Minnesota Sports Forum

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Jason, LaVine and Bazz play different positions for the most part. Bazz is a SF/borderline PF and LaVine is about as pure of a SG as you will ever see. Also, from a pure functional perspective, we need LaVine's outside shooting more than we need Bazz's post-ups and hustle points. I also think anyone that has watched these two play for any extended period of time would say that LaVine has far more upside.

It's odd that you would say that, because over half of his minutes he is classified as a SG and almost zero of his minutes are classified as PF.

.

I agree with his "borderline" PF comment. The key word is borderline. Basically, he's a bit of a tweeter. He attacks the glass. Has little flip shots/hooks. He's just too small and not good enough to pull it off consistently in small ball lineups.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Jason, LaVine and Bazz play different positions for the most part. Bazz is a SF/borderline PF and LaVine is about as pure of a SG as you will ever see. Also, from a pure functional perspective, we need LaVine's outside shooting more than we need Bazz's post-ups and hustle points. I also think anyone that has watched these two play for any extended period of time would say that LaVine has far more upside.

It's odd that you would say that, because over half of his minutes he is classified as a SG and almost zero of his minutes are classified as PF.

.

I agree with his "borderline" PF comment. The key word is borderline. Basically, he's a bit of a tweeter. He attacks the glass. Has little flip shots/hooks. He's just too small and not good enough to pull it off consistently in small ball lineups.

How absolutely sure are we about that? How many minutes has he really played there? My guess is very few despite it making sense. How does he compare lengthwise to some other guys that play small ball PF? You may be surprised how his length compares to Iggy and even Draymond.

I get it Bazz plays a game whether he is actually a selfish or on defense lazy (or just doesn't get it) that bothers people. What bugs me is it seems like some people seem just so willing to overlook the guy brings positives. It feels like he never gets credit when he plays minutes and the team does well. He is 24 been in the league 3 years and no way can he improve I guess...ah never mind nearly everyone agrees here I think he is a put up or shut up guy this season (also needs to stay healthy like he did this past season that might also help him get better as a player) but I think he has a shot of showing more this season than what he has already and being a more useful player. We will see.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Jason, LaVine and Bazz play different positions for the most part. Bazz is a SF/borderline PF and LaVine is about as pure of a SG as you will ever see. Also, from a pure functional perspective, we need LaVine's outside shooting more than we need Bazz's post-ups and hustle points. I also think anyone that has watched these two play for any extended period of time would say that LaVine has far more upside.

It's odd that you would say that, because over half of his minutes he is classified as a SG and almost zero of his minutes are classified as PF.

.

I agree with his "borderline" PF comment. The key word is borderline. Basically, he's a bit of a tweeter. He attacks the glass. Has little flip shots/hooks. He's just too small and not good enough to pull it off consistently in small ball lineups.

How absolutely sure are we about that? How many minutes has he really played there? My guess is very few despite it making sense. How does he compare lengthwise to some other guys that play small ball PF? You may be surprised how his length compares to Iggy and even Draymond.

I get it Bazz plays a game whether he is actually a selfish or on defense lazy (or just doesn't get it) that bothers people. What bugs me is it seems like some people seem just so willing to overlook the guy brings positives. It feels like he never gets credit when he plays minutes and the team does well. He is 24 been in the league 3 years and no way can he improve I guess...ah never mind nearly everyone agrees here I think he is a put up or shut up guy this season (also needs to stay healthy like he did this past season that might also help him get better as a player) but I think he has a shot of showing more this season than what he has already and being a more useful player. We will see.

Do you think he can play the 4 defensively for significant stretches. Seems like a lot to ask of a poor defender.

