Best Potential Love Trades

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

*2012 stat, 2013 stat*

- Win Shares:

CP: 7.0, 7.6
KT: 4.3, 6.7

- OWS/DWS:

CP: 4.9/2.1, 5.1/2.5
KT: 1.7/2.6, 3.5/3.2

- ORtg/DRtg:

CP: 113/108, 114/108
KT: 102/107, 108/106

- AST%:

CP: 15.6, 17.3
KT: 10.1, 10.2

- eFG%:

CP: .567, .538
KT: .509, .533

- TS%:

CP: .584, .565
KT: .533, .555

- 2P% / 3P%:

CP: .579 / .385, .644 / .370
KT: .563 / .401, .575 / .417

- PER (not a fan of this stat, but I'll include it anyway):

CP: 15.3, 15.9
KT: 12.7, 14.3

- USG%:

CP: 18.3, 19.3
KT: 21.8, 22.6

Parsons is a better player than Thompson. Anyone who says different has fallen in love with his ability to shoot threes while and/or being yet another victim of the four letter brand (ESPN). I also did Thompson supporters a favor by not including his playoff stats compared to Parsons'. His effectiveness goes down significantly. Why? Because he's a high volume jumpshooter. And if he's not hitting his jumper, he's not going to start facilitating or contributing in other ways on offense. Also left out their rebounding stats (since that'd be unfair???).

Scoff at stats all you want to, but the eye test would tell you the same. How many times have [most Wolves fans] made the point that this team needs more players that can handle the ball and make plays? That's not something Thompson can do at this point, and likely never will be that player. Parsons already can and does make plays, supported by his assist percentage.

Tired of seeing posts suggesting that Thompson > Parsons. Based on what? Based on your own flawed opinion? Based on ESPN telling you so? Based on him and Steph Curry having a catchy backcourt nickname? Please, tell me what your reasoning is.

[mrhockey89]

Klay Thompson has the upside to be the top defending SG in the NBA and a top 3 shooter in the NBA.

I'm not even going to bother with your stats comparison of 2 players who play different positions and have different roles on their teams, and doesn't/can't give an accurate value of their relative defensive effectiveness. And if you want me to push it, Klay is younger, too.

Nevertheless, I do like Parsons, I just like Klay more and think it's tougher to get a 2 way SG like Klay than it is a well rounded small forward like Parsons.

You can hate Klay all you want, but if everything was measured on stats alone, then Johnny Flynn could actually trick someone into thinking he was an average player or even had a 'good' rookie season, neither of which are remotely true.

[foye2smith [enjin:6593248]]

You can certainly have your preference but it seems like you're arguing over the difference between red grapes and green grapes. They're the same tier but do different things well. I don't buy Thompson having a significantly higher ceiling but he does have a year younger on Parsons.

For further comparison similar to what Cam did. Here's 82games opponents (against their position Thompson SG/Parsons SF) stats for this last year.

-eFG

CP: 52%
*KT: 47%

-iFG

CP: 26%
*KT: 19%

REB Differential per48

*CP: 0.2
KT: -0.5

AST Differential per48

*CP: 1.8
KT: -1.1

T/O Differential per48

CP: 0
*KT: 0.2

BLK Differential per48

CP: -0.3
*KT: 0.2

PF Differential per48

*CP: 1.2
KT: -0.8

Opponents PPG/48

CP: 20.4
*KT: 20.1

Opponents PER

CP: 14.6
*KT: 12.4

Klay held opponents to worse shooting, kept his man away from the rim, higher net positive in turnovers forces, and blocks. Parsons clearly holds the advantage over Klay in assists and rebounds as Cam's comparisons pointed out as well.

The numbers are a little murkier at the end. Klay has the advantage in oPPG and PER, but that could just be the dearth of quality SGs in the league. Parsons may be the better player but won't Klay give his team the advantage at the position more times than not?

Then finally to bring it back to arguing about grapes, they have the same differential of PER over their opponents, 2.6 above. They're practically the same level of player.

[bleedspeed]

I think Cav's are out. They offered Hayward a max deal.

