PorkChop wrote:What can we realistically get for a guy on the wrong side of his basketball 30's? He's also been the worst rotational player on this team this year. I don't see how we pull the wool over another teams eyes for more than a 2nd rounder or an equally flawed player which at this point would be subtraction by addition.
Yep.
As I've noted, I wouldn't count on much in return. I see this as more of a "do right by the veterans and let them move on" kind of deal we've seen as recently as last season... multiple times.
PorkChop wrote:What can we realistically get for a guy on the wrong side of his basketball 30's? He's also been the worst rotational player on this team this year. I don't see how we pull the wool over another teams eyes for more than a 2nd rounder or an equally flawed player which at this point would be subtraction by addition.
Yep.
As I've noted, I wouldn't count on much in return. I see this as more of a "do right by the veterans and let them move on" kind of deal we've seen as recently as last season... multiple times.
I largely agree, although I don't think it's out of the question that a contender might give us a late first round pick for Martin...a pick in the upper 20s isn't much to give up, and having a shooter on the bench might be attractive to a contender.
PorkChop wrote:What can we realistically get for a guy on the wrong side of his basketball 30's? He's also been the worst rotational player on this team this year. I don't see how we pull the wool over another teams eyes for more than a 2nd rounder or an equally flawed player which at this point would be subtraction by addition.
Yep.
As I've noted, I wouldn't count on much in return. I see this as more of a "do right by the veterans and let them move on" kind of deal we've seen as recently as last season... multiple times.
I largely agree, although I don't think it's out of the question that a contender might give us a late first round pick for Martin...a pick in the upper 20s isn't much to give up, and having a shooter on the bench might be attractive to a contender.
Maybe... but with the skyrocketing salaries... four years of virtually anybody for $7 or $8M has become more attractive than ever before.
I absolutely hate the idea of Martin and Payne for Morris. He's a dick, and I'd rather take my chances on developing a younger Adreian Payne. Payne can be a bonehead at times, but we doesn't have many NBA minutes under his belt yet and we're seeing signs of improvement. I think he's a better shooter and rebounder than Morris, and arguably a better defender...and a much better clubhouse guy. I don't want this knucklehead anywhere near Target Center!
longstrangetrip wrote:I absolutely hate the idea of Martin and Payne for Morris. He's a dick, and I'd rather take my chances on developing a younger Adreian Payne. Payne can be a bonehead at times, but we doesn't have many NBA minutes under his belt yet and we're seeing signs of improvement. I think he's a better shooter and rebounder than Morris, and arguably a better defender...and a much better clubhouse guy. I don't want this knucklehead anywhere near Target Center!
Yes. This year Markieff Morris is an asshole... AND a lousy basketball player.
Take the emerging Morris from a year or two ago... and the situation becomes murkier. But I still think the stench with this guy is too risky when he's yet to take any real responsibility for any of it.
Did you see the latest? The Suns want him to apologize to Hornacek and his teammates. Apparently, he assumed he did with his generic apology on Twitter.
I'd absolutely take Markieff here for Martin and Payne. If this locker room couldn't keep a guy whom we would have ALL wanted prior to these shenanigans in check, then there's no point in having "mentors" on this team. We know what he can do when he plays well. Why scare yourself away from that? As I've always preached here, if we keep losing we'll turn anyone into a disgruntled moron who causes trouble. Winning will solve a lot of problems going forward, and Morris can help a lot more than someone like Martin or Payne.
Back to Martin, nobody will give us good value for a guy on a losing team who doesn't play. They'll just assume we'll do what we were rumored to do a year ago, which was buy him out and then you can give him a vet min deal no strings attached.
WildWolf2813 wrote:I'd absolutely take Markieff here for Martin and Payne. If this locker room couldn't keep a guy whom we would have ALL wanted prior to these shenanigans in check, then there's no point in having "mentors" on this team. We know what he can do when he plays well. Why scare yourself away from that? As I've always preached here, if we keep losing we'll turn anyone into a disgruntled moron who causes trouble. Winning will solve a lot of problems going forward, and Morris can help a lot more than someone like Martin or Payne.
Back to Martin, nobody will give us good value for a guy on a losing team who doesn't play. They'll just assume we'll do what we were rumored to do a year ago, which was buy him out and then you can give him a vet min deal no strings attached.
I think being a "mentor" to a 20 year old is a lot different than being a "mentor" to a 26-year-old rapidly declining mercurial player who has yet to take any accountability for his on/off court antics or his poor play this season.
Especially, since that guy already got paid and can't do anything about it at this point for another 3 seasons. If he keeps getting rewarded for his behavior... why would he change it?
It's like Detroit rewarding Josh Smith with $54M for trying to turn himself into a three point shooter... then wondering why he won't stop shooting three pointers after he got paid.
WildWolf2813 wrote:I'd absolutely take Markieff here for Martin and Payne. If this locker room couldn't keep a guy whom we would have ALL wanted prior to these shenanigans in check, then there's no point in having "mentors" on this team. We know what he can do when he plays well. Why scare yourself away from that? As I've always preached here, if we keep losing we'll turn anyone into a disgruntled moron who causes trouble. Winning will solve a lot of problems going forward, and Morris can help a lot more than someone like Martin or Payne.
Back to Martin, nobody will give us good value for a guy on a losing team who doesn't play. They'll just assume we'll do what we were rumored to do a year ago, which was buy him out and then you can give him a vet min deal no strings attached.
I think being a "mentor" to a 20 year old is a lot different than being a "mentor" to a 26-year-old rapidly declining mercurial player who has yet to take any accountability for his on/off court antics or his poor play this season.
Especially, since that guy already got paid and can't do anything about it at this point for another 3 seasons. If he keeps getting rewarded for his behavior... why would he change it?
It's like Detroit rewarding Josh Smith with $54M for trying to turn himself into a three point shooter... then wondering why he won't stop shooting three pointers after he got paid.
It's not about mentoring. It's about fostering an environment where even a malcontent can function. The only way they can is by winning games, and a motivated Markieff Morris can help big time.
And given how God awful this franchise is, I'm not sure Markieff would treat a trade here as a reward, but more as a wake-up call to get his stuff together.
I want no part of Morris. The dude is throwing a hissy fit because they traded his brother because the two of them cost too much for the trouble they cause. I don't care how talented he is. He's not like Cousins who's emotional flaws are in-game related. Stuff is starting to happen off the court and I'm out when that happens. He's not worth the drama. Flip Martin for whatever. At this point who cares? We have a boatload of cash in the off season to address any issues. He's not playing at all. Our rotation is already full. We don't necessarily need a player back for Martin.
