Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Wolves starting five all ended up with a positive +/- or 0. The supposed star core (Towns, Wiggins, LaVine) played pretty well, all things considered. If we're looking for a silver lining, there's one... And we didn't hurt our ping pong chances.

It might have been the worst game I've seen from Towns. He looked pedestrian for him tonight.

He played the most minutes out of our guys (40) and still ended up with 14 pts, 15 reb, 5 ast, 2 blk. If that's his floor, I think we'll win a lot of games in the future. I also think he needs to shoot more than 12 times (Wiggins needs to shoot more than 11).

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Wolves starting five all ended up with a positive +/- or 0. The supposed star core (Towns, Wiggins, LaVine) played pretty well, all things considered. If we're looking for a silver lining, there's one... And we didn't hurt our ping pong chances.

It might have been the worst game I've seen from Towns. He looked pedestrian for him tonight.

He played the most minutes out of our guys (40) and still ended up with 14 pts, 15 reb, 5 ast, 2 blk. If that's his floor, I think we'll win a lot of games in the future. I also think he needs to shoot more than 12 times (Wiggins needs to shoot more than 11).

I was thinking the same thing. And yeah his numbers were okay, but he didn't play much defense tonight.

I have the rep for instigating Rubio threads yet I haven't started one or barely commented on one in a minute . But the Ricky discussions continue without me!

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:John Wall's TS%: 51.6%
Ricky Rubio's TS%: 51.5%

Does John Wall hurt his offense too, or is Ricky Rubio's woes scoring the basketball super overrated? Personally, I think it's the latter. Interesting statistic that the Wolves broadcast brought up and compared to other high profile PGs in the NBA.

John Wall takes 10 more shots per game. This argument is ridiculous. Ricky pads his stats by shooting a high number of free throws relative to his regular shots taken. If Ricky took 10 more regular shots a game his percentage would tank because he's such a horrible shooter. 51.6% on 17.5 shots or 51.5% on 7.6 shots. Gee, I wonder who's having a bigger impact on the game? I think the guy dropping 20/10 is having a little bit better of a season than the guy dropping 10/9. That's just my opinion though.

Minnesota offensive rating with Ricky on the court - 105.9
Washington Offensive rating with Wall on the court - 103.6

Shouldn't a PG be judged largely by how his team does when he's on the court? It looks to me that Ricky runs a more efficient offense than John Wall does.

That being said, I do agree that Wall poses a much more imposing threat to defenses and definitely creates opportunities for his team mates as a result. But the fact is when he does shoot - and he shoots quite a lot - he's not very efficient. And that's not good for the offense. Perhaps he should look to pass more.

Do you think if we swapped Ricky for Wall our offense would get worse even though Wall scores more, gets more assists and is more efficient (even if it is by a small margin)?

Did not see any of this game tonight but glancing at the box score it looks like Tyus, Bazz and the other scrubs we have left got owned. Beyond that we're going to have a tough time beating anybody when Ricky leads the team in scoring (unless he has a career night) or when KAT and Wiggins combine for 31 points.

As much as I'd like to see them finish strong, any loss at this point is a good one. Just means it's more likely Mitchell is gone, and less likely we will catch the teams slightly ahead of us in the standings.

As most know... I'm somewhere in the middle with Rubio.

But these Rubio = Wall comparisons are giving me the heebie jeebies much like the old Rubio > Westbrook discussions.

Sorry guys, but I'm 100% convinced 30 NBA GMs are taking Wall over Rubio and not thinking twice. And I'm pretty damn sure 99% of NBA fans are doing the same.

Here we are touting the virtues of TS% and team offensive ratings and suddenly dismissing a guy averaging 20/10? Wall didn't play a great game tonight, but I thought his importance to that team was still pretty clear, specifically driving and kicking. He puts so much pressure on the opposition, it leads to a lot of great looks for teammates.

[Note: To be fair, I don't think all those NBA GMs are super duper bright about everything... but still...]

I'll clarify my point regarding the TS%... I just wanted to post a stat that was displayed during tonight's broadcast that caught my eye. I don't think Rubio's scoring hinders this team like it gets played out to and his efficiency gets brought up more than his volume. So, it was interesting that he's right around John Wall's mark this year.

