CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's sad. All those years in the early stages of the franchise where we always seemed to draw the pick right after the blue chippers were gone. We finally get a guy who was considered a can't miss star. A guy who was crucial to the immediate and long term future of the team. A guy who would allow us to forget about some of the low points. And then we find out he has just as many flaws as strengths. We discover he's not an alpha. For some reason he regresses instead of improves.
I suppose this happens to other franchises ocasionally. Markelle Fultz and Greg Oden come to mind as can't miss players who didn't fulfill their promise for one reason or another. But our franchise needed a different result this time. Who knows when or if we will ever be in the position to select a can't miss player again. What we do know is we're not much better than the day we traded for Wig, and that is a travesty. I like Wig the player and especially the man. But he's not what we thought we were getting, and not what we desperately needed.
This franchise's problem isn't that Wiggins will never be what was promised, or that we always draft one spot later than there are obvious stars available. The problem is that they never manage to be the team to draft that transformational player that is there every year in the 5-15 range. Has there been a single year that we cannot look back on and see a player we didn't take that is a star player now? You don't hit on that player every year, but the Wolves have never done so with the single exception of the year they drafted KG.
Off the top of my head the Wolves traded Ray Allen, passed ON- Steph Curry, Greek Freak, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Kemba Walker and Paul George. Did I miss any? I'm sure. LOL
I was just thinking too, the Wolves essentially drafted Wiggins because the trade talks were going on before the draft that year. They could of had Embiid, Marcus Smart or Julius Randle really. Nikola Jokic was drafted mid 2nd round that year too we drafted. We got Wiggins and LaVine. Could have had Embiid or Jokic instead. So sad. ):
CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's sad. All those years in the early stages of the franchise where we always seemed to draw the pick right after the blue chippers were gone. We finally get a guy who was considered a can't miss star.ho was considered a can't miss star. A guy who was crucial to the immediate and long term future of the team. A guy who would allow us to forget about some of the low points. And then we find out he has just as many flaws as strengths. We discover he's not an alpha. For some reason he regresses instead of improves.
I suppose this happens to other franchises ocasionally. Markelle Fultz and Greg Oden come to mind as can't miss players who didn't fulfill their promise for one reason or another. But our franchise needed a different result this time. Who knows when or if we will ever be in the position to select a can't miss player again. What we do know is we're not much better than the day we traded for Wig, and that is a travesty. I like Wig the player and especially the man. But he's not what we thought we were getting, and not what we desperately needed.
Not sure I would characterize him as a "can't miss" star. There were some yellow flags - I won't call them red flags - in college. I certainly don't blame the Wolves for taking him, but I'm not sure many people thought of him as an absolute can't miss. The motor/non-alpha issue dates back many years for example.
Edit: I meant I don't blame the Wolves for trading for him at the time. Where they really screwed up was signing him to a max deal.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's sad. All those years in the early stages of the franchise where we always seemed to draw the pick right after the blue chippers were gone. We finally get a guy who was considered a can't miss star.ho was considered a can't miss star. A guy who was crucial to the immediate and long term future of the team. A guy who would allow us to forget about some of the low points. And then we find out he has just as many flaws as strengths. We discover he's not an alpha. For some reason he regresses instead of improves.
I suppose this happens to other franchises ocasionally. Markelle Fultz and Greg Oden come to mind as can't miss players who didn't fulfill their promise for one reason or another. But our franchise needed a different result this time. Who knows when or if we will ever be in the position to select a can't miss player again. What we do know is we're not much better than the day we traded for Wig, and that is a travesty. I like Wig the player and especially the man. But he's not what we thought we were getting, and not what we desperately needed.
Not sure I would characterize him as a "can't miss" star. There were some yellow flags - I won't call them red flags - in college. I certainly don't blame the Wolves for taking him, but I'm not sure many people thought of him as an absolute can't miss. The motor/non-alpha issue dates back many years for example.
Edit: I meant I don't blame the Wolves for trading for him at the time. Where they really screwed up was signing him to a max deal.
