Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Maybe it's time to revisit this thread. The Wolves are coming off a tough, terrible home loss.

6 of the next 7 games are on the road... around the holidays. The Wolves are 2 - 12 on the road this season.

Let's say the Wolves lose all 6 road games, even vs. Chicago. Hey, it's not out of the question. Didn't the Bulls win last year at home? That would put the Wolves at 2 - 18 on the road and 15 - 23 overall... firmly out of the playoff chase.

Is it enough to get Thibs fired?



Personally, I say no. But mostly because what would it matter? Who's taking over from the assistant coaches? There isn't a good candidate in the bunch. And then there's the dual executive job with Thibs. That just complicates things. In any event, I think there will be a lot of happy people this summer when Thibs is fired.

I agree that it's unlikely Thibs is fired before the end of the season. And I agree there wouldn't be much point firing him in the scenario you suggested.

Yes, there will likely be a lot of happy Wolves fans next summer if Thibodeau is fired. You'd think I'd be one of them, but not so fast. For me, whether I'm happy will turn on who the Wolves hire to replace him. As I've conceded many times, we could do worse than Thibodeau. Can you spell Kurt Rambis? I don't trust Glen Taylor. So I'm still hoping that Thibodeau adapts and that the Wolves catch fire this season.

Wow the ghost of Rambis makes Lip hope for Thibs to adapt. That's REALLY something. :) It's true Glen doesn't deserve having much confidence in but even if he was more average owner it's quite possible we wouldn't end up with the right coach. There are a lot of averagish coaches out there. It's possible we end up with one even worse than Thibs like you suggested.

I just want to avoid a retread.

Organizations like the Wolves (terrible owner + shitty history + bad climate + relatively small = NOT in the top 75% of free agent destinations) need to think differently. Instead of being way behind the curve on trends... be first. Try new things. Be adaptable. Be aggressive.

I guess that's more difficult when the club is owned by a near-octogenarian who made his fortune in the print business and who purchased a newspaper just a few years ago vs. super rich guys who have capitalized on businesses on the upswing instead of businesses with a heyday in the 1950s.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Maybe it's time to revisit this thread. The Wolves are coming off a tough, terrible home loss.

6 of the next 7 games are on the road... around the holidays. The Wolves are 2 - 12 on the road this season.

Let's say the Wolves lose all 6 road games, even vs. Chicago. Hey, it's not out of the question. Didn't the Bulls win last year at home? That would put the Wolves at 2 - 18 on the road and 15 - 23 overall... firmly out of the playoff chase.

Is it enough to get Thibs fired?



Personally, I say no. But mostly because what would it matter? Who's taking over from the assistant coaches? There isn't a good candidate in the bunch. And then there's the dual executive job with Thibs. That just complicates things. In any event, I think there will be a lot of happy people this summer when Thibs is fired.

I agree that it's unlikely Thibs is fired before the end of the season. And I agree there wouldn't be much point firing him in the scenario you suggested.

Yes, there will likely be a lot of happy Wolves fans next summer if Thibodeau is fired. You'd think I'd be one of them, but not so fast. For me, whether I'm happy will turn on who the Wolves hire to replace him. As I've conceded many times, we could do worse than Thibodeau. Can you spell Kurt Rambis? I don't trust Glen Taylor. So I'm still hoping that Thibodeau adapts and that the Wolves catch fire this season.

Wow the ghost of Rambis makes Lip hope for Thibs to adapt. That's REALLY something. :) It's true Glen doesn't deserve having much confidence in but even if he was more average owner it's quite possible we wouldn't end up with the right coach. There are a lot of averagish coaches out there. It's possible we end up with one even worse than Thibs like you suggested.

True.

But there are assistant coaches in the NBA who have been known as the next generation of coaches.

It's not like the Wolves have to go outside the NBA to find a random person out of nowhere... like some real estate guy failing to bring the Expos back... and make him the President of Basketball Operations.




ahem... ahem...

I just want to avoid a retread.

