Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:Here is a composite of where Ricky ranks this season versus other starting PGs in various advanced stats:

RPM (a plus-minus type stat that Team Ricky loves) - 5th
EWA ( a Hollinger box-score stat that Khans loves) - 13th
PER - 12th
WS/48 - 11th
Wins Produced - 6th
VORP - 10th
BPM - 11th

I can't think of any others. Of course Team Ricky is using the stat the most generous to Ricky and Khans is using a stat that is one of the least generous to Ricky (yet still not bad).

But the one common theme is that every single one has him placed in the upper half of starting PGs.

I don't know what most of those stats mean. For example... Rubio is one of the best in the league at "wins produced" but the team is 17 - 37.

As I noted earlier, wouldn't this mean that the rest of the team is fucking terrible? I mean we have a facilitating, all-world defensive PG... but the team still loses 2x more than it wins and is near the very bottom of the league on defense.

Get your act together every other Wolves player.


[Note: As I have said for years now... I'm fine with Rubio on this team right now. I like him. He's fun. And he's not the main reason the team is losing games. But if it's not clear for everybody that after 4+ seasons he's unable to win many games without a ton of help... I don't think it will ever be. Hopefully, with Wiggins' and Towns' development, the Wolves can buck the recent NBA trend and become a powerhouse with a primary ballhandler like Rubio.]

Rubio is +1 per 100 possesions while on the floor. Team is -9 per 100 possesions when he's off the court.

Why does Rubio get blamed when the team is above average when he's on the floor and is absolutely atrocious every time he steps out of the floor? The team doesn't win because whenever Ricky goes out, we get bummed.

When did Ricky Rubio became the #1 reason for the Wolves losing?

Has anybody ever made that claim?



[Note: Everybody knows it's Thad Young's fault that the Wolves have only 17 wins.]

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Here is a composite of where Ricky ranks this season versus other starting PGs in various advanced stats:

RPM (a plus-minus type stat that Team Ricky loves) - 5th
EWA ( a Hollinger box-score stat that Khans loves) - 13th
PER - 12th
WS/48 - 11th
Wins Produced - 6th
VORP - 10th
BPM - 11th

I can't think of any others. Of course Team Ricky is using the stat the most generous to Ricky and Khans is using a stat that is one of the least generous to Ricky (yet still not bad).

But the one common theme is that every single one has him placed in the upper half of starting PGs.

I don't know what most of those stats mean. For example... Rubio is one of the best in the league at "wins produced" but the team is 17 - 37.

As I noted earlier, wouldn't this mean that the rest of the team is fucking terrible? I mean we have a facilitating, all-world defensive PG... but the team still loses 2x more than it wins and is near the very bottom of the league on defense.

Get your act together every other Wolves player.


[Note: As I have said for years now... I'm fine with Rubio on this team right now. I like him. He's fun. And he's not the main reason the team is losing games. But if it's not clear for everybody that after 4+ seasons he's unable to win many games without a ton of help... I don't think it will ever be. Hopefully, with Wiggins' and Towns' development, the Wolves can buck the recent NBA trend and become a powerhouse with a primary ballhandler like Rubio.]

Abe, There are real numbers and real results behind everyone of those stats, either based on how the team performs while the player is on the floor or individual box score stuff. The only difference is what emphasis is placed on what component. And since there is no "perfect" stat, I find it helpful to aggregate them. You can wave them off as inscrutable (i.e. "I don't even know what that means!"), but just because you feel that way doesn't actually make them that way. Advanced stats in aggregate paint a fairly accurate picture of a player as somewhere in the middle of the extremes IMO.

This picture paints Rubio as an above average starting PG. So yeah, he needs a lot of help to win games. So does Mike Conley. So does Jeff Teague. So does Tony Parker.

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Here is a composite of where Ricky ranks this season versus other starting PGs in various advanced stats:

RPM (a plus-minus type stat that Team Ricky loves) - 5th
EWA ( a Hollinger box-score stat that Khans loves) - 13th
PER - 12th
WS/48 - 11th
Wins Produced - 6th
VORP - 10th
BPM - 11th

I can't think of any others. Of course Team Ricky is using the stat the most generous to Ricky and Khans is using a stat that is one of the least generous to Ricky (yet still not bad).

But the one common theme is that every single one has him placed in the upper half of starting PGs.

I don't know what most of those stats mean. For example... Rubio is one of the best in the league at "wins produced" but the team is 17 - 37.

As I noted earlier, wouldn't this mean that the rest of the team is fucking terrible? I mean we have a facilitating, all-world defensive PG... but the team still loses 2x more than it wins and is near the very bottom of the league on defense.

Get your act together every other Wolves player.


[Note: As I have said for years now... I'm fine with Rubio on this team right now. I like him. He's fun. And he's not the main reason the team is losing games. But if it's not clear for everybody that after 4+ seasons he's unable to win many games without a ton of help... I don't think it will ever be. Hopefully, with Wiggins' and Towns' development, the Wolves can buck the recent NBA trend and become a powerhouse with a primary ballhandler like Rubio.]

