look closer...
Boston, San Antonio, Golden State and Toronto are all ranked in the top 5 for opponent field goal percentage.

It still matters. Considering the Wolves also give up more three pointers (11.0) at a much higher percentage (37.2%)... the Wolves are definitely the anomaly here.

- I understand that blips happen. And Butler is out. And we should all remain ecstatic that the Wolves are gonna make the playoffs. I'm very cool with all that. But it's becoming obvious in games vs. Houston and GSW this season just how far the Wolves are to the ultimate goal. I'm not sure how to get there. It's tough. Obviously. So I'll enjoy a playoff berth and not worry about any of that for now.

[Duke13]

Haven't watched the game yet because I've been at work for 30 hours straight -- not a joke. And I almost didn't check this thread when I got off because I knew this would be one of those nights where posters of all perspectives and beliefs would make a comment(s) that essentially dismissed the results that the Wolves have gotten to this point by playing a certain way. And of course I was right.

- The Wolves play at a pace that minimizes turnovers and is supposed to emphasize efficiency. Turning the game into a track meet almost always guarantees more turnovers, which in turn reduces efficiency (wasted possessions).

- The Wolves as currently constructed are not built to play fast. I'm sure fans see the raw athleticism of Jeff Teague, Jimmy Butler, Andrew Wiggins, and Karl-Anthony Towns and think, "That team should lead the league in fastbreak points." Well, that's not looking at the big picture. Playing fast requires exerting more energy. Playing with more energy also requires having capable reserves that can give players ahead of them a breather. Lastly, playing fast tends to reward teams that can shoot threes and cripple those that cannot. The Wolves have one of the worst second units in basketball and are bottom of the league in three-point shooting. It's my opinion that pace of play isn't an issue, especially for a team that is third in OffRtg this season.

From an article on NBA.com (January 18th):

The Wolves rank fifth in field goal percentage, including third in field goal percentage in the restricted area and fourth in field goal percentage on other paint shots. Karl-Anthony Towns and Taj Gibson are two of the 10 players who have shot 70 percent or better on at least 200 shots in the restricted area, while Jimmy Butler leads the league in field goal percentage (53 percent) on other paint shots (minimum 100 attempts.).

The Wolves' lack of threes drops them from fifth in field goal percentage to 10th in effective field goal percentage, but that's still top 10. They're sort of the anti-Rockets (though not to the degree that the Knicks are). Because of all the 3-pointers they shoot, the Rockets rank 13th in field goal percentage and second in effective field goal percentage.

Shooting is most important, but the Wolves' offense also ranks in the top 10 in free throw rate (sixth), turnover percentage (third), and offensive rebounding percentage (fifth). In fact, they're the only team that ranks in the top 10 in each of the other three "four factors" of efficiency.

So, the Wolves are playing to their strengths, establishing a style of play that works for them, emphasizing efficiency without shooting 30 threes a game and looking to hit a certain mark for fast break points, and it's resulting in wins aplenty, but because it goes against the modern day template of "pace and space" the Wolves must make drastic changes? Sorry, but that doesn't sound like a successful plan of attack.

Tough to argue with some of your points, but the Wolves will absolutely have to change to some degree to complete with Houston and GS, and that's the goals. It's not like to would take a revolutionary change to push the ball more instead of grinding out every possession. It doesn't play to the strengths of Wig and Kat. The players might actually enjoy it also, which has benefits.

Regarding the bench, small example with Belly but he could barely get 10 minutes, due to injury he's played 30+ last 4-5 games and has been very good. So it's Tibs job to find lineups and run sets to get him involved.