The concerning Rubio

[TheGrey08]

Durant goes down, they have Westbrook and Ibaka. Rubio goes down and there's Pek and Martin. Certainly u see the difference . Ricky healthy and this team is maybe a .500 ball club. Those guys stay healthy and their vying for a championship. I can't agree with that comparison.
And when I say maybe I mean it's never happened before.

I'm not talking about the supporting cast, only the impact an individual player has on his team. And win/loss record depending on whether a player is in the lineup or not is the ultimate way to measure that, And I'll challenge anyone to name a team that falls apart as much as the Wolves do when Rubio is out. That's how I define valuable.

When the supporting cast around u is that bad than its easier to make a difference.
By your logic Bradley Beal is the most important player to his team in the league.

I don't think you are getting it. A players value to their team is reduced the better the other players on the team are. When Lebron was in Cleveland by himself he was the most valuable player in the league hands down. Now he has a lot more help so his value isn't as high as it once was. Most valuable does not translate into best player. That's what always pissed me off about the MVP awards b/c half the time they give it to the best player even when they aren't the most valuable to their team. Look at KG back in the day. He should have had 3-4 MVPs easily b/c he did so much for the team.

[MikkeMan]

When the supporting cast around u is that bad than its easier to make a difference. By your logic Bradley Beal is the most important player to his team in the league.

Washington record without Beal is this season 9 wins 7 losses. Clearly worse than with him but hardly comparable what Timberwolves have without Rubio.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I don't know, some guys just never become good shooters, no matter how many reps they take. Some are able to adjust their mechanics, take the reps, and not revert back to old habits. Ricky is on a journey right now and it's hard to know where he'll end up.

What I do know is that his overall scoring efficiency gradually improved in each of his first three seasons:

2011-12: 47.6 TS%
2012-13: 48.2 TS%
2013-14: 49.1 TS%

He's at 47.6 TS% so far this season, but he's only played 13 games, with a major injury in the middle of it. We'll see how things shake out at the end of the year, but even if it stays the same, I still won't rule out the possibility of further improvement.

I think one thing that is easy to rule out is that he will never be a Nash or Curry or even Chris Paul. It will never be a strong suit, so all we can do is hope that he makes it less and less of a weakness over time.

Q's post pretty much says it all. The evidence shows a consistent pattern of improvement in Ricky's scoring efficiency. Whether he cintinues to improve and, if so, how much more remains to be seen. Given how well he has always shot from the line (over 80%), how well he shoots in practice since altering his shooting mechanics and his past pattern of improvement, I think he will show further improvement over the next couple seasons until he plateaus. But the beauty of this is that he doesn't have to improve his shooting to continue being a huge positive difference-maker through his passing, rebounding, defense, and overall leadership. Any improvement in his shooting will be a bonus.

U coddle him more than any other player. U have to realize this?

Rubio is one player who deserves to be coddled, because he has such a positive impact on this team. There are a lot of stats we can point to, but none more meaningful than this:

Wolves record with Rubio: 7-6
Wolves record w/o Rubio: 6-37

Think about those numbers. Durant goes down and OkC is still a pretty good team. The Bulls continue to compete without Rose. But Ricky goes down, and the team completely collapses. You can make a case that no player is more valuable to his team than Rubio is to the Wolves.

Having said that, conversation about how he can improve his game (and shooting is the main area he could improve) is still appropriate. I think his upside is extraordinary if he learns to finish at the rim and hit the mid-range jud mmp shot. And his consistent free throw excellence tells me he can improve his shooting.

Durant goes down, they have Westbrook and Ibaka. Rubio goes down and there's Pek and Martin. Certainly u see the difference . Ricky healthy and this team is maybe a .500 ball club. Those guys stay healthy and their vying for a championship. I can't agree with that comparison.
And when I say maybe I mean it's never happened before.

I'm not talking about the supporting cast, only the impact an individual player has on his team. And win/loss record depending on whether a player is in the lineup or not is the ultimate way to measure that, And I'll challenge anyone to name a team that falls apart as much as the Wolves do when Rubio is out. That's how I define valuable.

