Minnesota Sports Forum

I don't think I made my point very clearly. Let me dumb this down a bit. If you think Wiggins is a bust, which some on here do, and Simmons is going to be a great player, What's the point of making the comparison? And I didn't want to single out Cam because he's not the only one, but that was the post I replied to. This whole tangent about being able to compare any player with any other player is valid, but some of us have already made Wiggins comparisons ad nauseum. Why should that be inserted in a Towns/Embiid comparison unless you're trolling?

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't think I made my point very clearly. Let me dumb this down a bit. If you think Wiggins is a bust, which some on here do, and Simmons is going to be a great player, What's the point of making the comparison? And I didn't want to single out Cam because he's not the only one, but that was the post I replied to. This whole tangent about being able to compare any player with any other player is valid, but some of us have already made Wiggins comparisons ad nauseum. Why should that be inserted in a Towns/Embiid comparison unless you're trolling?

If it's just a battle of the big men "unicorns"... sure. I get that.

If we're comparing the two teams... which has been going on for years... a comparison of the other players is valid.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't think I made my point very clearly. Let me dumb this down a bit. If you think Wiggins is a bust, which some on here do, and Simmons is going to be a great player, What's the point of making the comparison? And I didn't want to single out Cam because he's not the only one, but that was the post I replied to. This whole tangent about being able to compare any player with any other player is valid, but some of us have already made Wiggins comparisons ad nauseum. Why should that be inserted in a Towns/Embiid comparison unless you're trolling?

If it's just a battle of the big men "unicorns"... sure. I get that.

If we're comparing the two teams... which has been going on for years... a comparison of the other players is valid.

Okay, let's do it:

Because I believe durability is the best ability, I'll take Towns over Embiid. Embiid is a bigger difference maker at this point, but Towns is out there more. Advantage Towns.

The next two in line would be Butler and Simmons. Neither has proven to be very durable so we will not consider that here. Simmons is a potential triple double every night, but his range is the paint and his free throw shooting makes Wig look like Rick Barry. Today, I'll take Butler but that could change very soon.

So our third according to the board consensus in Wiggins. Who do you put in there for the Sixers? I'm going to say Saric although a case could be made for Reddick or Covington. The advance stats would probably give Saric the edge, but I don't care, Wiggins is easily the better player for today and the future. Advantage Wiggins.

Then let's take a look at Teague vs Reddick. I don't believe Reddick has ever been an all star and Teague has. Teague does more things and still has some near prime years left. You can't discount Redick's shooting because it is huge, but overall Teague is the better player. Just not as consistent. Advantage Teague.

Covington vs Gibson. I think this one is real close. Covington is entering his prime and Gibson has left his. For that reason I would take Covington even though the experience edge goes to Gibson.

Bench vs Bench. This is the biggest advantage in the entire comparison. Edge Sixers.

Overall I think the two squads are pretty comparable today. If both teams are completely healthy I think the Wolves would win a 7 game series. The Sixers have the advantage of playing in the East and a much easier travel schedule. In a series Thibs wouldn't rely on his bench for much, and our starters are better than the Sixers. It would probably go 6 or 7 games. I hope to see this series one day.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't think I made my point very clearly. Let me dumb this down a bit. If you think Wiggins is a bust, which some on here do, and Simmons is going to be a great player, What's the point of making the comparison? And I didn't want to single out Cam because he's not the only one, but that was the post I replied to. This whole tangent about being able to compare any player with any other player is valid, but some of us have already made Wiggins comparisons ad nauseum. Why should that be inserted in a Towns/Embiid comparison unless you're trolling?

If it's just a battle of the big men "unicorns"... sure. I get that.

If we're comparing the two teams... which has been going on for years... a comparison of the other players is valid.

Okay, let's do it:

Because I believe durability is the best ability, I'll take Towns over Embiid. Embiid is a bigger difference maker at this point, but Towns is out there more. Advantage Towns.

The next two in line would be Butler and Simmons. Neither has proven to be very durable so we will not consider that here. Simmons is a potential triple double every night, but his range is the paint and his free throw shooting makes Wig look like Rick Barry. Today, I'll take Butler but that could change very soon.

So our third according to the board consensus in Wiggins. Who do you put in there for the Sixers? I'm going to say Saric although a case could be made for Reddick or Covington. The advance stats would probably give Saric the edge, but I don't care, Wiggins is easily the better player for today and the future. Advantage Wiggins.

Then let's take a look at Teague vs Reddick. I don't believe Reddick has ever been an all star and Teague has. Teague does more things and still has some near prime years left. You can't discount Redick's shooting because it is huge, but overall Teague is the better player. Just not as consistent. Advantage Teague.