Organizations like the Wolves (terrible owner + shitty history + bad climate + relatively small = NOT in the top 75% of free agent destinations) need to think differently. Instead of being way behind the curve on trends... be first. Try new things. Be adaptable. Be aggressive.

I guess that's more difficult when the club is owned by a near-octogenarian who made his fortune in the print business and who purchased a newspaper just a few years ago vs. super rich guys who have capitalized on businesses on the upswing instead of businesses with a heyday in the 1950s.

This is a good post and I think many here would agree with the idea you are putting forth. Still there is risk in going for that new guy. For every Brad Stevens there is a bunchbof guys that are worse than the retreads. Assuming Thibs actually gets fired we need to be lucky and have someone that's better than a retread available like what happened with the Bucks and Bud. Of course the Irony is that Thibs looked like a pretty good option when we needed a new guy not that long ago. Even though I don't have a ton of faith in Glen (and I probably have more faith that most) I don't really envy him having to figure out who to hand the Basketball stuff to next.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Maybe it's time to revisit this thread. The Wolves are coming off a tough, terrible home loss.

6 of the next 7 games are on the road... around the holidays. The Wolves are 2 - 12 on the road this season.

Let's say the Wolves lose all 6 road games, even vs. Chicago. Hey, it's not out of the question. Didn't the Bulls win last year at home? That would put the Wolves at 2 - 18 on the road and 15 - 23 overall... firmly out of the playoff chase.

Is it enough to get Thibs fired?



Personally, I say no. But mostly because what would it matter? Who's taking over from the assistant coaches? There isn't a good candidate in the bunch. And then there's the dual executive job with Thibs. That just complicates things. In any event, I think there will be a lot of happy people this summer when Thibs is fired.

I agree that it's unlikely Thibs is fired before the end of the season. And I agree there wouldn't be much point firing him in the scenario you suggested.

Yes, there will likely be a lot of happy Wolves fans next summer if Thibodeau is fired. You'd think I'd be one of them, but not so fast. For me, whether I'm happy will turn on who the Wolves hire to replace him. As I've conceded many times, we could do worse than Thibodeau. Can you spell Kurt Rambis? I don't trust Glen Taylor. So I'm still hoping that Thibodeau adapts and that the Wolves catch fire this season.

Wow the ghost of Rambis makes Lip hope for Thibs to adapt. That's REALLY something. :) It's true Glen doesn't deserve having much confidence in but even if he was more average owner it's quite possible we wouldn't end up with the right coach. There are a lot of averagish coaches out there. It's possible we end up with one even worse than Thibs like you suggested.

True.

But there are assistant coaches in the NBA who have been known as the next generation of coaches.

It's not like the Wolves have to go outside the NBA to find a random person out of nowhere... like some real estate guy failing to bring the Expos back... and make him the President of Basketball Operations.




ahem... ahem...

I just want to avoid a retread.

Organizations like the Wolves (terrible owner + shitty history + bad climate + relatively small = NOT in the top 75% of free agent destinations) need to think differently. Instead of being way behind the curve on trends... be first. Try new things. Be adaptable. Be aggressive.

I guess that's more difficult when the club is owned by a near-octogenarian who made his fortune in the print business and who purchased a newspaper just a few years ago vs. super rich guys who have capitalized on businesses on the upswing instead of businesses with a heyday in the 1950s.

This is a good post and I think many here would agree with the idea you are putting forth. Still there is risk in going for that new guy. For every Brad Stevens there is a bunchbof guys that are worse than the retreads. Assuming Thibs actually gets fired we need to be lucky and have someone that's better than a retread available like what happened with the Bucks and Bud. Of course the Irony is that Thibs looked like a pretty good option when we needed a new guy not that long ago. Even though I don't have a ton of faith in Glen (and I probably have more faith that most) I don't really envy him having to figure out who to hand the Basketball stuff to next.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TheSP wrote:As I said before, I just don't think Glenn is the type to fire someone, especially a high profile guy like Thibs, just before the holidays. It would not surprise me to see Thibs fired before the end of January should the team not show signs of life.