No you're wrong about that. He was considered the next one long before he got to Kansas. Maybe some yellow flags appeared in his one year in college, but not many. And most if not all went away when he broke the Kansas Freshman single game scoring record with 41 points. He was one of the highest regarded prospects we've seen, certainly the can't miss label applied.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's sad. All those years in the early stages of the franchise where we always seemed to draw the pick right after the blue chippers were gone. We finally get a guy who was considered a can't miss star.ho was considered a can't miss star. A guy who was crucial to the immediate and long term future of the team. A guy who would allow us to forget about some of the low points. And then we find out he has just as many flaws as strengths. We discover he's not an alpha. For some reason he regresses instead of improves.
I suppose this happens to other franchises ocasionally. Markelle Fultz and Greg Oden come to mind as can't miss players who didn't fulfill their promise for one reason or another. But our franchise needed a different result this time. Who knows when or if we will ever be in the position to select a can't miss player again. What we do know is we're not much better than the day we traded for Wig, and that is a travesty. I like Wig the player and especially the man. But he's not what we thought we were getting, and not what we desperately needed.
Not sure I would characterize him as a "can't miss" star. There were some yellow flags - I won't call them red flags - in college. I certainly don't blame the Wolves for taking him, but I'm not sure many people thought of him as an absolute can't miss. The motor/non-alpha issue dates back many years for example.
Edit: I meant I don't blame the Wolves for trading for him at the time. Where they really screwed up was signing him to a max deal.
No you're wrong about that. He was considered the next one long before he got to Kansas. Maybe some yellow flags appeared in his one year in college, but not many. And most if not all went away when he broke the Kansas Freshman single game scoring record with 41 points. He was one of the highest regarded prospects we've seen, certainly the can't miss label applied.
I remember the one big question regarding Wiggins was his motor.... sadly it's no longer a question. There was talk about coming to Minnesota being good for him because he couldn't just coast behind a guy like LeBron and would have to push himself.... or not.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's sad. All those years in the early stages of the franchise where we always seemed to draw the pick right after the blue chippers were gone. We finally get a guy who was considered a can't miss star.ho was considered a can't miss star. A guy who was crucial to the immediate and long term future of the team. A guy who would allow us to forget about some of the low points. And then we find out he has just as many flaws as strengths. We discover he's not an alpha. For some reason he regresses instead of improves.
I suppose this happens to other franchises ocasionally. Markelle Fultz and Greg Oden come to mind as can't miss players who didn't fulfill their promise for one reason or another. But our franchise needed a different result this time. Who knows when or if we will ever be in the position to select a can't miss player again. What we do know is we're not much better than the day we traded for Wig, and that is a travesty. I like Wig the player and especially the man. But he's not what we thought we were getting, and not what we desperately needed.
Not sure I would characterize him as a "can't miss" star. There were some yellow flags - I won't call them red flags - in college. I certainly don't blame the Wolves for taking him, but I'm not sure many people thought of him as an absolute can't miss. The motor/non-alpha issue dates back many years for example.
Edit: I meant I don't blame the Wolves for trading for him at the time. Where they really screwed up was signing him to a max deal.
No you're wrong about that. He was considered the next one long before he got to Kansas. Maybe some yellow flags appeared in his one year in college, but not many. And most if not all went away when he broke the Kansas Freshman single game scoring record with 41 points. He was one of the highest regarded prospects we've seen, certainly the can't miss label applied.
I think you're partially right, cool...Andrew was on everyone's radar from about age 13, and was completely dominant in AAU and high school and a certain #1 future pick. But I think his year at Kansas was disappointing, and made several scouts question whether he should be the top pick. There were all sorts of questions about his motor. And his stats were rather lukewarm...17.2 PPG on only 45% shooting (34% from threes), and not much in the way of "do shit" stats. All that said, I was excited when Cleveland gave him up, but his motor issues were well documented before he came here.
I agree with LST, there were a lot of scout or Execs not sold in Wiggins coming into the draft. But yes he was highly touted early. That single game scoring record did nothing to deter scouts about questioning him. Even after his rookie of the year, a lot of people weren't sold on his game. I don't know how you can dispute that.