Covington vs Gibson. I think this one is real close. Covington is entering his prime and Gibson has left his. For that reason I would take Covington even though the experience edge goes to Gibson.

Bench vs Bench. This is the biggest advantage in the entire comparison. Edge Sixers.

Overall I think the two squads are pretty comparable today. If both teams are completely healthy I think the Wolves would win a 7 game series. The Sixers have the advantage of playing in the East and a much easier travel schedule. In a series Thibs wouldn't rely on his bench for much, and our starters are better than the Sixers. It would probably go 6 or 7 games. I hope to see this series one day.

Cool -- I can't find much fault in your player by player comparisons and judgment. But I look at Embiid, Simmons and Covington as the Sixers top three. So I'd match them to KAT, Butler and Wiggins in that order. Like you, I'd give the short term advantage to Embiid by a narrow margin, but the longer term advantage to KAT. I'd give Butler the shorter term advantage over Simmons, but I'd give Simmons the longer term advantage because of his potential and Butler's age combined with his recent meniscus surgery. I'd actually give Covington a slight short-term nod over Wiggins, but I'd still give Wiggins a big long-term advantage because I haven't given up on Andrew's incredible upside. I'd give Teague the advantage over Redick both short and long term. I'd give Gibson the short-term nod over Saric while giving Saric the big long-term advantage.

So it's pretty close both short and long term. Yet, the Sixers dominated us the other night. And earlier this season they beat us on our home court in spite of not having Covington that game and even though the Sixers played a really sloppy game, looking very much like the young team they are. Is it coaching?

If I could chose one team or the other as my team going forward, I'd have a hard time choosing. For me, that choice comes down to a choice between the KAT/Wiggins duo and the Embiid/Simmons duo. On talent and potential alone, I'd take Embiid and Simmons in a close call. But when you factor in durability, I'd take KAT and Wiggins as my duo to build around. Now if Fultz eventually plays and lives up to his hype, then the Sixers would be my choice, but I can't consider him in the my calculus given his inability to play this entire season because of his shot-effecting injury.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't think I made my point very clearly. Let me dumb this down a bit. If you think Wiggins is a bust, which some on here do, and Simmons is going to be a great player, What's the point of making the comparison? And I didn't want to single out Cam because he's not the only one, but that was the post I replied to. This whole tangent about being able to compare any player with any other player is valid, but some of us have already made Wiggins comparisons ad nauseum. Why should that be inserted in a Towns/Embiid comparison unless you're trolling?

If it's just a battle of the big men "unicorns"... sure. I get that.

If we're comparing the two teams... which has been going on for years... a comparison of the other players is valid.

Okay, let's do it:

Because I believe durability is the best ability, I'll take Towns over Embiid. Embiid is a bigger difference maker at this point, but Towns is out there more. Advantage Towns.

The next two in line would be Butler and Simmons. Neither has proven to be very durable so we will not consider that here. Simmons is a potential triple double every night, but his range is the paint and his free throw shooting makes Wig look like Rick Barry. Today, I'll take Butler but that could change very soon.

So our third according to the board consensus in Wiggins. Who do you put in there for the Sixers? I'm going to say Saric although a case could be made for Reddick or Covington. The advance stats would probably give Saric the edge, but I don't care, Wiggins is easily the better player for today and the future. Advantage Wiggins.

Then let's take a look at Teague vs Reddick. I don't believe Reddick has ever been an all star and Teague has. Teague does more things and still has some near prime years left. You can't discount Redick's shooting because it is huge, but overall Teague is the better player. Just not as consistent. Advantage Teague.

Covington vs Gibson. I think this one is real close. Covington is entering his prime and Gibson has left his. For that reason I would take Covington even though the experience edge goes to Gibson.

Bench vs Bench. This is the biggest advantage in the entire comparison. Edge Sixers.

Overall I think the two squads are pretty comparable today. If both teams are completely healthy I think the Wolves would win a 7 game series. The Sixers have the advantage of playing in the East and a much easier travel schedule. In a series Thibs wouldn't rely on his bench for much, and our starters are better than the Sixers. It would probably go 6 or 7 games. I hope to see this series one day.

We'd all be ecstatic if that series happened someday.

From podcasts and articles and stuff... I think the national consensus would probably put the 76ers ahead of the Wolves a bit right now. I don't think an argument against it is outrageous though. The Wolves youngest assets have been ridiculously durable thus far. Hopefully, that continues.

