monsterpile wrote:I haven't read the thread but my guess is one thing that will be lost is how well the Wolves played D in most of this game after not being good at that end for a few games. IMO they lost this game throwing away some possessions.
I didn't see the game, but it's good to hear you saw some improvement on the defensive end. I think Lip was at the game and noted the same thing in his mini game report. Unfortunately, again they weren't able to get any stops at the end when they were trying to hold the lead...same old sad story.
It wasn't getting stops like I said they literally pissed away some possessions. Rubio threw a pass to the camera guys on the baseline...there were others every starter other than maybe Dieng contributed a bad play like that or a bad shot.
monsterpile wrote:I haven't read the thread but my guess is one thing that will be lost is how well the Wolves played D in most of this game after not being good at that end for a few games. IMO they lost this game throwing away some possessions.
I didn't see the game, but it's good to hear you saw some improvement on the defensive end. I think Lip was at the game and noted the same thing in his mini game report. Unfortunately, again they weren't able to get any stops at the end when they were trying to hold the lead...same old sad story.
It wasn't getting stops like I said they literally pissed away some possessions. Rubio threw a pass to the camera guys on the baseline...there were others every starter other than maybe Dieng contributed a bad play like that or a bad shot.
Yeah, I get that our offense broke down at the end of the game...it looks like we were stuck on 92 for the last 3 1/2 minutes of the game. But reports I heard were that the defense was poor at the end of the game too, after playing good defense the rest of the game...and the game log seems to support this. While we went scoreless the final 3 1/2 minutes, the Jazz scored 11 points in the final 3 minutes. That's a 44-point quarter pace, which doesn't sound much like getting stops. We had a 9-point lead with just over 3 minutes to go...looks like if we had been effective at all on either offense or defense, we would have won this game.
monsterpile wrote:I haven't read the thread but my guess is one thing that will be lost is how well the Wolves played D in most of this game after not being good at that end for a few games. IMO they lost this game throwing away some possessions.
I didn't see the game, but it's good to hear you saw some improvement on the defensive end. I think Lip was at the game and noted the same thing in his mini game report. Unfortunately, again they weren't able to get any stops at the end when they were trying to hold the lead...same old sad story.
It wasn't getting stops like I said they literally pissed away some possessions. Rubio threw a pass to the camera guys on the baseline...there were others every starter other than maybe Dieng contributed a bad play like that or a bad shot.
Yeah, I get that our offense broke down at the end of the game...it looks like we were stuck on 92 for the last 3 1/2 minutes of the game. But reports I heard were that the defense was poor at the end of the game too, after playing good defense the rest of the game...and the game log seems to support this. While we went scoreless the final 3 1/2 minutes, the Jazz scored 11 points in the final 3 minutes. That's a 44-point quarter pace, which doesn't sound much like getting stops. We had a 9-point lead with just over 3 minutes to go...looks like if we had been effective at all on either offense or defense, we would have won this game.
Towns was defensively responsible for 9 of their final 11 points. He couldn't stick with Favors for the first 7 of those and gave up the game winning putback to Gobert because he didn't box out. Combine that with complete offensive incompetence and there's the run to close out the game.
Here is a breakdown of the Utah possessions, starting at 3:11 where they closed the game to 92-85:
92-85 - LaVine beat by Ingles on a backdoor cut. KAT had to come help, otherwise it would have been a layup for Ingles. Ingles hits Favors, who was on the weak side baseline, for the easy dunk. Wiggins tried to sag down off of Hayward but didn't see it in time. He (correctly in my opinion) was spaced out against Hayward and there was no way he could get down there on time. Who was at fault? Lavine. You simply can't get beat back door by Joe freakin' Ingles! KAT had to come off Favors on that play.
92-87 - Hayward and Favors run pick and roll. KAT plays it to contain Hayward with Wiggins trailing. Since Hayward kept dribbling toward the hoop, KAT stayed on him. Favors hung back at around the top of the circle and Hayward kicked it back to him for an open jumper. Wiggins was late on the contest. Who was at fault? Wiggins. We've seen this movie before. KAT is fully capable of switching onto guys. Wiggins got caught in no man's land instead of making sure he aggressively switched back to Favors.
92-90 - Hayward and Gobert run pick and roll. Gobert sets a good pick and Dieng aggressively comes out on Hayward to prevent the open jumper. Gobert immediately rolls to the rim. Wiggins is trailing too much to catch up and with Hill and Ingles space out beyond the arc on the weak side, Rubio and LaVine weren't in a position to drop down. KAT had to come off Favors, who was in the strong side corner because he saw Gobert rim-running for what would have been an easy dunk if Hayward hit him. Instead, Hayward shoveled it to Favors, who hit the open corner 3. Who was at fault? Eh, tough play, kinda have to tip your cap to Utah and Favors on this one. If you want anyone on Utah shooting a 3, it's Favors. KAT made the right percentage move by preventing a Gobert dunk. Wiggins deserves some blame for not trailing harder off the screen and sinking down to cover off on Gobert, which would have allowed KAT to stay home on Favors.