When the supporting cast around u is that bad than its easier to make a difference.
By your logic Bradley Beal is the most important player to his team in the league.

I don't get your point about Beal, porkchop. You've seen the Wolves' record with and without Rubio, and it's strikingly different. Not so with Beal. The Wizards are 9-7 without Beal, and 24-18 with him...not much difference. That's exactly my point. When other teams lose a key player, they might get a little worse. But when Rubio goes down, the team completely flops. Again, my definition of valuable.

Edit: Just finished reading this thread and saw that Mikkeman and Grey already covered this point...didn't mean to pile on!

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

U coddle him more than any other player. U have to realize this?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

U coddle him more than any other player. U have to realize this?

Rubio is one player who deserves to be coddled, because he has such a positive impact on this team. There are a lot of stats we can point to, but none more meaningful than this:

Wolves record with Rubio: 7-6
Wolves record w/o Rubio: 6-37

Think about those numbers. Durant goes down and OkC is still a pretty good team. The Bulls continue to compete without Rose. But Ricky goes down, and the team completely collapses. You can make a case that no player is more valuable to his team than Rubio is to the Wolves.

That statement bugs me. It's like your saying it's all Rubio. Your completely not factoring in the fact that Rubio has had Martin in the lineup in everyone of his games. Martin is having one of his best years ever, and could argue has had just as big effect on the Wolves this year as Rubio

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

What's more important? The difference between a .250 and .500 winning percentage or the difference between title contention or not. That's why guys like Lebron are more valuable than Ricky. The Cavs aren't a title contender without Lebron. The Thunder aren't a title contender without Durant.

[TheFuture]

I don't know, some guys just never become good shooters, no matter how many reps they take. Some are able to adjust their mechanics, take the reps, and not revert back to old habits. Ricky is on a journey right now and it's hard to know where he'll end up.

What I do know is that his overall scoring efficiency gradually improved in each of his first three seasons:

2011-12: 47.6 TS%
2012-13: 48.2 TS%
2013-14: 49.1 TS%

He's at 47.6 TS% so far this season, but he's only played 13 games, with a major injury in the middle of it. We'll see how things shake out at the end of the year, but even if it stays the same, I still won't rule out the possibility of further improvement.

I think one thing that is easy to rule out is that he will never be a Nash or Curry or even Chris Paul. It will never be a strong suit, so all we can do is hope that he makes it less and less of a weakness over time.

Q's post pretty much says it all. The evidence shows a consistent pattern of improvement in Ricky's scoring efficiency. Whether he cintinues to improve and, if so, how much more remains to be seen. Given how well he has always shot from the line (over 80%), how well he shoots in practice since altering his shooting mechanics and his past pattern of improvement, I think he will show further improvement over the next couple seasons until he plateaus. But the beauty of this is that he doesn't have to improve his shooting to continue being a huge positive difference-maker through his passing, rebounding, defense, and overall leadership. Any improvement in his shooting will be a bonus.

U coddle him more than any other player. U have to realize this?

Rubio is one player who deserves to be coddled, because he has such a positive impact on this team. There are a lot of stats we can point to, but none more meaningful than this:

Wolves record with Rubio: 7-6
Wolves record w/o Rubio: 6-37

Think about those numbers. Durant goes down and OkC is still a pretty good team. The Bulls continue to compete without Rose. But Ricky goes down, and the team completely collapses. You can make a case that no player is more valuable to his team than Rubio is to the Wolves.

Having said that, conversation about how he can improve his game (and shooting is the main area he could improve) is still appropriate. I think his upside is extraordinary if he learns to finish at the rim and hit the mid-range jump shot. And his consistent free throw excellence tells me he can improve his shooting.

Those win/loss numbers are skewed. The team wasn't just without Ricky for those 40 games.

[bleedspeed]

We are 1-0 with KG back. We are on track to finish 26-0 and a final record of 39-43 for the season.

[AbeVigodaLive]

We are 1-0 with KG back. We are on track to finish 26-0 and a final record of 39-43 for the season.

Does Garnett play tonight?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It's absurd that we're even debating Rubio's value to this franchise. Madness I say!

He's a flawed shooter that is struggling to improve. He's also the MVP of the team - hands down.