I think he gets his fair share acclaim. Many here have suggested he's worthy of a #1 pick in a trade

This is what bugs me. Shabazz is what he is as a player after three years , but we still hold out hope that Ricky will be a better three point shooter/ shooter. Why does one get more time to work on his flaws than others? I think fans have made me resent Ricky more than Ricky himself.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Why do people like Bazz? He plays hard. Great. So what? He still is an atrocious defender and a black hole offensively. In his third year instead of improvement we saw a fully healthy season where his shooting percentages outside of FT's dropped and he passed the ball even less (his assists cut in half per game playing only 2.3 minutes less). He's an undersized 4. I can't imagine anyone enjoys playing with him. His game is old school in a new NBA. Frankly he could ride the bench all year and I wouldn't care. He already plays hard so I don't know what more Thibs can do to make him a better player. He doesn't have the athleticism to be a good defender and I don't know how you change the mindset of someone to become a willing passer.

1. I can't recollect ever saying I liked how "hard" someone played. If he's getting it done, I don't care how hard he's breathing.
2. Ah, the Kahn's methodology. Decide if you like a guy, then find an obscure stat that you think backs it up. So the shooting percentage drop. Are they from the same place from the floor as the year before? Could it be from him being guarded more closely? So the assist drop. Could it be that guys were passing up shots and passing to others who then got the assist? Could it be that guys were missing shots? Was there an overall drop in assists year-to-year as a team with him on the floor? What do you think of Lebron's OPS? Or the fact that Curry seems to have a lot of touchbacks?
3. I can imagine players enjoying playing with him.
4. That is so disappointing to hear that you don't want to watch him. Maybe they can trade him for Eric Gordon so you can watch him wear a suit all for 40 games.
5. Really? You don't know what Thibs could do as a coach? That's a shock.

Ah. I see. His statistical drop almost across the board is everyone else's fault. God forbid a player be accountable for his own performance. His teammates must be the reason he missed all those shots. His teammates must be the reason he played selfishly and didn't move the ball. Oh wait. Those are the same teammates he had from the year before when he posted better numbers and I can tell you his teammates didn't get worse from the year before. He did. Did you watch any games last year because it's extremely questionable to say Zach is just a dunker who hasn't proven anything else if you actually watched this team when he took over the starting role?

PorkChop wrote:This is what bugs me. Shabazz is what he is as a player after three years , but we still hold out hope that Ricky will be a better three point shooter/ shooter. Why does one get more time to work on his flaws than others? I think fans have made me resent Ricky more than Ricky himself.

Couldn't help yourself could you Chop. Another thread about to be sabotaged.

:thumb:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Jason, LaVine and Bazz play different positions for the most part. Bazz is a SF/borderline PF and LaVine is about as pure of a SG as you will ever see. Also, from a pure functional perspective, we need LaVine's outside shooting more than we need Bazz's post-ups and hustle points. I also think anyone that has watched these two play for any extended period of time would say that LaVine has far more upside.

It's odd that you would say that, because over half of his minutes he is classified as a SG and almost zero of his minutes are classified as PF.

.

I agree with his "borderline" PF comment. The key word is borderline. Basically, he's a bit of a tweeter. He attacks the glass. Has little flip shots/hooks. He's just too small and not good enough to pull it off consistently in small ball lineups.

How absolutely sure are we about that? How many minutes has he really played there? My guess is very few despite it making sense. How does he compare lengthwise to some other guys that play small ball PF? You may be surprised how his length compares to Iggy and even Draymond.

I get it Bazz plays a game whether he is actually a selfish or on defense lazy (or just doesn't get it) that bothers people. What bugs me is it seems like some people seem just so willing to overlook the guy brings positives. It feels like he never gets credit when he plays minutes and the team does well. He is 24 been in the league 3 years and no way can he improve I guess...ah never mind nearly everyone agrees here I think he is a put up or shut up guy this season (also needs to stay healthy like he did this past season that might also help him get better as a player) but I think he has a shot of showing more this season than what he has already and being a more useful player. We will see.

Do you think he can play the 4 defensively for significant stretches. Seems like a lot to ask of a poor defender.

I think he gets his fair share acclaim. Many here have suggested he's worthy of a #1 pick in a trade

Would he be a worse defender at PF than he is at any other position? :)

Q12543 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Jason, LaVine and Bazz play different positions for the most part. Bazz is a SF/borderline PF and LaVine is about as pure of a SG as you will ever see. Also, from a pure functional perspective, we need LaVine's outside shooting more than we need Bazz's post-ups and hustle points. I also think anyone that has watched these two play for any extended period of time would say that LaVine has far more upside.