92-92- George Hill goes for a baseline drive on Rubio and Rubio gets called for a blocking foul. Utah was in the bonus and Hill made both FTs. Who was at Fault? Rubio. Rubio was staying with Hill, but it looked like he reached to try to poke the ball away on the drive and that put him slightly out of position. When he tried to recover to get back in front of Hill, he fouled him. He should have just moved his feet!
94-92 - Gobert sets a downscreen on KAT, who is guarding Favors. Dieng and KAT just switch and Dieng picks up Favors, who sets a pick on Rubio in a high-pick-and-roll with Hill. Dieng does a great job containing Hill's drive and Rubio does a good job recovering. Hill dumps it off to Favors, who this time instead of staying back rolled to the middle of the lane. Dieng is able to contest Favors' push shot in the lane. On the weak side of the play, Gobert is sitting on the baseline and KAT is watching the play unfold. As Favors' shot goes up, Gobert slips in underneath KAT along the baseline and has perfect position to put back Favors' miss. Who was at fault? KAT. Since Gorgui and Rubio played the PnR well, KAT was in perfect position to ensure that he found Gobert when the shot went up and put a body on him. He was literally between him and the basket as the play was unfolding. But he simply lost sight of him and didn't stay connected.
I think it's always hard to figure out defensive breakdowns in real time, so I find it instructional (if not masochistic) to go back and "break down the tape" as they say.
So Khans is right that KAT's guy did most of the damage, but I can really only blame KAT for one of those baskets outright. And it was the one Rudy Gobert scored to seal the win.
Q12543 wrote:Here is a breakdown of the Utah possessions, starting at 3:11 where they closed the game to 92-85:
92-85 - LaVine beat by Ingles on a backdoor cut. KAT had to come help, otherwise it would have been a layup for Ingles. Ingles hits Favors, who was on the weak side baseline, for the easy dunk. Wiggins tried to sag down off of Hayward but didn't see it in time. He (correctly in my opinion) was spaced out against Hayward and there was no way he could get down there on time. Who was at fault? Lavine. You simply can't get beat back door by Joe freakin' Ingles! KAT had to come off Favors on that play.
92-87 - Hayward and Favors run pick and roll. KAT plays it to contain Hayward with Wiggins trailing. Since Hayward kept dribbling toward the hoop, KAT stayed on him. Favors hung back at around the top of the circle and Hayward kicked it back to him for an open jumper. Wiggins was late on the contest. Who was at fault? Wiggins. We've seen this movie before. KAT is fully capable of switching onto guys. Wiggins got caught in no man's land instead of making sure he aggressively switched back to Favors.
92-90 - Hayward and Gobert run pick and roll. Gobert sets a good pick and Dieng aggressively comes out on Hayward to prevent the open jumper. Gobert immediately rolls to the rim. Wiggins is trailing too much to catch up and with Hill and Ingles space out beyond the arc on the weak side, Rubio and LaVine weren't in a position to drop down. KAT had to come off Favors, who was in the strong side corner because he saw Gobert rim-running for what would have been an easy dunk if Hayward hit him. Instead, Hayward shoveled it to Favors, who hit the open corner 3. Who was at fault? Eh, tough play, kinda have to tip your cap to Utah and Favors on this one. If you want anyone on Utah shooting a 3, it's Favors. KAT made the right percentage move by preventing a Gobert dunk. Wiggins deserves some blame for not trailing harder off the screen and sinking down to cover off on Gobert, which would have allowed KAT to stay home on Favors.
92-92- George Hill goes for a baseline drive on Rubio and Rubio gets called for a blocking foul. Utah was in the bonus and Hill made both FTs. Who was at Fault? Rubio. Rubio was staying with Hill, but it looked like he reached to try to poke the ball away on the drive and that put him slightly out of position. When he tried to recover to get back in front of Hill, he fouled him. He should have just moved his feet!
94-92 - Gobert sets a downscreen on KAT, who is guarding Favors. Dieng and KAT just switch and Dieng picks up Favors, who sets a pick on Rubio in a high-pick-and-roll with Hill. Dieng does a great job containing Hill's drive and Rubio does a good job recovering. Hill dumps it off to Favors, who this time instead of staying back rolled to the middle of the lane. Dieng is able to contest Favors' push shot in the lane. On the weak side of the play, Gobert is sitting on the baseline and KAT is watching the play unfold. As Favors' shot goes up, Gobert slips in underneath KAT along the baseline and has perfect position to put back Favors' miss. Who was at fault? KAT. Since Gorgui and Rubio played the PnR well, KAT was in perfect position to ensure that he found Gobert when the shot went up and put a body on him. He was literally between him and the basket as the play was unfolding. But he simply lost sight of him and didn't stay connected.