I am also not saying that Wall < Rubio. It wasn't too long ago that the doper and I talked about elite point guards in the NBA and I had him in my top-five (along with Curry, Westbrook, Paul and Lillard). I'm a huge Wall fan and have been for a while. I do think Rubio has a huge, positive impact on the offense he's running, as does Wall. I do think Rubio outplayed Wall tonight, evident by a number of single game stats. I do think that Rubio's getting to the point where he's underrated by most people. I'm also 100% sure that fans that don't watch Rubio nightly cannot understand how big his presence is on the court, so, I don't really give a shit about what fans of other teams think of him, to say it nicely.

Camden wrote:I'll clarify my point regarding the TS%... I just wanted to post a stat that was displayed during tonight's broadcast that caught my eye. I don't think Rubio's scoring hinders this team like it gets played out to and his efficiency gets brought up more than his volume. So, it was interesting that he's right around John Wall's mark this year.

I am also not saying that Wall < Rubio. It wasn't too long ago that the doper and I talked about elite point guards in the NBA and I had him in my top-five (along with Curry, Westbrook, Paul and Lillard). I'm a huge Wall fan and have been for a while. I do think Rubio has a huge, positive impact on the offense he's running, as does Wall. I do think Rubio outplayed Wall tonight, evident by a number of single game stats. I do think that Rubio's getting to the point where he's underrated by most people. I'm also 100% sure that fans that don't watch Rubio nightly cannot understand how big his presence is on the court, so, I don't really give a shit about what fans of other teams think of him, to say it nicely.

That's fair. My point was that we're not watching John Wall day-in, day-out either.

And I think as fans of the team, we tend to overvalue the players we watch and root for. For example, you can find dozens of very positive posts or threads about Rubio, Towns, Wiggins, LaVine, Muhammad, Dieng, et al. Even last year. And the year before. And the year before... you get the point. Heck, people humped the legs of guys like D. Milicic, M. Beasley and R. McCants regularly.

Yet the team sucks balls every year with all these better than average players. While I agree that people watching from afar can't truly appreciate the Ricky experience... I think it's myopic to think he's the only PG out there like that. And that outside this forum, I can't imagine anybody even floating the idea that they're equals.

Q12543 wrote:Two offensive plays that should never be run: 1) Pin down action to free up Bazz for 18-footers. Why!? He belongs in the post, curls into the lane, or corner 3s. There is zero reason to run that play - ever; and 2) Payne post-ups. Again, that should be illegal in not only the contiguous 48, but ALL territory affiliated with the United States. So that includes places like Puerto Rico.

Harumph....

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:I'll clarify my point regarding the TS%... I just wanted to post a stat that was displayed during tonight's broadcast that caught my eye. I don't think Rubio's scoring hinders this team like it gets played out to and his efficiency gets brought up more than his volume. So, it was interesting that he's right around John Wall's mark this year.

I am also not saying that Wall < Rubio. It wasn't too long ago that the doper and I talked about elite point guards in the NBA and I had him in my top-five (along with Curry, Westbrook, Paul and Lillard). I'm a huge Wall fan and have been for a while. I do think Rubio has a huge, positive impact on the offense he's running, as does Wall. I do think Rubio outplayed Wall tonight, evident by a number of single game stats. I do think that Rubio's getting to the point where he's underrated by most people. I'm also 100% sure that fans that don't watch Rubio nightly cannot understand how big his presence is on the court, so, I don't really give a shit about what fans of other teams think of him, to say it nicely.

That's fair. My point was that we're not watching John Wall day-in, day-out either.

And I think as fans of the team, we tend to overvalue the players we watch and root for. For example, you can find dozens of very positive posts or threads about Rubio, Towns, Wiggins, LaVine, Muhammad, Dieng, et al. Even last year. And the year before. And the year before... you get the point. Heck, people humped the legs of guys like D. Milicic, M. Beasley and R. McCants regularly.

Yet the team sucks balls every year with all these better than average players. While I agree that people watching from afar can't truly appreciate the Ricky experience... I think it's myopic to think he's the only PG out there like that. And that outside this forum, I can't imagine anybody even floating the idea that they're equals.

I am in agreement with cam, I know wall is better