It's odd that you would say that, because over half of his minutes he is classified as a SG and almost zero of his minutes are classified as PF.

Do you have a date when we'll see this Lavine "upside"? Will it involve something that's not a dunk? If you tell me, I promise to watch.

The date is February 27, 2015. That's when LaVine became our starting SG for good this past season and what it involved was a lot of made outside shots, and yes, a few dunks too. I guess you missed it.

Jason did you watch a single game after the All Star break? Lavine was showing a lot of promise and upside, including his ability to get to the bucket, hit 3s and most importantly he was repeatedly clutch at the end of games. He made several HUGE shots and was a key factor in some close games and wins. He even showed some flashes on defense (Jim Pete commented on that more than a few times). Now you inject a great defensive coach and there's potential he improves a lot.

I'm quite excited to see how Wiggins & Lavine play under Thibs. I'm curious to see how Bazz reacts to him as well. Wiggins & Lavine due to their defensive ability/talent/athleticism and Bazz for his complete lack of defense. Great defensive coaches can do wonders.

If you look at the 5-man lineups Shabazz played in last season, the lineup he was in for the 2nd most minutes is Rubio-LaVine-Wiggins-Shabazz-KAT. He's the PF in that lineup and they played together for 90 minutes. That may not sound like a lot, but when you think about the fact he came off the bench and any given 5-man unit will rarely play more than 5 or 6 consecutive minutes together, that 90 minutes had to have been played over a number of different games and opponents.

That unit was +1.5 per 100 possessions, so they held serve and then some. Of course, he was also on the court with Rubio instead of LaVine or Jones at PG. If you look at Shabazz's two-man lineups, the only guy he ended up in the positive on in terms of +/- was Rubio (Pork is closing his eyes and plugging his ears in denial - he can't stand the fact players play better with Rubio on the court with them).

Finally, guess who the guy was playing the 4 in the closing minutes of that epic (well, epic for us poor T-Wolves fans) win against Golden State? Shabazz Muhammed.

Defensively, Shabazz struggles more on the perimeter because he moves laterally like he has two cement blocks tied to his feet. So if you were to ask me where he'd give up more defensively, it would be on the wing.

Should he play PF full-time? Absolutely not. But he is definitely a viable option for small-ball 4.

I'm happy with the way they handled both the Deng and Gasol pursuits. Deng simply wanted too much money/years. They are maintaining flexibility and that is important. It's not like Deng is in his 20s anymore either.

Darren Wolfson ?@DWolfsonKSTP 11h11 hours ago
Deng-#Twolves specifics from multiple angles: 3-year offer at $12M/year, 3rd year not fully guaranteed. Thibs drew a line in the sand.
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I saw multiple reports about Minnesota's offers to Gasol offer. One stated it started as a 2 yrs 18/mill per at first (which was also reported by 1500espn AP). Ramona Shelburne reported that the team met with him Friday and that his market value was 18-22 mill.

Then another reported that last Saturday they stepped up big after Portland offered 2 yrs 20 mill per. Marc J. Spears (ESPN) reported they made an aggressive 2 year offer. I recall seeing 2 yr 46 mill total.

Gasol ended up signing for around 2 yrs 30 mill total. He signed for less to play on a contender. What more do you want from Wolves management??
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Marc J. Spears @MarcJSpearsESPN
T-Wolves made aggressive 2-year offer to free agent Pau Gasol to reunite him with coach Thibs, source said. Keep eye on Blazers & Spurs, too

http://www.1500espn.com/wolves-2/2016/07/timberwolves-miss-out-on-pau-gasol-who-agrees-to-terms-with-spurs/

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16738440/the-portland-trail-blazers-minnesota-timberwolves-toronto-raptors-san-antonio-spurs-emerge-top-teams-pursuit-spanish-big-man-pau-gasol