I think it's always hard to figure out defensive breakdowns in real time, so I find it instructional (if not masochistic) to go back and "break down the tape" as they say.
So Khans is right that KAT's guy did most of the damage, but I can really only blame KAT for one of those baskets outright. And it was the one Rudy Gobert scored to seal the win.
Excellent analysis, Q. Thanks for the breakdown. I clearly remember the Rubio miscue and agree he made a bad mental error on that one. It was an example of what Thibs has described as taking ill-advised risks defensively.
On the offensive end I think KAT has been unfairly criticized for not passing in many instances when guys aren't moving and cutting. LaVine is the only guy who moves well without the ball on this team.
Q12543 wrote:Here is a breakdown of the Utah possessions, starting at 3:11 where they closed the game to 92-85:
92-85 - LaVine beat by Ingles on a backdoor cut. KAT had to come help, otherwise it would have been a layup for Ingles. Ingles hits Favors, who was on the weak side baseline, for the easy dunk. Wiggins tried to sag down off of Hayward but didn't see it in time. He (correctly in my opinion) was spaced out against Hayward and there was no way he could get down there on time. Who was at fault? Lavine. You simply can't get beat back door by Joe freakin' Ingles! KAT had to come off Favors on that play.
92-87 - Hayward and Favors run pick and roll. KAT plays it to contain Hayward with Wiggins trailing. Since Hayward kept dribbling toward the hoop, KAT stayed on him. Favors hung back at around the top of the circle and Hayward kicked it back to him for an open jumper. Wiggins was late on the contest. Who was at fault? Wiggins. We've seen this movie before. KAT is fully capable of switching onto guys. Wiggins got caught in no man's land instead of making sure he aggressively switched back to Favors.
92-90 - Hayward and Gobert run pick and roll. Gobert sets a good pick and Dieng aggressively comes out on Hayward to prevent the open jumper. Gobert immediately rolls to the rim. Wiggins is trailing too much to catch up and with Hill and Ingles space out beyond the arc on the weak side, Rubio and LaVine weren't in a position to drop down. KAT had to come off Favors, who was in the strong side corner because he saw Gobert rim-running for what would have been an easy dunk if Hayward hit him. Instead, Hayward shoveled it to Favors, who hit the open corner 3. Who was at fault? Eh, tough play, kinda have to tip your cap to Utah and Favors on this one. If you want anyone on Utah shooting a 3, it's Favors. KAT made the right percentage move by preventing a Gobert dunk. Wiggins deserves some blame for not trailing harder off the screen and sinking down to cover off on Gobert, which would have allowed KAT to stay home on Favors.
92-92- George Hill goes for a baseline drive on Rubio and Rubio gets called for a blocking foul. Utah was in the bonus and Hill made both FTs. Who was at Fault? Rubio. Rubio was staying with Hill, but it looked like he reached to try to poke the ball away on the drive and that put him slightly out of position. When he tried to recover to get back in front of Hill, he fouled him. He should have just moved his feet!
94-92 - Gobert sets a downscreen on KAT, who is guarding Favors. Dieng and KAT just switch and Dieng picks up Favors, who sets a pick on Rubio in a high-pick-and-roll with Hill. Dieng does a great job containing Hill's drive and Rubio does a good job recovering. Hill dumps it off to Favors, who this time instead of staying back rolled to the middle of the lane. Dieng is able to contest Favors' push shot in the lane. On the weak side of the play, Gobert is sitting on the baseline and KAT is watching the play unfold. As Favors' shot goes up, Gobert slips in underneath KAT along the baseline and has perfect position to put back Favors' miss. Who was at fault? KAT. Since Gorgui and Rubio played the PnR well, KAT was in perfect position to ensure that he found Gobert when the shot went up and put a body on him. He was literally between him and the basket as the play was unfolding. But he simply lost sight of him and didn't stay connected.
I think it's always hard to figure out defensive breakdowns in real time, so I find it instructional (if not masochistic) to go back and "break down the tape" as they say.
So Khans is right that KAT's guy did most of the damage, but I can really only blame KAT for one of those baskets outright. And it was the one Rudy Gobert scored to seal the win.
This is great analysis, Q...especially helpful because I didn't see the game. Looks like there was plenty of blame to spread around in this latest disaster...teamwork and sharing at its very best :(
monsterpile wrote:I haven't read the thread but my guess is one thing that will be lost is how well the Wolves played D in most of this game after not being good at that end for a few games. IMO they lost this game throwing away some possessions.
