Nemanja Bjelica - Hype Thread

[Phenom]

In the games when Wiggins was being assertive, I don't recall ever thinking, man I wish Martin would back off. I don't see that issue yet. I would explore dealing him strictly as a means to getting a valuable piece, however.

[mrhockey89]

In the games when Wiggins was being assertive, I don't recall ever thinking, man I wish Martin would back off. I don't see that issue yet. I would explore dealing him strictly as a means to getting a valuable piece, however.

Agreed Phenom. Last year at this time, so many wanted to trade Martin to clear the way as well, and getting rid of his salary. Then, as the season went on, he reminded everyone how valuable he was to the Wolves even having a chance in games. We need to keep him barring a chance to use him as a piece in a deal that will upgrade us elsewhere long-term.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Like I said, K-Mart is a good player. He's just not a great fit on our team. I suppose if he could accept a reduced role, he would be just fine. But we all know he isn't going to take to that very well.

Why don't we continue to get better, and then see how he reacts? We forget that he happily took a backseat in OKC. Was one of his most efficient seasons because he wasn't asked to do too much. He played his role and was damn good at it. We're not a good team right now, but we might be. The team needs to improve and Flip needs to find a coach, or coach himself, that will explain to Martin what his role is.

He could easily be our Kyle Korver, for example. That's not to take away from Korver or Martin, but to illustrate the role he could have.

Except Korver does more than just shoot 3's. Korver is an underrated defender and gets his offense within their system. He did that to the tune of a deserved all-star bid this year. Meanwhile Martin is the go to guy on our offense. That's not changing for the sake of some second year players to develop on a lottery team. Saying a guy going into his second year needs to start demanding the ball from his teammates doesn't seem like a good option for anyone. That kind of respect is earned with time and play, not draft position.

Try starting Lavine over Martin and see how that works out. My guess is not good. He'll take a backseat on a title contender, but not a lottery team even if it is best for us to move forward with him as a bench scorer. We aren't OKC where falling in line behind some superstars is an easy task. He has to fall in line behind some young guys who might not be better than him at first, but in the long haul that's the only way they can get better. Enjoy telling a veteran of the league to do that. I'd rather swap him for a young shooter who will just be happy with playing time and let our young guys get the extra development time. We need vets who make those around them better over some empty scoring stats.

What role does Martin serve on the team if he stays as our starting 2? He's not leading us to the playoffs with his scoring. It seems to me that he just blocks potential development time while simultaneously doing little to help us win more nor help progress the development of our other players. What long-term goal does he help us accomplish? He was brought here as a perimeter scorer and 3pt shooter to help us make the playoffs with Love in Adelman's system. Neither of those guys are here anymore. If he had a long-term purpose I'd say keep him, but I can't think of one. All the excuses for keeping him are just that he fills a temporary hole. The rest of the team has to learn and be relied on to shoot 3's moving forward. It makes Martin a crutch right now as opposed to a real fix of the core issue which is everyone else just has to improve their 3pt shooting which in turn would make the loss of Martin less impactful.

[Coolbreeze44]

In the games when Wiggins was being assertive, I don't recall ever thinking, man I wish Martin would back off. I don't see that issue yet. I would explore dealing him strictly as a means to getting a valuable piece, however.

Phenom, I found myself wanting Martin to back off many times during the last few weeks of the season. When he wasn't siting out for one if his many maladies, he was shooting a poor percentage from behind the arc. Made me wonder why we would even want him. Khans makes a lot of good points. This isn't OKC or some title contender he's on. He proved to me last year that what he really wanted was to get his numbers on this talent deprived team. When his 3 isn't falling, what is he going to give you? Defense? No. Leadership? Hell no. Clutch play? Are you kidding me? He is a player who is very overrated by most of this board.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"but in the long haul that's the only way they can get better."

This narrative is false, though. You keep acting like increased playing time is the only way guys get better. You've done it for Bennett and LaVine. Guess what? Guys can actually get better with 20 MPG. It happens in the NBA, and it's widely done in Euro leagues. You don't actually have to move veterans for no reason other than to put more minutes on a guy that isn't ready or deserving. Let them battle it out.

You say our reasons for keeping him are temporary, and don't help the development of our young guys. I've argued this before, but it's ALWAYS good for young guys to have good veteran players around them. Guys that you know are consistent. Having young guys around other young guys, inconstancy with more inconstancy. Not the best formula for success. Just another part of your made-up narrative that young guys only develop with 30+ minutes. Frankly, it's bullshit.

[Coolbreeze44]

I don't really want my young guys learning from K-mart. The one thing he does well, he does with terrible form. As far as the rest of his game goes, I'd just as soon our young guys not be influenced by him at all.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm not sure why Martin's shooting form is being called into question. Sure, it's ugly. It also works for him. Is this what this debate is resorting to?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

"but in the long haul that's the only way they can get better."

This narrative is false, though. You keep acting like increased playing time is the only way guys get better. You've done it for Bennett and LaVine. Guess what? Guys can actually get better with 20 MPG. It happens in the NBA, and it's widely done in Euro leagues. You don't actually have to move veterans for no reason other than to put more minutes on a guy that isn't ready or deserving. Let them battle it out.

You say our reasons for keeping him are temporary, and don't help the development of our young guys. I've argued this before, but it's ALWAYS good for young guys to have good veteran players around them. Guys that you know are consistent. Having young guys around other young guys, inconstancy with more inconstancy. Not the best formula for success. Just another part of your made-up narrative that young guys only develop with 30+ minutes. Frankly, it's bullshit.

Please name the star players in this league who came off the bench for 2+ years playing 20MPG's before getting their chance. I'd bet it's not a long list compared to the stars who were given the keys early and forced to get better on the fly. Newsflash, the way you get better is to actually play the game, not watch most of it from the bench. You call my narrative bullshit, then provide some names that proves your narrative isn't bullshit. And I'm not talking rotation players. I'm talking multi-time all-stars because that's what we need. Martin scores 20 a game, we lose 50+ games and how does that help our young guys again? Playing with a guy who consistently plays a major role in losing as your leading scorer? His leadership and consistency really helped us this year with all 16 games we won. He does nothing but score which Wiggins and Lavine had no problem doing down the stretch last year so again I ask. What does he actually help this team accomplish?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

khans, you're the CONTEXT man on this board. Don't act like Martin was the reason the Wolves won only 16 games. Doing so just shows you're stretching to make Martin the problem when he's not. Keep in mind we've all heard you say that the Wolves aren't really a 16-win team because of the horrific amount of injuries this team suffered. Nice try, though.

How about before jumping the gun, we establish LaVine as a positive role player first? He wasn't that last year and he actually was thrown in the fire for big minutes. You can't act like there's one road to success. That's FOOLISH. Jimmy Butler of all people was an All-Star this year. LaVine needs to develop his game year by year. As long as he does that, his game and elite athletic ability could turn him into a star. You rushing the process could just as easily make him flame out.

Also, trading Martin for the sole purpose of giving the starting spot to LaVine is an example of putting all your eggs into one basket. If it goes wrong, you've just created a massive hole in your lineup.

If LaVine proves to be better than Martin next year, then start him. Trading a player to open up more minutes for a guy when there's plenty to begin with is something I disagree with completely.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm not sure why Martin's shooting form is being called into question. Sure, it's ugly. It also works for him. Is this what this debate is resorting to?

Sure it works for HIM, but would you teach your son to shoot that way? I think that's what I was saying.