Best Thing That Could Happen This Summer

[TheFuture]

It's also funny how much time we debate the need for a scoring PG versus keeping Rubio when we already have a top 10 offense and bottom 4 defense. Sorry guys, but a 20-year old rookie PG ain't going to help us much in the area we need it most.

I always respect your posts Q and I agree with many of your views. Yet, I cannot recall your exact best draft pick and off season moves youd deem a success. I admit I may have skimmed over you stating such (some threads get LONG).

I am curious as to what you see in recent playoffs vs. What our team currently does well.

What is your acceptable/realistic off season?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.

The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.

Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.

Kahns do you find the humor in how just a year or 2 ago this board was saying that you didn't have to have a good/great PG to win? the league is different now but part of it is the rule changes part fo it is the insane talent and part is how the game has evolved with guys getting more skilled. Im not completely convinced you HAVE to have a PG be the guy to do it but SOMEONE has to either be added to the roster for that role or someone already on the roster has to come into it. What we still don't know is how the dynamic of Wiggins Town and Lavine works out. those guys could be a deadly group of scorers.

I think the league is generally the same. There are just a lot of really good PG's now. At the end of the day your primary ball handler needs to be able to break down the defense and score the ball or setup teammates. Ricky can setup teammates, but can't score and Wiggins can score, but can't setup teammates off his drives. Whether it's a PG or wing it doesn't matter. All I know is there are a lot more PG's who can do it in the league right now and Fultz and Ball can do it while there are less wings/bigs who can be that primary playmaking guy and I don't think Tatum or Isaac can do it and Jackson is a maybe. So you have Lebron, Harden, Batum, Butler, Horford Giannis and Draymond as the only wings/bigs who averaged 5 APG's or more per game out of the 31 players who managed that feat this year. That's 23% of the top playmakers in the league. Ricky and Draymond are the only 2 in the top 10 who didn't score at least 15 PPG's and Draymond has a pretty good excuse for not scoring more next to Steph, Klay and Durant. It's not new to the league. The league has just transformed which positions players are most likely to do it. Either Wiggins has to step up by a lot on the playmaking front, we need to play like the Spurs offensively or you have to go get that guy and I think Fultz and Ball can be that guy. I would bank on either of them well before I would bank on Wiggins being able to do it and I don't think Thibs is gonna turn us into the Spurs offensively any time soon.

That well put Kahns. I get where you are coming from even better now. I'm not dying to get a scoring PG but I wouldn't complain about getting the next Lilliard or whatever either obviously. Are there any other guys in this draft you think could be that guy?

I think Jackson, Dennis Smith and Fox all could be that guy, but right now I'm only confident in Fultz and Ball. The other 3 aren't great shooters which complicates how a defense defends you and if they play off of you I think it's a lot harder to make impactful plays that get your teammates good looks unless you are a Westbrook/Wall level athlete. Frankly I'd want Jackson, but he's too much of a hot head and off-court problem. I'd rather go the safer route with Fultz 1 and then Ball 2 if I get to pick.

[TheFuture]

You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.

The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.

Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.

Kahns do you find the humor in how just a year or 2 ago this board was saying that you didn't have to have a good/great PG to win? the league is different now but part of it is the rule changes part fo it is the insane talent and part is how the game has evolved with guys getting more skilled. Im not completely convinced you HAVE to have a PG be the guy to do it but SOMEONE has to either be added to the roster for that role or someone already on the roster has to come into it. What we still don't know is how the dynamic of Wiggins Town and Lavine works out. those guys could be a deadly group of scorers.

I think the league is generally the same. There are just a lot of really good PG's now. At the end of the day your primary ball handler needs to be able to break down the defense and score the ball or setup teammates. Ricky can setup teammates, but can't score and Wiggins can score, but can't setup teammates off his drives. Whether it's a PG or wing it doesn't matter. All I know is there are a lot more PG's who can do it in the league right now and Fultz and Ball can do it while there are less wings/bigs who can be that primary playmaking guy and I don't think Tatum or Isaac can do it and Jackson is a maybe. So you have Lebron, Harden, Batum, Butler, Horford Giannis and Draymond as the only wings/bigs who averaged 5 APG's or more per game out of the 31 players who managed that feat this year. That's 23% of the top playmakers in the league. Ricky and Draymond are the only 2 in the top 10 who didn't score at least 15 PPG's and Draymond has a pretty good excuse for not scoring more next to Steph, Klay and Durant. It's not new to the league. The league has just transformed which positions players are most likely to do it. Either Wiggins has to step up by a lot on the playmaking front, we need to play like the Spurs offensively or you have to go get that guy and I think Fultz and Ball can be that guy. I would bank on either of them well before I would bank on Wiggins being able to do it and I don't think Thibs is gonna turn us into the Spurs offensively any time soon.

