Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

Q12543 wrote:The only bright spot to me in this game was Okogie's defense on Hield. The rest of his game sucked, but as long as he was guarding Hield, Buddy was a non-factor.

That's good to hear, becasue he is clearly not performing on offense like a 1st round pick...2 for 7 last night with only 2 rebounds, 1 assist and no steals or blocks in 27 minutes. He's now shooting 36 % (23% on 3's) with more turnovers than assists. Robson the other day: "Okogie keeps gushing about confidence his teammates have in him, telling him to shoot. He should stop listening." I agree. Love the kid on defense, but he needs to know his limitations on offense.

I've been on vacation with no access to the games during this horrible road trip, and I feel quite fortunate. Sounds like Butler is putting no effort in on defense, and that would be tough to watch. Meanwhile though, he seems to be the only T-Wolf who knows how to get the ball to a teammate for a basket...he had 8 of our 20 assists last night.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by Lipoli390 »

Camden wrote:I didn't think I'd ever think this, but I think I'd rather have the Kings' roster and overall setup right now. And that's while acknowledging how talented and productive Towns has been to this point. He's in the early stages of a Hall of Fame career.

But give me Fox, Hield, Bagley, Bogdanovic, some capable veterans on cheap contracts and future financial flexibility over what the Wolves have right now.

You have to have an explosive backcourt to really be in business in today's NBA and I think the Kings have that moving forward.

The Wolves, however, can't get out of their own way -- deciding to trade away the opportunity to select McCollum, passing on Murray and Hield when they were obvious picks, trading LaVine. This is becoming an unforgivable issue and it's no surprise why this team is annually among the worst in three-point shooting.


Cam - I feel the same way. Actually, I remember wishing last season that we had the Sixers' or Celtics' rosters. As you and others will recall, I was concerned last season about where this team was headed. I didn't predict Butler's trade demand, but I didn't see the long-term upward trajectory you want to see in a team.

Missed draft opportunities generally distinguish the really good teams from the bad or mediocre ones. It's no secret that I was unhappy when Flip passed on McCollum, but it got worse that draft when the Wolves took Bazz over Giannis and then sold the first-round pick they could have used on Gobert. Yet, Flip left Thibodeau with ample assets and opportunities to build around a young future Hall-of-farmer named Karl Anthony Towns along with Wiggins. Thibodeau's poor coaching led to another great draft opportunity that he used on a short-term jump start to get Butler. Imagine if the Wolves had kept the #7 pick and used it on Mitchell. The Jazz thought so much of him that they traded up to get him. But Thibodeau was obsessed with getting his boy Butler. Thibodeau gave up his best 3-point shooter in that Butler deal and then squandered the pick he received with Butler when he could have drafted John Collins or Anunoby. Meanwhile, Thibodeau gave Gorgui a huge contract that no other team in the NBA will take without a hefty ransom and gave Wiggins a max contract that dwarfs his real on-court value. Thibodeau couldn't keep Belly and now Belly is flourishing in Sacramento.

Management and coaching matter. Thibodeau had success as a head coach in Chicago, but I knew from the beginning he was the wrong fit for this team in this era. Thibodeau hadn't even worked in a front office, much less led one, so I knew at the time that giving him the PBO position was ridiculous. But giving him both positions takes the cake for an act of colossal stupidity by our owner.

But all the things I've mentioned, even in combination, don't match the level of malfeasance Thibodeau has exhibited in his "handling" of the Butler situation this summer and fall. As Jon K has reported, Thibodeau knew of Butler's discontent at the end of last season and Buter even told him he wanted out back in May or June. Yet, Thibodeau did nothing. Failure to act on serious issues is what gets executives fired instantly when those serious issues explode. One of the great mysteries for me is how Tom Thibodeau is still employed by the Timberwolves organization in any capacity. When my wife complains about how much we spend on season tickets I have to seriously question my continued investment in such a putrid organization.
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crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461] »

Coaching matters.

We dont know what guys like kat and wiggins would look like with a proper coach.

Yeah, they've had a few different coaches, but, i doubt any of you would consider mitchell and thibs as good coaches.

Blatt was my first choice, but i didn't object to thibs. I really underestimated his inability to relate to players. I thought he would showcase to the strengths of guys like kat, wiggs, and rubio. Alas, thibs was simply too stubborn to adapt. So he needed his guys, and dropped everyone else down a few pegs or off the team.