I didn't see the game, but it's good to hear you saw some improvement on the defensive end. I think Lip was at the game and noted the same thing in his mini game report. Unfortunately, again they weren't able to get any stops at the end when they were trying to hold the lead...same old sad story.
It wasn't getting stops like I said they literally pissed away some possessions. Rubio threw a pass to the camera guys on the baseline...there were others every starter other than maybe Dieng contributed a bad play like that or a bad shot.
Absolutely right, Monster. It was pissing away possessions.
Q12543 wrote:Here is a breakdown of the Utah possessions, starting at 3:11 where they closed the game to 92-85:
92-85 - LaVine beat by Ingles on a backdoor cut. KAT had to come help, otherwise it would have been a layup for Ingles. Ingles hits Favors, who was on the weak side baseline, for the easy dunk. Wiggins tried to sag down off of Hayward but didn't see it in time. He (correctly in my opinion) was spaced out against Hayward and there was no way he could get down there on time. Who was at fault? Lavine. You simply can't get beat back door by Joe freakin' Ingles! KAT had to come off Favors on that play.
92-87 - Hayward and Favors run pick and roll. KAT plays it to contain Hayward with Wiggins trailing. Since Hayward kept dribbling toward the hoop, KAT stayed on him. Favors hung back at around the top of the circle and Hayward kicked it back to him for an open jumper. Wiggins was late on the contest. Who was at fault? Wiggins. We've seen this movie before. KAT is fully capable of switching onto guys. Wiggins got caught in no man's land instead of making sure he aggressively switched back to Favors.
92-90 - Hayward and Gobert run pick and roll. Gobert sets a good pick and Dieng aggressively comes out on Hayward to prevent the open jumper. Gobert immediately rolls to the rim. Wiggins is trailing too much to catch up and with Hill and Ingles space out beyond the arc on the weak side, Rubio and LaVine weren't in a position to drop down. KAT had to come off Favors, who was in the strong side corner because he saw Gobert rim-running for what would have been an easy dunk if Hayward hit him. Instead, Hayward shoveled it to Favors, who hit the open corner 3. Who was at fault? Eh, tough play, kinda have to tip your cap to Utah and Favors on this one. If you want anyone on Utah shooting a 3, it's Favors. KAT made the right percentage move by preventing a Gobert dunk. Wiggins deserves some blame for not trailing harder off the screen and sinking down to cover off on Gobert, which would have allowed KAT to stay home on Favors.
92-92- George Hill goes for a baseline drive on Rubio and Rubio gets called for a blocking foul. Utah was in the bonus and Hill made both FTs. Who was at Fault? Rubio. Rubio was staying with Hill, but it looked like he reached to try to poke the ball away on the drive and that put him slightly out of position. When he tried to recover to get back in front of Hill, he fouled him. He should have just moved his feet!
94-92 - Gobert sets a downscreen on KAT, who is guarding Favors. Dieng and KAT just switch and Dieng picks up Favors, who sets a pick on Rubio in a high-pick-and-roll with Hill. Dieng does a great job containing Hill's drive and Rubio does a good job recovering. Hill dumps it off to Favors, who this time instead of staying back rolled to the middle of the lane. Dieng is able to contest Favors' push shot in the lane. On the weak side of the play, Gobert is sitting on the baseline and KAT is watching the play unfold. As Favors' shot goes up, Gobert slips in underneath KAT along the baseline and has perfect position to put back Favors' miss. Who was at fault? KAT. Since Gorgui and Rubio played the PnR well, KAT was in perfect position to ensure that he found Gobert when the shot went up and put a body on him. He was literally between him and the basket as the play was unfolding. But he simply lost sight of him and didn't stay connected.
I think it's always hard to figure out defensive breakdowns in real time, so I find it instructional (if not masochistic) to go back and "break down the tape" as they say.
So Khans is right that KAT's guy did most of the damage, but I can really only blame KAT for one of those baskets outright. And it was the one Rudy Gobert scored to seal the win.
This is great analysis, Q...especially helpful because I didn't see the game. Looks like there was plenty of blame to spread around in this latest disaster...teamwork and sharing at its very best :(
The more I watch the more I see Thibs' point. He keeps talking about the failure of the players to stay connected to one another and play as a coordinated unit. On the offensive end, watching TV you see KAT holding the ball in the post and then taking the ball to the hole in traffic. But in person you see that often (though not always) he simply has no clear passing target because except for Zach no one is moving well without the ball. On the defensive end, watching TV you'll often see a Wolves player seemingly beat by the guy he's guarding, but in person you see the main problem as poor help defensive from teammates.