On a side note, I just saw that Fultz is returning tonight? Is his inclusion a good thing for the 76ers? Or the Wolves?

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't think I made my point very clearly. Let me dumb this down a bit. If you think Wiggins is a bust, which some on here do, and Simmons is going to be a great player, What's the point of making the comparison? And I didn't want to single out Cam because he's not the only one, but that was the post I replied to. This whole tangent about being able to compare any player with any other player is valid, but some of us have already made Wiggins comparisons ad nauseum. Why should that be inserted in a Towns/Embiid comparison unless you're trolling?

If it's just a battle of the big men "unicorns"... sure. I get that.

If we're comparing the two teams... which has been going on for years... a comparison of the other players is valid.

Okay, let's do it:

Because I believe durability is the best ability, I'll take Towns over Embiid. Embiid is a bigger difference maker at this point, but Towns is out there more. Advantage Towns.

The next two in line would be Butler and Simmons. Neither has proven to be very durable so we will not consider that here. Simmons is a potential triple double every night, but his range is the paint and his free throw shooting makes Wig look like Rick Barry. Today, I'll take Butler but that could change very soon.

So our third according to the board consensus in Wiggins. Who do you put in there for the Sixers? I'm going to say Saric although a case could be made for Reddick or Covington. The advance stats would probably give Saric the edge, but I don't care, Wiggins is easily the better player for today and the future. Advantage Wiggins.

Then let's take a look at Teague vs Reddick. I don't believe Reddick has ever been an all star and Teague has. Teague does more things and still has some near prime years left. You can't discount Redick's shooting because it is huge, but overall Teague is the better player. Just not as consistent. Advantage Teague.

Covington vs Gibson. I think this one is real close. Covington is entering his prime and Gibson has left his. For that reason I would take Covington even though the experience edge goes to Gibson.

Bench vs Bench. This is the biggest advantage in the entire comparison. Edge Sixers.

Overall I think the two squads are pretty comparable today. If both teams are completely healthy I think the Wolves would win a 7 game series. The Sixers have the advantage of playing in the East and a much easier travel schedule. In a series Thibs wouldn't rely on his bench for much, and our starters are better than the Sixers. It would probably go 6 or 7 games. I hope to see this series one day.

Cool -- I can't find much fault in your player by player comparisons and judgment. But I look at Embiid, Simmons and Covington as the Sixers top three. So I'd match them to KAT, Butler and Wiggins in that order. Like you, I'd give the short term advantage to Embiid by a narrow margin, but the longer term advantage to KAT. I'd give Butler the shorter term advantage over Simmons, but I'd give Simmons the longer term advantage because of his potential and Butler's age combined with his recent meniscus surgery. I'd actually give Covington a slight short-term nod over Wiggins, but I'd still give Wiggins a big long-term advantage because I haven't given up on Andrew's incredible upside. I'd give Teague the advantage over Redick both short and long term. I'd give Gibson the short-term nod over Saric while giving Saric the big long-term advantage.

So it's pretty close both short and long term. Yet, the Sixers dominated us the other night. And earlier this season they beat us on our home court in spite of not having Covington that game and even though the Sixers played a really sloppy game, looking very much like the young team they are. Is it coaching?

If I could chose one team or the other as my team going forward, I'd have a hard time choosing. For me, that choice comes down to a choice between the KAT/Wiggins duo and the Embiid/Simmons duo. On talent and potential alone, I'd take Embiid and Simmons in a close call. But when you factor in durability, I'd take KAT and Wiggins as my duo to build around. Now if Fultz eventually plays and lives up to his hype, then the Sixers would be my choice, but I can't consider him in the my calculus given his inability to play this entire season because of his shot-effecting injury.

I got you Lip, but the Wolves had some big disadvantages the other night. Playing back to back, getting in late, not having Butler.........you could almost see that loss coming. Wiggins is a better player than Covington right now. He averaged almost 24 points a game last year. Now he's locking guys down - I really don't think it's close.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't think I made my point very clearly. Let me dumb this down a bit. If you think Wiggins is a bust, which some on here do, and Simmons is going to be a great player, What's the point of making the comparison? And I didn't want to single out Cam because he's not the only one, but that was the post I replied to. This whole tangent about being able to compare any player with any other player is valid, but some of us have already made Wiggins comparisons ad nauseum. Why should that be inserted in a Towns/Embiid comparison unless you're trolling?

If it's just a battle of the big men "unicorns"... sure. I get that.

If we're comparing the two teams... which has been going on for years... a comparison of the other players is valid.