Excerpts from the Draft Express scouting report after his season ended at Kansas, but before the draft:
Yellow Flag #1
"He's for the most part a straight-line ball-handler, as the ball slows him down and doesn't do a great job changing speeds or directions, particularly with his off hand, but is capable of getting inside the paint effectively regardless thanks to his exceptionally quick first step".
Yellow Flag #2
"As a shooter, Wiggins is somewhat of a mixed bag. His mechanics are very good and he's a capable shooter with both his feet set or off the dribble, even if the results are inconsistent at this point—as he converted just 34% of his 3-point attempts on the year. His shot-selection leave something to be desired at times, he has a tendency for settling for long contested jumpers, but should be able to develop into a very solid outside shooter in time as long as he puts the work in."
Yellow Flag #3
"To reach his full potential, NBA teams will want to see Wiggins become more aggressive with the way he approaches the game. He has somewhat of a laid-back demeanor on the floor, which can be seen in the way he finishes around the basket at times, his tendency for shying away from contact, and his propensity for settling for long jumpers. He looks reluctant at times to just explode down the lane and dunk on people, which his physical tools suggest he should be able to much more frequently than he does. Part of that might have to do with his youth, lack of experience and strength."
Q12543 wrote:Excerpts from the Draft Express scouting report after his season ended at Kansas, but before the draft:
Yellow Flag #1
"He's for the most part a straight-line ball-handler, as the ball slows him down and doesn't do a great job changing speeds or directions, particularly with his off hand, but is capable of getting inside the paint effectively regardless thanks to his exceptionally quick first step".
Yellow Flag #2
"As a shooter, Wiggins is somewhat of a mixed bag. His mechanics are very good and he's a capable shooter with both his feet set or off the dribble, even if the results are inconsistent at this point—as he converted just 34% of his 3-point attempts on the year. His shot-selection leave something to be desired at times, he has a tendency for settling for long contested jumpers, but should be able to develop into a very solid outside shooter in time as long as he puts the work in."
Yellow Flag #3
"To reach his full potential, NBA teams will want to see Wiggins become more aggressive with the way he approaches the game. He has somewhat of a laid-back demeanor on the floor, which can be seen in the way he finishes around the basket at times, his tendency for shying away from contact, and his propensity for settling for long jumpers. He looks reluctant at times to just explode down the lane and dunk on people, which his physical tools suggest he should be able to much more frequently than he does. Part of that might have to do with his youth, lack of experience and strength."
Q12543 wrote:Excerpts from the Draft Express scouting report after his season ended at Kansas, but before the draft:
Yellow Flag #1
"He's for the most part a straight-line ball-handler, as the ball slows him down and doesn't do a great job changing speeds or directions, particularly with his off hand, but is capable of getting inside the paint effectively regardless thanks to his exceptionally quick first step".
Yellow Flag #2
"As a shooter, Wiggins is somewhat of a mixed bag. His mechanics are very good and he's a capable shooter with both his feet set or off the dribble, even if the results are inconsistent at this point—as he converted just 34% of his 3-point attempts on the year. His shot-selection leave something to be desired at times, he has a tendency for settling for long contested jumpers, but should be able to develop into a very solid outside shooter in time as long as he puts the work in."
Yellow Flag #3
"To reach his full potential, NBA teams will want to see Wiggins become more aggressive with the way he approaches the game. He has somewhat of a laid-back demeanor on the floor, which can be seen in the way he finishes around the basket at times, his tendency for shying away from contact, and his propensity for settling for long jumpers. He looks reluctant at times to just explode down the lane and dunk on people, which his physical tools suggest he should be able to much more frequently than he does. Part of that might have to do with his youth, lack of experience and strength."
So that's it? You found one source to support your point so now it's gospel? I did a quick search to see how many scouts labeled him can't miss, and spoiler alert, there was a lot of them. But all this aside, as this board often does it takes one item out of context and misses the real point. That real point was that the Wolves needed Wig to become an all star level player. Either that happened or this rebuild was going to fail like the others. And the travesty was that it didn't happen. Now he's been paid and we're stuck. Who gives a fuck at this point what he was labeled coming out of school?