But if there's nobody else promising to take over... why bother?

Considering just how much power the guy has... it's going to leave a huge void (good or bad). Putting the wrong guy(s) into it can actually cause more harm in the end than keeping the status quo in a dead-end season.

TheSP wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TheSP wrote:As I said before, I just don't think Glenn is the type to fire someone, especially a high profile guy like Thibs, just before the holidays. It would not surprise me to see Thibs fired before the end of January should the team not show signs of life.

But if there's nobody else promising to take over... why bother?

Considering just how much power the guy has... it's going to leave a huge void (good or bad). Putting the wrong guy(s) into it can actually cause more harm in the end than keeping the status quo in a dead-end season.

The worst outcome from this season IMO is Thibs is retained until the final game, then fired. At that point Glenn begins searching for his next VP at a time when that person should already have evaluated the current roster and had plans in place for the draft, free agency, and potential trades. Unless Glenn plans on giving Thibs another offseason/season to prove himself, which would be suicidal from a fan standpoint, they have to move sooner rather than later.

The dual role is what's causing the problem for me. You cannot fire Thibs the coach and not the VP, or visa versa. In order to get teh next front office in place with plenty of time to prepare for the offseason you have to bite the bullet and Thibs the coach too, even if its only Thibs the VP you're trying to replace in the short term. Take the hit now so the team can get back on its feet sooner, no point in delaying the inevitable.

monsterpile wrote:

TheSP wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TheSP wrote:As I said before, I just don't think Glenn is the type to fire someone, especially a high profile guy like Thibs, just before the holidays. It would not surprise me to see Thibs fired before the end of January should the team not show signs of life.

But if there's nobody else promising to take over... why bother?

Considering just how much power the guy has... it's going to leave a huge void (good or bad). Putting the wrong guy(s) into it can actually cause more harm in the end than keeping the status quo in a dead-end season.

The worst outcome from this season IMO is Thibs is retained until the final game, then fired. At that point Glenn begins searching for his next VP at a time when that person should already have evaluated the current roster and had plans in place for the draft, free agency, and potential trades. Unless Glenn plans on giving Thibs another offseason/season to prove himself, which would be suicidal from a fan standpoint, they have to move sooner rather than later.

The dual role is what's causing the problem for me. You cannot fire Thibs the coach and not the VP, or visa versa. In order to get teh next front office in place with plenty of time to prepare for the offseason you have to bite the bullet and Thibs the coach too, even if its only Thibs the VP you're trying to replace in the short term. Take the hit now so the team can get back on its feet sooner, no point in delaying the inevitable.

You do make a good point here that if Glen thinks he is going to make a move he should start doing the search for the next basketball guy to make his basketball decisions before the season ends. Unless things have really unraveled he probably still has Thibs finish out the season as coach even with that scenario.

I still think Thibs has a shot at keeping his job for another season obviously depending on how the next few months play out. What does Thibs have going for him?

The trade for Covington and Saric looks plenty solid.

Okogie looks like a nice player drafted outside of the lottery

Rose has been terrific.

All those things are not small and Thibs and to whatever extent Layden are responsible for these pieces on the roster. Let's see how the next 20-30 games play out AND who might be available to plug into the roles Thibs currently has. There may be some VERY attractive options available.

crazy-canuck wrote:The players clearly get along with thibs not around.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thedailywolf/status/1076660991209943044

https://m.imgur.com/a/6fH4xM5

crazy-canuck wrote:David Thorpe just doesnt not seem to like Thibs.

He also makes a good point about wiggs. Players run, but he prefers the term race to separate the 2. But wiggins does neither, he jogs. Thorpe is miffed because he believes in a race, wiggs is the fastest player in the league, but wiggs just doesnt value it.

http://www.1500espn.com/the-scoop-2/2018/12/david-thorpe-thibs-nba-whole-notes-twins-fa-pursuits-ep-192/

I think he is on point with regards to wiggs and thibs.