Okay, let's do it:

Because I believe durability is the best ability, I'll take Towns over Embiid. Embiid is a bigger difference maker at this point, but Towns is out there more. Advantage Towns.

The next two in line would be Butler and Simmons. Neither has proven to be very durable so we will not consider that here. Simmons is a potential triple double every night, but his range is the paint and his free throw shooting makes Wig look like Rick Barry. Today, I'll take Butler but that could change very soon.

So our third according to the board consensus in Wiggins. Who do you put in there for the Sixers? I'm going to say Saric although a case could be made for Reddick or Covington. The advance stats would probably give Saric the edge, but I don't care, Wiggins is easily the better player for today and the future. Advantage Wiggins.

Then let's take a look at Teague vs Reddick. I don't believe Reddick has ever been an all star and Teague has. Teague does more things and still has some near prime years left. You can't discount Redick's shooting because it is huge, but overall Teague is the better player. Just not as consistent. Advantage Teague.

Covington vs Gibson. I think this one is real close. Covington is entering his prime and Gibson has left his. For that reason I would take Covington even though the experience edge goes to Gibson.

Bench vs Bench. This is the biggest advantage in the entire comparison. Edge Sixers.

Overall I think the two squads are pretty comparable today. If both teams are completely healthy I think the Wolves would win a 7 game series. The Sixers have the advantage of playing in the East and a much easier travel schedule. In a series Thibs wouldn't rely on his bench for much, and our starters are better than the Sixers. It would probably go 6 or 7 games. I hope to see this series one day.

We'd all be ecstatic if that series happened someday.

From podcasts and articles and stuff... I think the national consensus would probably put the 76ers ahead of the Wolves a bit right now. I don't think an argument against it is outrageous though. The Wolves youngest assets have been ridiculously durable thus far. Hopefully, that continues.

On a side note, I just saw that Fultz is returning tonight? Is his inclusion a good thing for the 76ers? Or the Wolves?

For the young man's sake I hope things go well for him. But as we all know too well, top 5 picks don't always pan out. He's a big question mark for sure.

Sometimes I think Covington's shooting gets a bit overrated at times. He is shooting 37.7% from 3 this year which is a solid number. What makes it a bit more impressive is that he isn't fearing on corner 3's he takes 10.6% of his 3's there and hits 39% of them. The only other shots he hits at a high percentage is at the rim. Some of this is his skill set and some is by design. If he is your 3rd best player...it may not be good but ideally you have him as a REALLY good compliment to other guys. He is a probably a better version of Ariza. He is basically the blueprint of the top level 3 and D type. Probably the guy to compare him to in some ways would be Belly but Belly has more to his game with an ability to be a playmaker. Covington is going to be a valuable player for a long time and with his contract being front loads he will have a bunch a value all the way around. So even if yo some extent there is some small element of him being a bit overrated at times he obviously has a lot of value. It would be amazing to have a guy like him or Danny Green or Ariza etc on the Wolves. Hopefully we can develop draft or sign a guy. None of those guys were tops draft picks.

One positive that the Sixers has from their process was finding a couple worthwhile players from all the guys they brought in. Covington is one of those guys and because they had a bunch of cap space they are going to end up with a good player for quite a while for a reasonable price. If they keep McConnell around he is a solid player also. They played a bunch of guys and therefore probably have a rep of a team that will play guys. So this season they ended up with buyout guys Bellineli (they also had a need at the right time) and Illyasova (played there before) maybe in part because of that culture.

Imo, biggest difference between the 2 club's is vision.

6ers have it and the wolves really don't.

6ers took a core of simmons and embiid and surrounded them with complementary players like reddick and continued to add in guys like bellinelli. They are building around them.

The wolves are just getting the best players they can regardless of fit. They haven't really chosen to build around kat and wiggins, they didn't get anyone that would actually help their game; theres alot of redundancy on this club and the hope is for them to figure it out without help from thibs.

Basically the 6ers are building around embiid and Simmons while the wolves are building around thibs.

crazy-canuck wrote:Imo, biggest difference between the 2 club's is vision.

6ers have it and the wolves really don't.

6ers took a core of simmons and embiid and surrounded them with complementary players like reddick and continued to add in guys like bellinelli. They are building around them.

The wolves are just getting the best players they can regardless of fit. They haven't really chosen to build around kat and wiggins, they didn't get anyone that would actually help their game; theres alot of redundancy on this club and the hope is for them to figure it out without help from thibs.

Basically the 6ers are building around embiid and Simmons while the wolves are building around thibs.

The Sixers vision falls apart of Embiid can't play. The Wolves vision may take some time as they just added Butler this season.