Then if fultz or ball are on the board are you taking them and accepting that we trade rubio or dunn for a noel type deal? What would your plan be?

All of Fultz, Ball, and Smith may be better than Rubio at scoring/creating eventually. I don't think you can honestly make that prediction on defense though.

I think going pg again for that "star" will set us back further. Hell, everyone admits it Is a stacked position. There will be 2 or 3 high quality (relative to other positions) pg players available every FA period - two max. So why invest in a chance in the draft at pg vs. Gambling in other positions and getting the bargain (again relative to other positions) pg in FA?

I may differ from many here, but I'm still super high on LaVine, and moreover Dunn's fit next to him. I fully expect Dunn to become a respectable scorer and LaVine a respectable defender. While Dunn becomes an exceptional defender, and LaVine an exceptional offensive player. That bodes well for the playoffs.

Towns will be at least great.

The weight of moving this franchise moving forward is largely on Wiggins' shoulders. Draft picks or FA signings be damned.

That's my view anyhow.

[TheFuture]

To expand on my disdain for taking a PG at our pick or in the top 3...

We lose value immediately. There is no way around it. Whether that is the pick, Rubio, or Dunn. Everyone and their grandmother knows we are going to be moving one. Hell, even Tyus loses value ( not saying he has much).

I wouldn't say pass up the next magic, cp3, wall, irving etc. for these reasons. I just Firmly believe there isn't such a PG in this draft. I view 8 or so equivalent prospects at the top.
Some of which make a lot more sense for out current roster construction.

If we trade down to acquire a vet and the pick for a pg prospect, then that makes sense because we can then flip a pg to makeup more value. Otherwise I see no realistic possibility of us drafting a pg.

Dunn compliments LaVine and somewhat final 30 game Rubio in the backcourt. I expect all of our signings/picks (3 in total) to be potential compliments to Wiggins and Towns. Combo 2/3 and 3/4 guys.

Rubio, Wiggins, Towns, LaVine, Dieng, Bjelicia, Dunn, TBD (2/3), TBD (3/4) should be the 9 man.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.

The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.

Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.

Won't disagree on your assessment of Wiggins and how far he has to go, but I think he can and will improve. I also think KAT is capable of eventually becoming an elite big man passer. Don't forget, he can put the ball on the floor too.

How many of those ball-dominant point guards you mentioned have won a title by the way?

Well are you title or bust or would you like to make the playoffs first? Curry and Kyrie won the last two titles and the likely 6 out of 8 teams that will advance in these playoffs have dominant PG's (Curry, CP3, Irving, IT, Lowry, Wall). I'm not good with math, but that seems like a large percentage.

I'm all for making the playoffs first. I just don't see how a 20-year old scoring PG helps the cause much when we're already a top 10 offense and bottom 4 defense.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It's also funny how much time we debate the need for a scoring PG versus keeping Rubio when we already have a top 10 offense and bottom 4 defense. Sorry guys, but a 20-year old rookie PG ain't going to help us much in the area we need it most.

I always respect your posts Q and I agree with many of your views. Yet, I cannot recall your exact best draft pick and off season moves youd deem a success. I admit I may have skimmed over you stating such (some threads get LONG).

I am curious as to what you see in recent playoffs vs. What our team currently does well.

What is your acceptable/realistic off season?

Here is my view on the draft - I hate being in the lottery again and absolutely abhor the thought of potty training another 19-year old rookie. KAT, LaVine, and Wiggins have been here for 2 or 3 years and they still all suck on defense. So my first option is to draft the BPA and then trade it for a veteran that can fit what we need most: Defense, toughness, and experience. If that isn't in the cards, then my next option would be to draft and keep Zach Collins, assuming we end up in the most likely draft range of 6-9. I think we can bring him along slowly and he doesn't need to play many minutes next year, unlike our past lottery picks.

Here is my view on free agency - Would love to go all-in on Milsap - max him out. Assuming we can't get him, I like a lot of the other names folks have thrown about: Green, Covington, Tucker, Dudley, Sefolosha....some are RFAs, others are UFAs, and others would require a trade.

[thedoper]

If we win the draft and got Fultz we are set at all levels of our team. We really would just need plug and play shooters and defenders. Any way you skin it our primary ball handler has to hit shots. Like it or not iso ball happens in the playoffs. Fultz upgrades us from middle of the road at point to elite, and makes us a huge threat. Best player in the draft and a can't miss prospect by all accounts. Plus rookie contract, we can still sign the short term player we need.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.

The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.

Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.