Give me an atkinson, bud, joerger, or anyone else. Im tired of thibs and his handling of the team. He is shitting on all the younger guys to appease the one guy that doesn't want to be here.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

I know a lot of this is wishful thinking, but does anyone else think Thibs will be gone before the next home game? A 4-9 record after a disastrous winless road trip along with the Butler situation has to be too much for Glen to accept. I'll give it a 40% chance interim coach Ryan Saunders will be in Thibs' place by the Nets game.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

The thing I like about Sacramento is they have a very clear identity: They play really, really fast. It's fun for the players and the fans. And those fans in Sacramento deserve some of the success they are having. It's the identity I wish we would have had (and should have had!) when Rubio and LaVine were our starting back court. A PG that can't shoot? A SG that can't defend? No problem, just run people out of the gym and hide their weaknesses while playing to their strengths. Mmmm, sounds like something a good coach would do.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

longstrangetrip wrote:I know a lot of this is wishful thinking, but does anyone else think Thibs will be gone before the next home game? A 4-9 record after a disastrous winless road trip along with the Butler situation has to be too much for Glen to accept. I'll give it a 40% chance interim coach Ryan Saunders will be in Thibs' place by the Nets game.


I think Glen is clueless at this point. Thibs and Butler should have been gone weeks ago, so I have no faith that he's going to get off his hands and do something. How can he be so damn naive? My understanding is that they are having to throw money at people to get them to buy tickets.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

longstrangetrip wrote:
Q12543 wrote:The only bright spot to me in this game was Okogie's defense on Hield. The rest of his game sucked, but as long as he was guarding Hield, Buddy was a non-factor.

That's good to hear, becasue he is clearly not performing on offense like a 1st round pick...2 for 7 last night with only 2 rebounds, 1 assist and no steals or blocks in 27 minutes. He's now shooting 36 % (23% on 3's) with more turnovers than assists. Robson the other day: "Okogie keeps gushing about confidence his teammates have in him, telling him to shoot. He should stop listening." I agree. Love the kid on defense, but he needs to know his limitations on offense.

I've been on vacation with no access to the games during this horrible road trip, and I feel quite fortunate. Sounds like Butler is putting no effort in on defense, and that would be tough to watch. Meanwhile though, he seems to be the only T-Wolf who knows how to get the ball to a teammate for a basket...he had 8 of our 20 assists last night.


It's so frustrating. We can't seem to catch a break when we draft some of these guys. Okogie was a solid college shooter, but he comes to Minnesota and suddenly he can't buy a hoop outside of the paint. He is such a good defender that all he has to do is hit those open corner 3s. But alas, we can never seem to draft two-way players. It's always only one.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

Q12543 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:I know a lot of this is wishful thinking, but does anyone else think Thibs will be gone before the next home game? A 4-9 record after a disastrous winless road trip along with the Butler situation has to be too much for Glen to accept. I'll give it a 40% chance interim coach Ryan Saunders will be in Thibs' place by the Nets game.


I think Glen is clueless at this point. Thibs and Butler should have been gone weeks ago, so I have no faith that he's going to get off his hands and do something. How can he be so damn naive? My understanding is that they are having to throw money at people to get them to buy tickets.

Yep, they have gone to 2 for 1 tickets sales earlier than ever before. I agree that Glen does seem clueless in this entire manner, but he also hasn't hesitated to make early season coaching changes in the past when he was dissatisfied (correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Casey and McHale both early season firings?). The last home crowd was about 50% filled and Glen hates to lose money, and he knows a 4-9 record isn't going to bring the fans in. That's why my guess is we have some Thibs news in the next 2 days.
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MikeAz [enjin:6636981]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by MikeAz [enjin:6636981] »

longstrangetrip wrote:I know a lot of this is wishful thinking, but does anyone else think Thibs will be gone before the next home game? A 4-9 record after a disastrous winless road trip along with the Butler situation has to be too much for Glen to accept. I'll give it a 40% chance interim coach Ryan Saunders will be in Thibs' place by the Nets game.
That would be fantastic. They are really becoming a hard team to root for and something needs to be done quickly. I'm not betting on it though.
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crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]
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Re: Wolves VS Mr Big shot (Belly and the Kings)

Post by crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461] »

longstrangetrip wrote:
Q12543 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:I know a lot of this is wishful thinking, but does anyone else think Thibs will be gone before the next home game? A 4-9 record after a disastrous winless road trip along with the Butler situation has to be too much for Glen to accept. I'll give it a 40% chance interim coach Ryan Saunders will be in Thibs' place by the Nets game.


I think Glen is clueless at this point. Thibs and Butler should have been gone weeks ago, so I have no faith that he's going to get off his hands and do something. How can he be so damn naive? My understanding is that they are having to throw money at people to get them to buy tickets.

Yep, they have gone to 2 for 1 tickets sales earlier than ever before. I agree that Glen does seem clueless in this entire manner, but he also hasn't hesitated to make early season coaching changes in the past when he was dissatisfied (correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Casey and McHale both early season firings?). The last home crowd was about 50% filled and Glen hates to lose money, and he knows a 4-9 record isn't going to bring the fans in. That's why my guess is we have some Thibs news in the next 2 days.


Either way taylor going to lose money, but he's going to lose alot more if he lets this butler/thibs fiasco to continue.
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