lipoli390 wrote:If Thibodeau really valued MGH a lot, woudn't he have given him more playing time? If Thibs saw Jefferson as his type of player, why didn't he play him at all? Either he doesn't value them a whole lot or he does but can't get himself as head coach to step outside his comfort zone of big minutes to a relatively small rotation of players he's used to. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the development or discovery of talent.
Im not saying that MGH or Jefferson would/are any good at the NBA level, but traditionally Thibs doesn't like playing younger players.
In his first year with the Bulls, 2nd year player Taj Gibson played 21 minutes a game, Asik played 12 minutes per game, James Johnson played 13 total games at 9 minutes a game before getting traded as a 2nd year player.
In Thibs 2nd year as a head coach, Thibs played one of his favorite players of all time, our own Jimmy Butler a grand total of 42 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 3rd year M. Teague played 48 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 4th year Tony Snell played in 72 games at 12 minutes a game.
In Thibs 5th year Doug Mccdermott played 36 games at 9 minutes a game, Mirotic played in every game at 20 minutes a game.
Thibs 1st year as the Wolves coach Dunn played in 72 games at 17 minutes per game.
Thibs this last year Patton was hurt and MGH played in 42 games at 6 minutes.
So in Thibs whole career he really hasn't played his young guys many minutes. Thibs second best player he has ever had in Butler played in only half the game in 8 minutes a game. Now we can disagree with his philosiphy how he plays young guys. But every player I listed besides M.Teague is still in the league (technically Teague got signed late last year) and all but M.Teague and maybe Doug Mccdermott have developed under thibs to get a big contract and become a quality role player in the league.
So I wouldn't put much stock into Thibs not playing MGH or Jefferson much this year. I am not also saying that those 2 are NBA caliber players but Thibs has a good resume in developing his young players into at least a solid rotation piece in the NBA.
All good points, geek, although only two of all those players you mentioned can be viewed as having developed under Thibodeau. I suspect either one would have developed under any heach coach because of who they are, but there's no way to know that. Yet, Thibodeau's record of developing young players isn't particularly impressive even if you give him some credit for Butler and Taj. However, my main point is that it's almost impossible to develop young player or even know what they can do if you don't play them.
lipoli390 wrote:If Thibodeau really valued MGH a lot, woudn't he have given him more playing time? If Thibs saw Jefferson as his type of player, why didn't he play him at all? Either he doesn't value them a whole lot or he does but can't get himself as head coach to step outside his comfort zone of big minutes to a relatively small rotation of players he's used to. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the development or discovery of talent.
Im not saying that MGH or Jefferson would/are any good at the NBA level, but traditionally Thibs doesn't like playing younger players.
In his first year with the Bulls, 2nd year player Taj Gibson played 21 minutes a game, Asik played 12 minutes per game, James Johnson played 13 total games at 9 minutes a game before getting traded as a 2nd year player.
In Thibs 2nd year as a head coach, Thibs played one of his favorite players of all time, our own Jimmy Butler a grand total of 42 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 3rd year M. Teague played 48 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 4th year Tony Snell played in 72 games at 12 minutes a game.
In Thibs 5th year Doug Mccdermott played 36 games at 9 minutes a game, Mirotic played in every game at 20 minutes a game.
Thibs 1st year as the Wolves coach Dunn played in 72 games at 17 minutes per game.
Thibs this last year Patton was hurt and MGH played in 42 games at 6 minutes.
So in Thibs whole career he really hasn't played his young guys many minutes. Thibs second best player he has ever had in Butler played in only half the game in 8 minutes a game. Now we can disagree with his philosiphy how he plays young guys. But every player I listed besides M.Teague is still in the league (technically Teague got signed late last year) and all but M.Teague and maybe Doug Mccdermott have developed under thibs to get a big contract and become a quality role player in the league.
So I wouldn't put much stock into Thibs not playing MGH or Jefferson much this year. I am not also saying that those 2 are NBA caliber players but Thibs has a good resume in developing his young players into at least a solid rotation piece in the NBA.
All good points, geek, although only two of all those players you mentioned can be viewed as having developed under Thibodeau. I suspect either one would have developed under any heach coach because of who they are, but there's no way to know that. Yet, Thibodeau's record of developing young players isn't particularly impressive even if you give him some credit for Butler and Taj. However, my main point is that it's almost impossible to develop young player or even know what they can do if you don't play them.