Won't disagree on your assessment of Wiggins and how far he has to go, but I think he can and will improve. I also think KAT is capable of eventually becoming an elite big man passer. Don't forget, he can put the ball on the floor too.

How many of those ball-dominant point guards you mentioned have won a title by the way?

Well are you title or bust or would you like to make the playoffs first? Curry and Kyrie won the last two titles and the likely 6 out of 8 teams that will advance in these playoffs have dominant PG's (Curry, CP3, Irving, IT, Lowry, Wall). I'm not good with math, but that seems like a large percentage.

I'm all for making the playoffs first. I just don't see how a 20-year old scoring PG helps the cause much when we're already a top 10 offense and bottom 4 defense.

I'm not relying on the 20 year old PG to get us to the playoffs. I'm relying on him being better than what Dunn gave us last year on the second unit giving us more offensive firepower as a guy who can have the ball in his hands (something we didn't have last year). I think Ricky, Fultz, Dunn, Zach is the backcourt next year and if anyone gets the minutes shaft for a year it might be Fultz or Dunn, but they can both play either guard spot if Zach doesn't come back right or if any of the 4 get injured. I don't think any of these rookies are going to be positive contributors next year so I'm taking the guy that will help us make the playoffs in 2-3-4 years when he's starting to hit his prime. I think people think available playing time = contributor to the winning effort and it doesn't for a majority of rookies. You could take a Jackson or Isaac or Tatum and the playing time would be there, but they won't be consistently helping us win games and get to the playoffs. They'll be inconsistent bench guys like most rookies. So in 2-3-4 years when they are starting to hit their prime guess what? They have to outplay Zach and Andrew to get in the starting lineup.

What rookies this year that went top 10 significantly helped their teams win games? Literally none of them. I think Fultz will be the best player in his prime from this draft and he's the best fit for this team long-term since there aren't any great combo forwards in this draft and we need a playmaker who can actually turn dribble penetration into a functional offense and not be a one trick pony scorer or passer. If I thought Wiggins or Zach could do it I would go with one of the other guys, but they haven't shown the ability to be the dribble penetrators you see on all these playoff teams that are creating good offense from a basic PnR or iso play.

Fultz doesn't help defensively, but most rookies won't either and the improvement has to come from Towns and Wiggins and vets we sign in free agency or it isn't coming next year. At the end of the day how many of these top PG's are also top defenders? CP3. Maybe Wall when he tries and Conley. PG defense isn't needed to have a good defensive team. It's a bonus, but it is far from making a good defensive team. Having a primary ball handler who can break down the defense and score and make plays is needed. I get that we have plenty of scoring and no defense, but having nobody who you can put the ball in their hands and they can either score or make the right play is a problem. Wiggins may become that guy, but why risk it when you can get that guy in this draft? You put the whole franchise on Wiggins becoming a good point forward when you do that versus drafting a guy who has been doing it his whole life.

[Monster]

If you do feel that prospects are generally in the same tier then yeah not taking a PG makes some sense. HOWEVER the Wolves don't have the answer there either and this is coming from an optimist about each one of the young talented PGs on the roster. Let's say you get #1 and Fultz just grades out a bit better than everyone else. It does make sense to take him. Why?

The guy shot over 40% from 3 as a freshman. This team needs shooting.

This team could use another ball handler that can create for themselves and others and hit shots. He has enough length to be a SG.

Lavine may not come back healthy or play heavy minutes right away so there might be minutes to work the guy in.

Fultz has knocks against his defense but he was a freshman guard that averaged 1.3 blocks a game. Not too shabby.

Let's be real about Rubio's trade value. It's not likely he is going to bring back a whole lot even after the way he played down the stretch last year. The Wolves don't HAVE to trade him and if they do regardless they probably get something not super exciting in return. If this team does want to win games Rubio probably is going to be out there playing 30mpg until some other young player steps up their game and beats him out and if that's the case they have a really good problem.

Picking another PG isn't ideal but it's not ridiculous either. If you pick a wing player you may run into problems at some point also. Ideally you draft a PF or a wing or combo forward that can play as a PF or at least a small ball PF. That's the biggest needs on the team with nearly no answers outside of Belly or Wiggins getting stronger.

The best thing that could happen this summer if for the Wolves wherever they are picking to get a top player out of the draft AND they fit in with the rest of the team. That's a lot to ask but it could happen and that guy may even help as a rookie.

Also I think Bleed wins this thread with his wish for the summer.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Khans, You are spilling a lot of ink on a scenario that will almost certainly not happen. As for rookies not contributing much in Year #1, I couldn't agree more. That's why my first option is to trade whoever we pick for someone that is actually a proven NBA player.