[TheGrey08]

I think Cav's are out. They offered Hayward a max deal.

wow that's crazy

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I think Cav's are out. They offered Hayward a max deal.

Utah will match.

[TheGrey08]

I think Cav's are out. They offered Hayward a max deal.

Utah will match.

Really hope so. Either way this shows the Cavs are not messing around and willing to do what it takes. That could catch Lebron's eye as well.

[bleedspeed]

I think it shows they don't have a chance in hell at Lebron.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"Klay Thompson has the upside to be the top defending SG in the NBA and a top 3 shooter in the NBA."

Yay for bonafide role players. Klay's a 3/D guy. I like him, but he's not able to do the things that Parsons can as he's a better overall player.

Klay's 24, Chandler's 25. One year doesn't mean much to me.

"Parsons may be the better player but won't Klay give his team the advantage at the position more times than not?"


This doesn't matter, in my opinion. I want the best players I can get on the floor. If we're trading for one, yes, I want Parsons. We had the advantage at SG last season most of the time anyway and it didn't mean a whole lot.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

The hype on Klay's defense is way higher than his actual production. The team was only 2 points per 100 possessions worse with him off the floor and that's not enough to say he was elite especially when you consider they didn't have anybody good behind him. In comparison, the team was over 7 points per 100 possessions worse with Iggy off the floor (a guy I believe to be an elite defender in this league). Combined with the fact that he was guarding PG's a lot that Curry couldn't defend, and you really don't have a good picture on how he would do defending opposing team's best wing night in and night out. They still had Iggy who can defend the 1-3, so Klay would cover whoever Steph couldn't which had a 6'7 SG on much smaller PG's often. That was really where his defense excelled (gave up a 8.3 PER to PG's), but in terms of guarding 2's, he was good, but he is not a lockdown defender. He was a full 4 PER points better defending PG's than SG's which is a significant number. Giving up a 12.4 PER to SG's is good, but the guys I consider Elite on defense are all hovering around 10 (Paul George was at an 8.3 to put it into perspective). So yes Klay is good on both sides of the ball, but I don't consider him elite against wings and Ricky is always going to be guarding the PG's on the other team, so there is no way to know how he holds up against wings 24/7. PER isn't the end-all be-all stat when it comes to defense, but it shows how much you can get your opponent to not play efficiently and in a lot of cases that translates to overall worse effectiveness as well.

This whole ordeal makes me wonder why we don't trade our clutter for either expiring's this year or cap space going into next summer and throw the max at Klay next offseason as a last ditch attempt to keep Love. If you get rid of Bud's $5 million dollar option, Shved's 4 million QO, Martin's 7 and QO Ricky, we'd probably have max level cap space and would for sure have enough if we ditch Brewer. If you can get Love and Ricky on the phone with him I don't think it'd be hard to at least convince him to sign a max offer sheet. A Ricky, Klay, Love core 3 with Dieng, Lavine, Bazz, Robinson and Pek around them would be a very good team in the West. I'd think that could be just as enticing as Steph, Klay, Iggy, Lee and Bogut core considering they are out of resources to get better and still have Lee locked up for another year after this one. Worst comes to worse, you force GS to be locked in on a max deal for Klay and they have no room to add anyone and they aren't good enough to be a contender now anyway. Why trade for the guy and have to take on Lee when you can make the right moves now to go after him next summer? I think Love would easily re-sign with us if we had a Ricky, Thompson, Love core moving forward. That is going to be just as good a big 3 as he'll get trying to sign elsewhere next offseason. I don't see Klay reaching an agreement on an extension with GS if he is truly seeking a max deal so I think he makes it to FA and a max deal might be enough to pry him away from GS. Otherwise, I don't know how they afford 5 contracts over 10 million dollars each and expect to put a contender on the floor around them. They aren't a contender with those 5 now, so I don't see how another year or two is going to make that big of a difference especially when the support around them is just going to get worse as they have less room to work with. Klay is 100% a max level player if it is the push Love needs to re-sign here long-term.