A number of coaches including JVG would disagree with you. Many coaches including Thibs say practice is very important to development. At some point though obviously they have to get in and play. Thibs hasn't playing young guys here as the Wolves coach and he has. Heck he played Payne over some legit NBA vets a year ago and...he had his most productive season of his career in that small sample. Tyus could play more this year but he has been the backup PG for this team on a playoff team and ended up basically playing backup PG minutes last year when Dunn was playing SG. If Thibs didn't value these guys at all they wouldn't have even been on the roster they would have signed some other guys. Again we have to see how this plays out if either guy turns out to be any good. We really have no idea.
lipoli390 wrote:If Thibodeau really valued MGH a lot, woudn't he have given him more playing time? If Thibs saw Jefferson as his type of player, why didn't he play him at all? Either he doesn't value them a whole lot or he does but can't get himself as head coach to step outside his comfort zone of big minutes to a relatively small rotation of players he's used to. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the development or discovery of talent.
Im not saying that MGH or Jefferson would/are any good at the NBA level, but traditionally Thibs doesn't like playing younger players.
In his first year with the Bulls, 2nd year player Taj Gibson played 21 minutes a game, Asik played 12 minutes per game, James Johnson played 13 total games at 9 minutes a game before getting traded as a 2nd year player.
In Thibs 2nd year as a head coach, Thibs played one of his favorite players of all time, our own Jimmy Butler a grand total of 42 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 3rd year M. Teague played 48 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 4th year Tony Snell played in 72 games at 12 minutes a game.
In Thibs 5th year Doug Mccdermott played 36 games at 9 minutes a game, Mirotic played in every game at 20 minutes a game.
Thibs 1st year as the Wolves coach Dunn played in 72 games at 17 minutes per game.
Thibs this last year Patton was hurt and MGH played in 42 games at 6 minutes.
So in Thibs whole career he really hasn't played his young guys many minutes. Thibs second best player he has ever had in Butler played in only half the game in 8 minutes a game. Now we can disagree with his philosiphy how he plays young guys. But every player I listed besides M.Teague is still in the league (technically Teague got signed late last year) and all but M.Teague and maybe Doug Mccdermott have developed under thibs to get a big contract and become a quality role player in the league.
So I wouldn't put much stock into Thibs not playing MGH or Jefferson much this year. I am not also saying that those 2 are NBA caliber players but Thibs has a good resume in developing his young players into at least a solid rotation piece in the NBA.
All good points, geek, although only two of all those players you mentioned can be viewed as having developed under Thibodeau. I suspect either one would have developed under any heach coach because of who they are, but there's no way to know that. Yet, Thibodeau's record of developing young players isn't particularly impressive even if you give him some credit for Butler and Taj. However, my main point is that it's almost impossible to develop young player or even know what they can do if you don't play them.
This is where we are going to disagree, what is totally fine. Thibs developed a very young Bulls team and lead them to a title contender but they continued to run into injuries and the best player in the last 20 years of basketball in LBJ.
I feel like Butler, Taj, Asik by far have had their best seasons under thibs. Now you can fault thibs for his faults on developing players for the Wolves but I am not going to take anything away from what he did for the Bulls, he got players paid big bucks. He should get credit for that. We can argue about his philosophy but it was very successful for him in the past.
lipoli390 wrote:If Thibodeau really valued MGH a lot, woudn't he have given him more playing time? If Thibs saw Jefferson as his type of player, why didn't he play him at all? Either he doesn't value them a whole lot or he does but can't get himself as head coach to step outside his comfort zone of big minutes to a relatively small rotation of players he's used to. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the development or discovery of talent.
Im not saying that MGH or Jefferson would/are any good at the NBA level, but traditionally Thibs doesn't like playing younger players.
In his first year with the Bulls, 2nd year player Taj Gibson played 21 minutes a game, Asik played 12 minutes per game, James Johnson played 13 total games at 9 minutes a game before getting traded as a 2nd year player.
In Thibs 2nd year as a head coach, Thibs played one of his favorite players of all time, our own Jimmy Butler a grand total of 42 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 3rd year M. Teague played 48 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 4th year Tony Snell played in 72 games at 12 minutes a game.
In Thibs 5th year Doug Mccdermott played 36 games at 9 minutes a game, Mirotic played in every game at 20 minutes a game.
Thibs 1st year as the Wolves coach Dunn played in 72 games at 17 minutes per game.
Thibs this last year Patton was hurt and MGH played in 42 games at 6 minutes.
So in Thibs whole career he really hasn't played his young guys many minutes. Thibs second best player he has ever had in Butler played in only half the game in 8 minutes a game. Now we can disagree with his philosiphy how he plays young guys. But every player I listed besides M.Teague is still in the league (technically Teague got signed late last year) and all but M.Teague and maybe Doug Mccdermott have developed under thibs to get a big contract and become a quality role player in the league.
So I wouldn't put much stock into Thibs not playing MGH or Jefferson much this year. I am not also saying that those 2 are NBA caliber players but Thibs has a good resume in developing his young players into at least a solid rotation piece in the NBA.