Abe, There are real numbers and real results behind everyone of those stats, either based on how the team performs while the player is on the floor or individual box score stuff. The only difference is what emphasis is placed on what component. And since there is no "perfect" stat, I find it helpful to aggregate them. You can wave them off as inscrutable (i.e. "I don't even know what that means!"), but just because you feel that way doesn't actually make them that way. Advanced stats in aggregate paint a fairly accurate picture of a player as somewhere in the middle of the extremes IMO.

This picture paints Rubio as an above average starting PG. So yeah, he needs a lot of help to win games. So does Mike Conley. So does Jeff Teague. So does Tony Parker.

I wasn't necessarily being satirical with that comment. I genuinely don't know what some of those metrics are. There are so so many of them out there right now.

I don't know how many times I can write "Ricky is not the problem right now" or "I like Rubio" before every little observation about him doesn't receive backlash...

... my point was that if Rubio is as good as advertised by those who love him much more than me... just how bad is the rest of the team? Jeff Teague has played on only one losing team in his career (38 - 44). Never with Parker, obviously. And Conley is on a run of at least 40 wins for 7 straight seasons. Do good teams make those guys better than they really are? Vice versa? Something in-between?

I've mentioned that the Wolves are the worst franchise in modern NBA history. Is this simply another way to support it? Once again... I don't think Rubio is the problem. I just don't see where he's the solution either.


[Note: I think my snarkiness (real or perceived) comes from comments I've seen for years about his Kidd-like impact/ability or blaming his teammates for every missed assist opportunity or his imaginary improvement from year to year.]

Rumor: Timberwolves making Ricky Rubio available at trade deadline

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/02/15/rumor-timberwolves-making-ricky-rubio-available-at-trade-deadline/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

I think it is fair to make him available. I think along with Shabazz and Dieng you don't trade him to trade him like you do Martin. I would need either a better PG that is under 30 or a younger PG that has more potential along the lines of Exum and Russell.

bleedspeed177 wrote:Rumor: Timberwolves making Ricky Rubio available at trade deadline

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/02/15/rumor-timberwolves-making-ricky-rubio-available-at-trade-deadline/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Interesting.
Everybody knows Rubio is polarizing. Obviously. But IF this rumor is true, what does it tell us under the surface?

- Is it a way to entice a specific coach that digs a different type of PG? Because what if the new coach they hire really digs good defensive and facilitating PGs over mercurial scoring PGs... you can always trade Rubio later. But the team won't be able to get somebody like him easily.
- Do the Wolves think they can get more for him now than this summer?
- Is it a way to dip deeper into the morass of bottom feeders in the Western Conference? Like him or not, Rubio helps this Wolves team more than he hurts it.

Abe - I think we hang it out there and get a feelers for the summer. If you get a coach that he doesn't work with you have an idea of his value. If the Wolves play good down the stretch it will be because of Rubio and the improvement of the young guns. I think his value goes up. I think we have to get the perfect bounty for him to make a move. I am kind of in the camp of keep him. Draft a big with the 1st pick, draft a midget pg in the second to compete with Jones, and sign a FA 3&D guy. Crap we would still need a backup PG. I would offer Martin to Pacers for Joseph Young and give him some burn the rest of the year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2528386/joe-young

Shumway wrote:Alright, I've got a genuine question for everyone. Cool, I'd be particularly interested in your response given your coaching background and your view that you cannot win consistently (in the playoffs) with a primary ballhandler who is not a threat to score.

And this is a genuine question because I don't know the answer. It's not a leading question where I'm implying that Ricky's flaws are not an issue.

How does Ricky generate Free Throws at a moderate rate given that he's such a poor shooter and a poor finisher at the rim? I can really understand the theory that in late game situations, opposition coaches should be forcing Rubio to beat us with outside shooting. But surely opposition teams should be instructed not to foul Ricky, because it gets him out of jail. With his ballhandling, is he just able to get to such dangerous spots more consistently, that the defence is forced to treat him as a threat? Is that sufficient to keep the defence honest and offset his poor shooting (at least to a large degree)? Or is it something that gets coached and prepared for during a 7 game series?

Quite a few questions in there in the end.

Ricky is very good at drawing fouls. It's a skill he has developed very well. But one thing you should look at is his 3 point play opportunities per shooting foul drawn. And then compare that to what Wiggins does, and you will see part of the problem. Also keep in mind that at the end of games officials tend to swallow their whistles a little bit. What was a foul in the middle of the 2nd quarter often isn't a foul in the 4th quarter when the refs want the players to decide the game. But trust me, in a 7 game series NBA coaches are going to force Ricky to beat them from the outside. If he can't develop the ability to make clutch outside shots, it is going to be very difficult to have him on the floor.

I don't believe the report. It's not credible for two reasons. First, it was reported by the New York Daily News. Second, it makes no sense to trade a key asset like Ricky before we hire our long-term PBO and head coach. Of course, this is Glen Taylor so I suppose the Wolves doing something that makes no sense doesn't necessarily make the story unbelievable. But it is the New York Daily News.