All good points, geek, although only two of all those players you mentioned can be viewed as having developed under Thibodeau. I suspect either one would have developed under any heach coach because of who they are, but there's no way to know that. Yet, Thibodeau's record of developing young players isn't particularly impressive even if you give him some credit for Butler and Taj. However, my main point is that it's almost impossible to develop young player or even know what they can do if you don't play them.
A number of coaches including JVG would disagree with you. Many coaches including Thibs say practice is very important to development. At some point though obviously they have to get in and play. Thibs hasn't playing young guys here as the Wolves coach and he has. Heck he played Payne over some legit NBA vets a year ago and...he had his most productive season of his career in that small sample. Tyus could play more this year but he has been the backup PG for this team on a playoff team and ended up basically playing backup PG minutes last year when Dunn was playing SG. If Thibs didn't value these guys at all they wouldn't have even been on the roster they would have signed some other guys. Again we have to see how this plays out if either guy turns out to be any good. We really have no idea.
If he values them he should play them. If he doesn't play them we'll never know how good they can be and eventually they'll leave. We may disagree, but I'll leave it at that.
lipoli390 wrote:If Thibodeau really valued MGH a lot, woudn't he have given him more playing time? If Thibs saw Jefferson as his type of player, why didn't he play him at all? Either he doesn't value them a whole lot or he does but can't get himself as head coach to step outside his comfort zone of big minutes to a relatively small rotation of players he's used to. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the development or discovery of talent.
Im not saying that MGH or Jefferson would/are any good at the NBA level, but traditionally Thibs doesn't like playing younger players.
In his first year with the Bulls, 2nd year player Taj Gibson played 21 minutes a game, Asik played 12 minutes per game, James Johnson played 13 total games at 9 minutes a game before getting traded as a 2nd year player.
In Thibs 2nd year as a head coach, Thibs played one of his favorite players of all time, our own Jimmy Butler a grand total of 42 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 3rd year M. Teague played 48 games at 8 minutes a game.
In Thibs 4th year Tony Snell played in 72 games at 12 minutes a game.
In Thibs 5th year Doug Mccdermott played 36 games at 9 minutes a game, Mirotic played in every game at 20 minutes a game.
Thibs 1st year as the Wolves coach Dunn played in 72 games at 17 minutes per game.
Thibs this last year Patton was hurt and MGH played in 42 games at 6 minutes.
So in Thibs whole career he really hasn't played his young guys many minutes. Thibs second best player he has ever had in Butler played in only half the game in 8 minutes a game. Now we can disagree with his philosiphy how he plays young guys. But every player I listed besides M.Teague is still in the league (technically Teague got signed late last year) and all but M.Teague and maybe Doug Mccdermott have developed under thibs to get a big contract and become a quality role player in the league.
So I wouldn't put much stock into Thibs not playing MGH or Jefferson much this year. I am not also saying that those 2 are NBA caliber players but Thibs has a good resume in developing his young players into at least a solid rotation piece in the NBA.
All good points, geek, although only two of all those players you mentioned can be viewed as having developed under Thibodeau. I suspect either one would have developed under any heach coach because of who they are, but there's no way to know that. Yet, Thibodeau's record of developing young players isn't particularly impressive even if you give him some credit for Butler and Taj. However, my main point is that it's almost impossible to develop young player or even know what they can do if you don't play them.
A number of coaches including JVG would disagree with you. Many coaches including Thibs say practice is very important to development. At some point though obviously they have to get in and play. Thibs hasn't playing young guys here as the Wolves coach and he has. Heck he played Payne over some legit NBA vets a year ago and...he had his most productive season of his career in that small sample. Tyus could play more this year but he has been the backup PG for this team on a playoff team and ended up basically playing backup PG minutes last year when Dunn was playing SG. If Thibs didn't value these guys at all they wouldn't have even been on the roster they would have signed some other guys. Again we have to see how this plays out if either guy turns out to be any good. We really have no idea.
If he values them he should play them. If he doesn't play them we'll never know how good they can be and eventually they'll leave. We may disagree, but I'll leave it at that.
Lip actually we both agree that our philosophy is to give young guys some playing time. My point was that some coaches would say that's not the only way to develop guys which I think ultimately you would agree with also but we would like to see them get more time on the floor heck even if it's garbage time. I've been pretty consistent in saying my biggest criticism of Thibs is not playing some guys more minutes giving them an opportunity. Like I said ultimately time will tell if the process Thibs and his staff use develops some players or not. Tyus Jones is the guy that gives me hope. He is a young guy that isn't the Uber talent and Thibs plays him (we wish it was more but he plays him) and he has improved.
